Best dishwasher

[snowangel]

Oh, and: assuming that I have the home-repair know-how of a chimp, should I pay for installation or give it a go?

If you are replacing (as opposed to installing where there was no dishwasher), it's a piece of cake. Cut the water and power, remove and replace. Although I can even install gas appliances, I did the dishwasher myself with no prior experience and it was simple once I'd "uninstalled" the old dishwasher.

A question: what is Sear's policy on delivery and removal? If they charge for delivery and disposal of the old one, is there a place that sells a similar Whirlpool model that includes delivery and disposal? I know we went to a place for our newer dishwasher (KA) that is considered higher end, but they matched the prices and included delivery and disposal.

[Katie Meadow]

Let me second the suggestion to take some of your dishes with you and see how they fit into the various prongs, dividers, etc., looking not only for height or width but shape. We didn't do this, but we had very few choices, and we got lucky. Our basic wineglasses JUST fit in the upper rack--if they were 1/4 inch taller it would be hopeless. The dividers in our Asko are close together, for the most part, and luckily the shape of our bowls and plates allows us to maximize the number of dishes per load. The dishwasher that was installed in my in-laws' shared beach house looked like it would hold a million dishes, but in fact, when we have xmas eve dinner or T-giving there, and seat at least 15 people, it really doesn't hold nearly as much as it could. The soup-bowls flop all over the place and the prongs are at an awkward angle and too far apart for the dishes. Makes a big difference if your dishes are a "good match" for the design. It will be a source of major frustration on a daily basis if the ultimate capacity is compromised by either design or the shape of your particular dishes.

My previous KA had good capacity, but only lasted half as many years as the KA before that one, which was in fact about 25 or 30 yrs old when it died. The next one lasted more than 15 yrs, but I was told not to expect more than 6 or 8 years from any new model, KA or otherwise. Especially with a household of 4 and heavy use.

We were informed by the place we bought our dishwasher that some models are easier and some are quirkier to install. We also checked the price of our plumber against the price of the outlet's installation and removal. Much better deal to have the store do the installation, and I'm glad I talked my husband out of trying to install it himself. Some models have very specific recommendations for installation, and the Asko we put in was not a slam-dunk in the space set up for the KA.

[snowangel]

My previous KA had good capacity, but only lasted half as many years as the KA before that one, which was in fact about 25 or 30 yrs old when it died.

I have a feeling that the KA we used to have in our old house (some 30 years old), the one you speak of as well as the one Dave the Cook speaks of are/were Hobart KA's. Those dishwashers went/do the distance. Easy to repair, when one is needed.

[Hest88]

Thirding the suggestion to take your dishware into the store. We did so and were really glad we did and even ended up with a different dishwasher than we'd originally planned to buy.

[HungryChris]

Chris,

My 2 cents, as a Kenmore Elite owner with the "turbo Zone" feature:

Frankly, I like it. The model I have is about 3 years old and has a fold down back rack such that you can accomodate both large (think crock pot and braising pot situations) as well as smaller applications for the "turbo zone". Some considerations: There are warnings in the literature not to wash jars with the labels still on as the paper will clog the jets. This tells me that there is no grinder feature that perhaps should be an option. I happen to be a hopeless saver of small jars for impromptu salad dressings , rubs and marinades and wish this was not an issue, but I deal with it. When you opt for the turbo zone feature, the cycle time is pretty long, something I have also grown to accept. I went with the stainless tub, but intend to be in my house for quite a while. In your case, I wouldn't. Perhaps the two things that stand out in my mind the most are these, it gets the dishes and glasses remarkably clean and it is quiet, quiet, quiet! Consumers Guide was right on in those respects.

With regards to installation, I did it myself, but have done others before. Keep in mind that you are probably going to have to replace the hot water shut-off valve as part of the process so it depends on how you feel about that.

HC

Edited October 19, 2009 by HungryChris (log)

[snowangel]

So, Chris, have you made a decision? In my experience, when you think you need a new dishwasher, you need it now (the one in this house when we moved in leaked FROM THE TOP!!). If you've made a decision, do tell, and report back a couple of months from now.

(Oh, and to removing labels from jars. Wet thoughougly a paper towel, "paste" on the label, before it's dry, take the drywalling trowel to it. And, just because it won't chew up wet paper with glue don't assume it doesn't have a grinder thingee.

[Chris Amirault]

Given the advice here, I'm planning to take a boatload of dishes, glassware, and pans to Sears to try out the Kenmore. Will report back.

[snowangel]

Chris, do take the dishes (pick out the most odd sized ones). I was lucky when I bought the dishwasher. They had a demo kitchen, and I used their dishes, plus my oversized things to load it. They looked at me like I was crazy! If it looks like it will fit the bill (in more ways than one!), just buy it. If you are running loads per week, you'll regret having debated the decision to death.

Have you decided to install/replace it yourself?

[Chris Amirault]

I'm still trying to find my inner Tim Taylor. Will also report back.

