Yankees writing about Southern Food

[FabulousFoodBabe]

I'm taking a great food writing course and this topic came up. We were dissecting a piece about a barbecue restaurant, and a couple of my classmates, who are from Alabama, were outraged that a Northerner was writing about Southern food. It was all in good fun, but the Southerners in our group were adamant! (None of them felt the same way about their writing about bagels or brisket).

I wonder if anyone here agrees and if so, why.

BTW, the piece wasn't condescending or stereotypical in any way.

[Chris Amirault]

What was their beef? Or pork, as the case may be?

[Angela Alaimo]

Ever since I moved to New York I've noticed that Yankees have an automatic air of superiority when it comes to things either Southern or perceived as Southern (ie, NASCAR). Now, I'm not saying they are stereotypical or condescending consciously, and if you weren't/aren't the Southern person you wouldn't even notice it. And of course I didn't have this experience with everyone, and this is all anecdotal, but well, maybe they have had a similar experience and that had something to do with it.

Also, "all in good fun" is, of course, in the eye of the beholder.

Angela

[Chris Amirault]

Ever since I moved to New York I've noticed that Yankees have an automatic air of superiority when it comes to things either Southern or perceived as Southern (ie, NASCAR).

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If by "Yankees" you mean those of us who live north of the Mason-Dixon line, then I think that this is an overstatement. Sure, there are Northerners who fit the bill, but the eGullet Society is a testament to the possibilities of Northern respect, appreciation, and downright hankering for things Southern. Click here for the gumbo cook-off, started by this very worshipful Northerner and enjoyed the world round.

Of course, if by "Yankees" you mean the major league baseball club that calls the Big Apple their home, well, then, yes, they all do have an automatic air of superiority. Those Yankees, in fact, suck.

[Carrot Top]

If Yankees can not be counted upon to have the intelligence and presence of mind to be able to study Southern food adequately to write about it, then I would also say that Non-Chefs do not have the same set of things available to them to be able to write about restaurants that are run by Chefs.

I take no sides here. Just a thought.

[Carrot Top]

Surely DNA testing would prove someone right.

Isn't there a Barbecue Knowledge Gene that one is either born with or not?

[FabulousFoodBabe]

What was their beef? Or pork, as the case may be?

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LOL -- actually, it started with a discussion about pulled pork. The problem seemed to be that they really didn't think "northerners 'get it' about Southern food." Which is why I posted this here. They really couldn't say more than that.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Ever since I moved to New York I've noticed that Yankees have an automatic air of superiority ...

Also, "all in good fun" is, of course, in the eye of the beholder.

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Um, the "all in good fun" was the Alabamans shrieking (yes, they were!) about how it's just wrong to have a NYer write about southern food. They did not believe that the same limitations existed for Southerners writing about Northern regional food or restaurants, and it really was a funny conversation. No one else in the class agreed with them, btw. And they were sure to tell us that nothing personal was meant (no one took it as such).

I think people tend to see stuff through the filter of their own experiences and insecurities ... like not thinking that Yankees are, in fact, superior. Everyone wants to be a Yankee. The only things Yankees suck is other teams into their dust.

[Chris Amirault]

May A-Rod choke on a Fenway Frank.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Surely DNA testing would prove someone right.

Isn't there a Barbecue Knowledge Gene that one is either born with or not?

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I think you're onto something!

I think that with the proper desire and resources, anyone can learn just about anything. I used to believe that being immersed or raised in a culture helped a person understand the food and food customs. I still kind of believe that's true with Asian cooking.

But Southern food? I always doubted that. One difference could be bean cookery. How could someone who's been raised with green beans 'n' fatback, understand a crock of baked beans simmered for hours and hours with lots of pork and sugar. That's what they serve in Boston, and I doubt anyone will be supping on Fenway beans for another six months.

[Varmint]

I lived in Pennsylvania until I went to college in North Carolina. I did not grow up with barbecue and didn't even know such a food existed until I was a sophomore in Chapel Hill. I didn't "get it" at first, but a few of you probably know that I've learned a few things about barbecue and other southern food over the years. Does my Yankee upbringing disqualify me? Nope. My wife was born and raised in the South and doesn't like barbecue, fatback, or the history of Southern food. She'd make a pretty crappy writer about the stuff.

