Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 8)

[lesliec]

Just while we've strayed onto torches for a while - Cooking Issues (if you can get into it - it's been intermittent for me this morning) has an article on a gadget to put over the end of a blowtorch to slightly diffuse the intense heat. Good results, from the sound of it.

[evanrobinson]

Argh little food safety question here--

I had a lamb neck with some thyme, rosemary and butter in my sousvide demi for the past 50 hours. Well, idiot me, getting ready for a job needed to charge some equipment and accidentally unplugged the demi. DAMN! I woke up this morning to see my water bath was down at 80 degrees, clearly in the danger zone, but here is my question; the food was already thoroughly "cooked" having been in a water bath at 145F (roughly 62.5 C for people who think that way), and was still in a vacuum package, not out in the counter. Have I lost it to bacteria? Or is it safe to eat since it was already cooked, and was probably only at the danger zone temps for about 6 hours while I was sleeping?

[OliverB]

I recently read an article on eater where the author shows how to get "restaurant style" sear on his SV steak. Somewhat similar approach to mine, high heat, sear, flip, sear, but also use the torch at the same time. But he also uses oil and butter in the pan, after the meat is rested for a couple min he heats that oil/butter up again and pours it over the steak, getting a sizzle and crust. Sounded good, so I tried it, but I'm not sure I'll do so again. I use very little to no oil for the sear, maybe rub a bit fat I cut off the steak around in the pan, as the high heat burns the oil. It certainly burned the butter and oil last night, with an unpleasant smell - well, like burnt oil.

Doing this sear with oil and butter seems to need a lot lower heat than what I had, I heated the pan for quite a bit on high and had the butter at room temp. and seared for a min or two, but that was enough time to burn the oil and butter mix beyond something I'd want to use.

I think I'll stick to my high heat no or very little fat/oil method. Anybody else try or use this oil/butter mix with success?

How do you avoid the butter burning to black?

[nickrey]

You could use clarified butter or ghee which both have previously removed the elements that burn.

[PedroG]

Or use rice bran oil with a smoke point around 247°C.

[nickrey]

Or use rice bran oil with a smoke point around 247°C.

I'm not sure this would give the butter flavour though.

[OliverB]

I think I'll have to order that rice bran oil, never saw it in any store and I've looked. Good idea though. Ghee too, actually have some.

[paulpegg]

I recently read an article on eater where the author shows how to get "restaurant style" sear on his SV steak. Somewhat similar approach to mine, high heat, sear, flip, sear, but also use the torch at the same time. But he also uses oil and butter in the pan, after the meat is rested for a couple min he heats that oil/butter up again and pours it over the steak, getting a sizzle and crust. Sounded good, so I tried it, but I'm not sure I'll do so again. I use very little to no oil for the sear, maybe rub a bit fat I cut off the steak around in the pan, as the high heat burns the oil. It certainly burned the butter and oil last night, with an unpleasant smell - well, like burnt oil.

Doing this sear with oil and butter seems to need a lot lower heat than what I had, I heated the pan for quite a bit on high and had the butter at room temp. and seared for a min or two, but that was enough time to burn the oil and butter mix beyond something I'd want to use.

I think I'll stick to my high heat no or very little fat/oil method. Anybody else try or use this oil/butter mix with success?

How do you avoid the butter burning to black?

Your heat was much too high if the butter turned black which occurs at about 300F. Using clarified butter or ghee will work a little higher but rice bran oil will smoke at 415F (213C). If you put butter in that hot a pan it will burn almost instantly..I generally sear steaks, that have been patted dry, in a smoking hot dry pan for about 45 seconds on each side.. Soybean oil has the highest smoke point at 495F (257C).

[Okanagancook]

Safflower oil's smoke point looks like one of the highest at 509 F

Good information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_oil

[pbear]

Just while we've strayed onto torches for a while - Cooking Issues (if you can get into it - it's been intermittent for me this morning) has an article on a gadget to put over the end of a blowtorch to slightly diffuse the intense heat. Good results, from the sound of it.

Very interesting. (BTW, here's a direct link to the blog entry, which should be a more stable bookmark in the long run.) The gadget is only a prototype, though, so who knows long it will be (if ever) before it's brought to market. And not easily fabricated, it seems to me, as a DIY project.

Meanwhile, what I find helps with a torch (recently started using propylene, aka Map Pro) is to keep a bit away from the product, move around a lot and do the job in three passes. Seems to avoid torch taste pretty well for long-cooked meats (my main use of sous vide). Haven't had as much success with gentle stuff like chicken skin. For that, the gadget looks like it would be wizard.

[nickrey]

I like the concept of using it to make egg shells more easy to peel off. This may solve my frustrations with sous vide quail eggs.

[EnriqueB]

I like the concept of using it to make egg shells more easy to peel off. This may solve my frustrations with sous vide quail eggs.

This tecnique appeared in Modernist Cuisine, but I never made it work very successfully, plus it is slow (about two minutes per egg) so it does not escalate well to many eggs. Should anyone have some hint on how to make it work, please share!

[OliverB]

thanks for the other oil tips! Maybe I read the article wrong, but to get a sear you have to get pretty hot - or sear for longer than I'd want to with a SV steak. I'll stick to my dry pan and board dressing, maybe a little olive oil or melted butter on top at times.

[jmasur]

Anyone have any good prawn recipes? Thinking about a surf 'n' turf tomorrow night (about to season the rib eyes).