[Chris Amirault]

Many updates.

We realized that our dishes were getting stains from the exposed rust and had a cup melt on the exposed heating element all in one day, so we decided enough was enough. After much discussion, we agreed on the Kenmore above, so late Wednesday night I went to Sears with a batch of kitchen stuff -- biggest cutting board, Sur le Table roasting pan, a plate, a glass, etc. -- and drew many stares as I loaded 'em all into the dishwasher with ease. It's coming on Saturday.

Earlier that day, I had worked with my dad to see if we could remove the old dishwasher. We got it out about halfway and it was stuck, so we called in a handyman who, for half the price of Sears, will remove the old one and install the new one. He was here yesterday to remove the old one, and I learned why we got stuck: the water feed travels through a semi-rigid copper pipe, and not one of those newer flexible steel encased hoses. We're replacing that connection mechanism when the dishwasher arrives tomorrow.

Meanwhile, as I headed into the second hour of washing the dishes after dinner, I developed a keen sense of appreciation for this particular mechanical wonder.

More soon!

[snowangel]

Many updates.

We realized that our dishes were getting stains from the exposed rust and had a cup melt on the exposed heating element all in one day, so we decided enough was enough. After much discussion, we agreed on the Kenmore above, so late Wednesday night I went to Sears with a batch of kitchen stuff -- biggest cutting board, Sur le Table roasting pan, a plate, a glass, etc. -- and drew many stares as I loaded 'em all into the dishwasher with ease. It's coming on Saturday.

Earlier that day, I had worked with my dad to see if we could remove the old dishwasher. We got it out about halfway and it was stuck, so we called in a handyman who, for half the price of Sears, will remove the old one and install the new one. He was here yesterday to remove the old one, and I learned why we got stuck: the water feed travels through a semi-rigid copper pipe, and not one of those newer flexible steel encased hoses. We're replacing that connection mechanism when the dishwasher arrives tomorrow.

Chris, as I look at the calendar, the new dishwasher should be in and up and running. If so, any reports? How painless was the installation?

Meanwhile, as I headed into the second hour of washing the dishes after dinner, I developed a keen sense of appreciation for this particular mechanical wonder.

More soon!

The only time I like doing dishes is at the cabin, and only because the sink is at a window where I can look at the lake, birds, and daydream. But, every time a kid wants a drink, I remind them that they should have kept track of the glass they were using, and I plan meals with minimal mise dishes.

[Chris Amirault]

So, let's see....

The dishwasher was delivered at 7:58a -- before the 8-10a window! -- and our handyman installed it pretty easily. The insulation around the machine didn't fit into the space, unfortunately, so it had to be discarded. More annoyingly, the installation instructions specify a connector that has to be purchased separately from a Whirlpool shop, which took an extra hour to track down. But that's all behind us now, and the new machine is in and working.

So far, it's a beaut. I keep joking with my wife that the pans, glasses, and dishes all have a strange sparkly quality to them. I've taken a few photographs of the machine itself and will post shortly. But right now we're happy clams.

[mgaretz]

That's very interesting about the insulation not fitting. Never heard of that. It means your DW will be louder (the insulation isn't to keep the heat in).

[GwennP]

Hi everyone - my old Kenmore dishwaher just died - it popped,I smelled something burning, and it was dead. I never liked it because I find it doesn't hold a lot of glasses and it doesn't clean very well. I need a new one, and fast. I've been reading about the Bosch and the Miele, but I don't think either has heated drying. Can anyone recommend a good dishwasher and can anyone tell me about the different drying options out there? I know there is condensation drying but that sounds like wet dishes to me! Thanks all.

[Anna N]

Hi everyone - my old Kenmore dishwaher just died - it popped,I smelled something burning, and it was dead. I never liked it because I find it doesn't hold a lot of glasses and it doesn't clean very well. I need a new one, and fast. I've been reading about the Bosch and the Miele, but I don't think either has heated drying. Can anyone recommend a good dishwasher and can anyone tell me about the different drying options out there? I know there is condensation drying but that sounds like wet dishes to me! Thanks all.

I have a Bosch with no heated drying and except for plastics everything comes out hot and dry. But the best part for me is that nothing gets burned or distorted as it did when I had a heater in other models.

[andiesenji]

I also now have a Bosch and it cleans very well and it does not take long for dishes to dry after the end of the cycle - I open the door and the residual heat is enough to dry most things. Sometimes there is residual water in depressions on top of upside-down bowls, etc., but a swipe with a dish towel is enough to take care of this.

The quick cycle (40 minutes) is excellent for cleaning lightly soiled dishes.

I have had no problems with plastics deforming but I think all of my plastic containers are microwave safe so the dishwasher should present no problems.

This is the first consumer dishwasher I have owned since '94 as for 15 years I had a commercial undercounter Hobart.

The Bosch is very quiet, I can barely hear it when I am standing near it in the kitchen.

I didn't want a dishwasher with a dry heating element because in my opinion it uses too much energy for the results obtained.