What it takes is a desire to learn -- not just superficially about how foods are made or different restaurants serving Southern food. You need to know why Southern food "is." It's the same thing if you were writing about a Jewish deli in New York -- if you understand the culture and history behind the brisket and bagels, then you've established a base of credibility. But this knowledge is not easily attained -- you have to give it time.

Fat Guy is an example of a Yankee who has almost educated himself enough to write authoritatively about barbecue. He's not quite there, but he's talked to the pitmasters and their families. He understands why barbecue became such a staple to Southerners. He overcame his initial disdain of NC barbecue. His writing about barbecue is still a bit too clinical, however, but it wouldn't take much for him to write a barbecue piece that even I would find completely acceptable.

[Busboy]

In addition to Yankees being unable to write about southern food, I'd like to point out that white people have nothing to add to any conversation about black food, culture, history or society (and vice-versa); men writing about women is pointless; women writing about men is absurd; the Franco-American divide is well-chronicled and it's probably best that we don't even think about one another; BOH's opinions regarding FOH are feckless, FOH observations of BOH are jejune; while living inside the Beltway I noticed that provincial criticisms of our ways was borderline farcicle, while living outside the Beltway it occurred to me that those back inside had an alarmingly insular and myopic view. And don't even get me started on Californians, New Yorkers and farm-state peasants, each of which group inhabits a kind of socio-geodesic dome that so refracts information coming in, that their occasional journeys beyond the glass are no more real than Alice's.

In fact, unless you've spent a lifetime gazing at, and are possibly genetically related to, the navel, demographic group or brisket about which you are tempted to write, don't bother -- you're only fooling yourself.

[Carrot Top]

Yes. You are absolutely correct, Busboy.

You are so vastly intelligent that you must have eaten your Wheaties today and also have stayed at whatever hotel it is that gives one Knowledge last night.

It is true.

One must BE the Southern Barbecue to be able to write about it with any credence.

[Busboy]

It is true.

One must BE the Southern Barbecue to be able to write about it with any credence.

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as though a Virginian like yourself knows anything about the Alabama 'cue FFB was discussing. Best stick with country ham, my friend.

[Jaymes]

Busboy makes an excellent point. The way one group learns about another is through research and then converting that research into a form that others can absorb and understand. Even enjoy.

Some folk are better at that than others, true.

[racheld]

Wooo, Busboy!!!

You've come through again. Vive la difference!!

And anybody who's tasted Southern barbecue has taken the Holy Communion, is automatically one of the Elect, and everybody's qualified to like, adore, crave, try to replicate, and have dreams about that GOOOOOD pulled pork.

(And there's also a platter of beef ribs on Riverwalk in San Antonio that this dyed-in-the-cotton Delta girl is gonna taste again before I die). As I said, v. la d.

[Carrot Top]

It is true.

One must BE the Southern Barbecue to be able to write about it with any credence.

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as though a Virginian like yourself knows anything about the Alabama 'cue FFB was discussing. Best stick with country ham, my friend.

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I can be the ham.

The country folk don't want me though.

Life is incredibly difficult.

[Holly Moore]

Fat Guy is an example of a Yankee who has almost educated himself enough to write authoritatively about barbecue.  He's not quite there, but he's talked to the pitmasters and their families.  He understands why barbecue became such a staple to Southerners.  He overcame his initial disdain of NC barbecue.  His writing about barbecue is still  a bit too clinical, however, but it wouldn't take much for him to write a barbecue piece that even I would find completely acceptable.

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No more Fat Guy comparisons of pulled pork to Momo fare then?

Edited October 6, 2005 by Holly Moore (log)

[Mayhaw Man]

Two of the most competent, informed, and eloquent writers going in the Gulf South these days are Yankees(real ones, from Minneapolis and rural Wisconsin)-and not only do I enjoy their work, but I enjoy their friendship, as well.

Sara Roahen is as good as it gets. She covered restaurants and food reporting for the New Orleans Gambit for the last 4 years and has now left that position to work on a book about dining in New Orleans. She's great. I highly reccomend her work.

Brett Anderson (What food reporters are doing these days in New Orleans)is as good as it gets and, Yankee or no, has a clear and salient understanding of dining on the Gulf Coast and New Orleans. He has, in a few short years, even become really well versed in New Orleans history and lore-which is pretty huge as a part of understanding the foibles and eccentricities of New Orleans dining. He has followed the foot steps of longtime Picayune food writer Gene Bourg, a massively talented guy who was seemingly at the Picayune forever and is now a regular contributor to all kinds of national food and travel magazines.