[nickrey]

Anyone have any good prawn recipes? Thinking about a surf 'n' turf tomorrow night (about to season the rib eyes).

I know this could be heresy in this topic but unless I'm doing a melange of seafood I'll always cook prawns in the traditional manner. In surf and turf most likely over charcoal and simply cooked until they are just translucent. You can't post sear sous vide cooked prawns as that would overcook them horribly and without the sear they are simply too gummy in my opinion.

[EnriqueB]

Anyone have any good prawn recipes? Thinking about a surf 'n' turf tomorrow night (about to season the rib eyes).

I like to cut the head leaving a bit of meat so I can sear it and enjoy the roe. Then peel the tail and cook sous-vide with a bit of butter at 51C for about 15-20 minutes. One of the biggest discoveries of sous-vide, such a sweet, delicate flavor. One degree more and taste and texture start to change, IMO. At about 55C seafood such as prawns release enzymes that change the flavor and texture.

[FeChef]

I have a select/choice grade rib roast im planning to make for easter. I have sous vide rib roasts and chuck roasts before but they were alot smaller and this one is a bit larger (6 bone). I do have a PID controlled rottiserie as well but because this rib roast is on the low choice grade, Im thinking it may benefit from a longer sous vide cook. I was thinking how safe would it be to cook sous vide for 12 hours and finish off in the rottiserie for another 6 hours but not sure what temp to reach in the sous vide and then what temp to set the PID rottiserie? Anyone ever try anything like this, or have any opinions on the matter?

[rotuts]

interesting problem. Id consider the lowest 'safe' temp for the SV, 130 for 8 - 12 if you feel its a tougher cut. balwin states:

Rib-eye or Prime rib roast: 130 8 - 12 hrs. medium - rare

what 'done-ness' are you ultimately looking for? Im not sure what 6 hours on the rotisserie will give you other than a crust and dry the meat out.

love to see pics of your final efforts.

Edited March 25, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[FeChef]

interesting problem. Id consider the lowest 'safe' temp for the SV, 130 for 8 - 12 if you feel its a tougher cut. balwin states:

Rib-eye or Prime rib roast: 130 8 - 12 hrs. medium - rare

what 'done-ness' are you ultimately looking for? Im not sure what 6 hours on the rotisserie will give you other than a crust and dry the meat out.

love to see pics of your final efforts.

135F would be the absolute max i could choke down as the final temp. So that would be 5 degree climb in the rottiserie. Not sure what temp i would need to set the rottiserie at to climb 5 degrees. I would want atleast 1-2 hours to develop a crust. I have some guests that like there beef barely pink so 135F seems to be the middle ground.

[KennethT]

Is it possible to cook/chill the roast? Cook it to 130 for 12 hours SV, then as quick as possible chill to refrig. temp, then a couple hours in the rotisserie to crust/retherm to an internal temp of 120-125... just a thought

[rotuts]

I like the chill idea. it would be important to note that the 'crust' might take a long time to develop on the outside at a low PID rotisserie.

ice the whole thing, with a lot of ice for enough time to them blast it in the rotisserie for that '125' after a rest, partially covered on the cutting board off the heat.

a little blow-torch on the rotisserie wouldnt hurt either!

[jmasur]

Anyone have any good prawn recipes? Thinking about a surf 'n' turf tomorrow night (about to season the rib eyes).

I like to cut the head leaving a bit of meat so I can sear it and enjoy the roe. Then peel the tail and cook sous-vide with a bit of butter at 51C for about 15-20 minutes. One of the biggest discoveries of sous-vide, such a sweet, delicate flavor. One degree more and taste and texture start to change, IMO. At about 55C seafood such as prawns release enzymes that change the flavor and texture.

Thanks. I wish I'd had your response before cooking the prawns. I found two recipes online, one of which called for 125F/51C and the other for 135F/57C. I split the difference at 130F/54C (also the temperature for my steak) for 35 minutes, and while the flavors were excellent (salt, pepper, chipotle chili powder, and garlic powder), the flesh became a bit tough. Next time, 125F/51C it is.

[FeChef]

Is it possible to cook/chill the roast? Cook it to 130 for 12 hours SV, then as quick as possible chill to refrig. temp, then a couple hours in the rotisserie to crust/retherm to an internal temp of 120-125... just a thought

I like the idea of cooking a few days earlier to 130F then quickly chilling in an ice water bath. But would i retherm it back in the sous vide to 125F? or retherm directly in the rottiserie to the target temp of 135F? It seems in that case why not just sous vide to 130F and let it drop 10 degrees before putting it into the rottiserie to climb up to 135F and build a crust.

[FeChef]

a little blow-torch on the rotisserie wouldnt hurt either!

I do use a blow torch alot but the crust and flavor from a blow torch just doesnt come close to the flavor and crust you get from a rottiserie.

....Oh i see, your saying hit it with the torch while on the rottiserie. Good idea, but my blow torch might kill the heating element and warp the inside of the rottiserie if not careful. It gets rediculously hot!

Edited March 25, 2013 by FeChef (log)

[rotuts]

the crust you want is really only a few mm deep. but it takes time to get that so you want the meat to be cool enough so it does not heat up too much past that few mm.

if you really iced it up with a lot of ice for " a bit to be determined " then blasted it very hot on the R to get the crust. most of your meat might be lower that 135.

best of luck!