[GwennP]

Thank you both. The other issue I am wondering about is the filter. American dryers have a food grinder and self cleaning filter. Is cleaning the filter on the European models an issue?

[Anna N]

Thank you both. The other issue I am wondering about is the filter. American dryers have a food grinder and self cleaning filter. Is cleaning the filter on the European models an issue?

Of all the filters in all the dishwashers I have owned or used (all of them North American brands) cleaning this filter is the least onerous. I don't pre-rinse my dishes but I do scrape off large pieces of food. Cleaning the filter on my last dishwasher - a Frigidaire - took a big chunk out of my day and I never seemed to get it particularly clean after all that.

[Snadra]

I third the Bosch. We have a fully integrated one (I can look up the model if you like) and the only way we know it's on is if we stop and listen very, very carefully. It cleans very well (make sure you use the recommended detergent) and the filter is easy to deal with. We tend to rinse most stuff before putting it through because we only run it every few days and in our climate we've had issues with mold growing on the plates if they've been it it for a few days. The heat from the water tends to dry everything but plastic. Generally we use the timer so that it finishes when we get up in the morning (or home at night) so that we can dry any last drops off as we put the dishes away.

We will be moving in a couple of years and the next kitchen will definately have another Bosch dishwasher (it probably won't have another Bosch rangehood - noisy thing it is - but that's another thread!).

I have had experience with Miele through friends and through work (all less than 5 years old) and would not get one. One installed in a high end kitchen was so noisy the owners almost never run it. The one we have in our office doesn't seem to clean at all despite numerous service calls. The rest seem mediocre, especially for the price premium the brand commands here.

[Hest88]

We have a Miele, but my experience is the same as the Bosch owners. Everything gets totally dry except for plastics and areas where water can collect. We scrape our dishes, but not thoroughly. After dinner parties, where there's caked on food (like cheese baked onto Pyrex), the Miele has never had a problem thoroughly cleaning everything.

As for the filter, the only thing that tends to get caught there are non water-soluble items, so shells, and seeds and really fibrous items. I've gone months without checking the filter, and usually all I find are cat hair and the stray peppercorn. Bits of veggies, that baked-on cheese from the dinner party, etc. always make it through.

[Marlene]

I have two Kenmore Elites, and a Miele La Perla. The Kenmores reside at my cottage and in my bar downstairs at home. The Miele is in my kitchen at home. Frankly, I like the Kenmore so much, I am considering swapping the Kenmore and Miele at home.

The Kenmore runs like a dream on the quick cycle, (26 minutes), and I use it all the time, except for pots and very heavily soiled items. Everything comes out clean and hot and dry.

The Miele on its regular cycle takes over 2 hours to run, but it certainly gets things clean and they come out dry. Running on a quicker cycle, everything is clean, but not so dry. I don't have any problem with the filter in the Miele, but the configuration for dish placement is much better on the Kenmore as well.

[Shelby]

Well, sadly, I am dishwasher-less and am in need of a new one.

We've gone through 2 Kenmore dishwashers in about 10 years. It seems like they break down right after the warranties expire. The other day I started the washer and went about my business. I came back to see that the washer stopped mid-cycle....AND was just seconds away from catching on fire. The wires are all melted etc. Thank GOD it flipped the breaker. Unfortunately, my washer is not on the recall list *sigh*. Anyway, my husband refuses to purchase any more Kenmore/Whirlpool products. Samsung is also off the list due to a very looooooong and frustrating refrigerator problem that is still ongoing.

I honestly have never had a dishwasher that cleans dishes well. I don't expect miracles to happen--I don't load it full of cheese-crusted lasagna pans or anything. Maybe I'm just dishwasher challenged lol.

I know for sure that I want one with 1.) a food grinder 2.) a sterilization feature.

I use the dishwasher to sterilize all of my canning jars.

I've read this whole thread, so, armed with all of your input, I'm off to dishwasher research land.

[robirdstx]

I, too, am in the search for a new dishwasher. My current machine, a ten year old Maytag, is on its last legs. I'd like to have a quiet washer, with the grinder, that is energy efficient. And doesn't cost a fortune!

[Shelby]

Anyone that has an older dishwasher--like 10 years or more--seems to love their model. However, it seems like all the newer ones have complaint after complaint.

Sigh.

I'm coming to the conclusion that all dishwashers suck and must be replaced after 3 years.

I did get a tip from a repair site, though. Any dishwasher that does not have any type of electronic board seems to last 5+ years. So, I've been looking at the ones that still have the push buttons and knobs such as this:

http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/HDA3640RSA.html?mr:trackingCode=DC2A3840-0A32-DF11-9DA0-002219319097&mr:referralID=NA

Any thoughts?

[Dave the Cook]

Despite the front-panel array of mechanical devices, it's unlikely that any mass-market dishwasher is made these days without computer control built in, and that means circuit boards. It's just too expensive (and despite anecdotal data, less reliable) to set up a mechanical program to handle five wash cycles with three options.