It doesn't matter where you are from. It's all about understanding and learning. Beyond that, the only qualification required is a sense of humor (both of these guys have very large doses of that) and an ability to write. We're lucky to have had them around.

[Angela Alaimo]

I can only relate my own experience because I've only been me my whole life. WRT Yankees--Mason Dixon, I've found what you're talking about to be more about culture than food, except whenever I have to explain the difference between barbeque the noun and barbeque the verb.

WRT Yankees--baseball--GO any team that beats them.

Angela

[timothycdavis]

Fat Guy is an example of a Yankee who has almost educated himself enough to write authoritatively about barbecue.  He's not quite there, but he's talked to the pitmasters and their families.  He understands why barbecue became such a staple to Southerners.  He overcame his initial disdain of NC barbecue.  His writing about barbecue is still  a bit too clinical, however, but it wouldn't take much for him to write a barbecue piece that even I would find completely acceptable.

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Jay-sus! (That's the way us Southerners say "Jesus" when we're exasperated.) Not to beat a dead Appaloosa, but someone's got to put a stop to this most nonsensical of notions.

Need one have fought in the Civil War to write about it?

Walk in space to write science fiction?

Dunk a basketball to cover the NBA Finals?

Hold office to write for the Washington Post?

Be a swordsman to write porn scripts?

Answers:

1. no

2. no

3. no

4. no

5. hell no

As a reasonably published writer who writes most often on native Southern food and its context, I've learned that sometimes the BEST writers on a given food or situation come from outside the region. The best article I ever read on NYC breakfasts was from native Southerner (and all-around good guy) John T Edge. RT (Johnny) Apple of the NY Times has written some marvelous pieces on native Spanish and Italian cuisine. What do they have in common? Besides being extremely well researched, they (usually) enter into foreign turf with a paucity of preconceived notions. They filter their experiences, really feel things, and ably transmit that experience into elegant prose. They allow the food (the people, whatever) to move THEM, not move the food to fit their purposes. They admit to being shocked on occasion, disappointed on others. They develop trust, which develops a loyal readership.

So no, I have no problem with a "yankee" (sigh) writing about my native cuisine. I only ask that it be written well, to wit: interesting, fair, and above all, considered.

I am,

TCD

(eating a bagel with smoked salmon cream cheese, incidentally.)

[FabulousFoodBabe]

In fact, unless you've spent a lifetime gazing at, and are possibly genetically related to, the navel, demographic group or brisket about which you are tempted to write, don't bother -- you're only fooling yourself.

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O-M-G. Busboy, your post was, is, beautiful! Hey -- did you take a breath when this masterpiece was flowing from you?

[timothycdavis]

In fact, unless you've spent a lifetime gazing at, and are possibly genetically related to, the navel, demographic group or brisket about which you are tempted to write, don't bother -- you're only fooling yourself.

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O-M-G. Busboy, your post was, is, beautiful! Hey -- did you take a breath when this masterpiece was flowing from you?

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What if it's a particularly fetching navel? And if you're related to it and it's not your own, that's just gross.

[timothycdavis]

I am curious about one thing, however: a food writing course? Is there some sort of a formula? Is it inherently different from any other kind of writing, say, about sports or cars or cats? Writing courses I can see, but was just wondering about the specialization aspect of it.

[therese]

So let me first say that I do think it's just fine for Yankees (or rather people who don't happen to be from the southeastern U.S.) to write about "Southern" food. On the other hand, as somebody who is from the southeast but doesn't happen to sound like it, I am not infrequently privy to non-southerners' discussions of all things southern as somehow inferior to the remainder of the country. We're traditionally the poorest and least educated area, and these days we get to carry around the additional label of racist. Far from arriving at their subject with "a paucity of pre-conceived notions", non-southerners not infrequently already have an impression of southern food that includes deep-fried everything, overcooked vegetables (with added meat), and the world's sweetest desserts.

These preconceptions are by no means universal, and certainly I'd expect anybody who was interested in writing about food to be able to approach the topic with an open mind. But I've also seen too many people spit out boiled peanuts and complain that their pole beans are overcooked to not be a bit wary about the possibility of southern food be interpreted out of context.

All food is about culture, and southern culture is reviled or relegated to the terminally quaint by many.