Not impressed with fancy shmancy food

[Nyleve Baar]

I'm feeling a bit disturmished this morning. Went out to a food and wine pairing event last night which was held at a very hot restaurant (will not disclose name) run by a very hot chef (ditto). It is famed for the inventiveness of the cooking and this chef has a really good reputation. There were several small dishes paired with appropriate wines. I had never been there before so I was quite excited.

Sigh.

I was totally underwhelmed by the food. (The wines were outstanding - but that's neither here nor there.) The event was specially designed for a private group of food professionals. The dishes were, in my opinion, either silly or ill conceived and frankly, I could have done better myself. I'm not saying they didn't taste good but, well, here's an example: starter of wild leeks and morels in a marrow sauce (more a broth, really) intended to be served on thin triangular crackers. It tasted fine, but the leeks were left in long pieces and it was difficult to eat on the cracker without the whole thing crumbling apart, leaving you with a leek hanging out of your mouth. And the morels, well, I personally pick morels and these morels didn't have either the flavour or texture I'd have expected. If I were a suspicious person I'd think they were dried or frozen morels.

Other courses followed. One was a salad which was a pile of mixed greens incarcerated in a prison of multicoloured raw carrot sticks and radish chunks. The large pieces of carrot and radish had to be picked up in the fingers to be eaten, and didn't appear to have a relationship with the greens. No dressing - just salt, not to interfere with wine I guess (but I'd have liked a little drizzle of oil, at least). And the dessert was simply poor. It was a rhubarb crisp that appeared on the plate in a soggy puddle. A crisp should not ever be a puddle. It was served with a fairly nice ice cream, which I would have enjoyed on its own.

So what's wrong with me? Or was it not me? I don't think the chef was simply having an off day - I think that this was entirely intentional (maybe not the dessert, though). Do you think that he just got carried away and over-thought the meal in an effort to impress? Or am I missing something here? I am not a trained professional cook - just a competent home cook who writes about food. Does my ability to cook well at home destroy my appreciation for restaurant food? Has this happened to other people? Was I being too critical? This whole thing left me quite depressed.

[Bob Musa]

hard to say this without sounding arrogant, but i have found that as one's home cooking skills increase, it becomes more and more difficult to find decent restaurants (could there be a connection ? hmmm ...)

one striking thing i've noticed, based on my experience eating in the western hemisphere, (and excluding chains and fast food joints) is that there is no correlation whatsoever, between the price of a meal and the "taste experience" of a meal.

[Nyleve Baar]

Until now, I've always argued with my husband when we go out to eat. He says, "You can cook better than this," and I would say "I'm just glad to have someone else cook for a change." I didn't truly think that my cooking was better than a really good restaurant. My experience with expensive restaurants is pretty limited, to be honest. So I believed that out there was a world of excellent cooking - and when I had the chance to try it, I would be impressed.

Last night's meal was a revelation. I was not impressed. I could have done it. The revered chef, I hate to say it, is just a good cook.

You're right about the price/value non-correlation. I have eaten incredibly well for pennies (usually when travelling) and quite boringly for lots of money.

[rich]

Don't fret - it's a natural occurence. The better you cook at home, the more it takes for a restaurant to overwhelm you.

At this stage of my cooking life, I look for dishes with hard to find ingredients when I go out. I also look for food that can only be prepared properly in commercial kitchens, such as very high heat or with the assitance of several sous chefs/kitchen staff etc.

[Kokh Leffle]

I suffered from this very malady for years before I self diagnosed and cured myself forever. It was my desire to keep from being accused of arrogance and a smattering of self-doubt that kept the obvious so well shrouded.

Rich is right on the money. The better you become in the kitchen, the harder it is to be overwhelmed by restaurant fare.

I would rather keep control over my ingredients, cleanliness and method of preparation and presentation. Unless I am going to be impeccably served a meal I can’t prepare myself, I would rather stay home and roll my own.

[chefpeon]

As a professional, I will add that restaurant cooking and cooking at home are two completely different things. I enjoy cooking both at home and at work, and each are a challenge in their own ways.

At home, you have complete control over your ingredients and your preparation. You aren't pressed for time, and you don't have to get a trillion things done at once. You don't have to trip over your co-workers on the way to the stove or the sink. You can lovingly prepare your mise en place whilst drinking a glass of wine if you like.

But on the other side, cooking at home can be harder because of lack of space (counter, refrigeration, stove, oven), lack of professional or commercial equipment, etc. Without a commercial dishwasher, cleanup seems harder too....

Cooking professionally......man, do you know how many things can go wrong? As well as you try to manage it, you really DON'T have complete control over everything, and disasters are frequent occurrences. Either your vendor shorted you on a specific ingredient (it's usually the one you REALLY needed, too) or your cook burns something, or the produce isn't as nice as you'd like it to be, or the refrigeration goes down, or a mixer blows a circuit, or the dishwasher throws out a pot of veal stock you've been working on for days thinking it was dirty water, and now you have to wing it for your soup that night on a moment's notice. One of your crew usually manages to call out sick on the busiest night, so you're working short-handed. The thing is, it's usually always something. A completely smooth night sometimes seems to be the exception, not the rule.

Not that I'm making excuses for pros, mind you. I'm just saying that pros face much more challenges getting that meal to you, than you would making it yourself in your nice little

controlled environment.

Since I've worked in the food business, I've found myself far less critical of my peers in some ways , and more critical in others. I know the hardships. I'm just damn glad someone is cooking for me and I'm finally off my feet.

[Busboy]

Agree that the better you cook at home the harder it is to be blown away eating out, but there are also any number of reasons that you may want to hold off on demoting your "revered chef" to the rank of "good cook."

Since you don't name the chef or restaurant (c'mon, give us a hint ) it's hard to judge what level the chef aims to cook at. Some chefs/restaurants become revered because the serve "merely" very good cooking in a friendly/hip/beautiful setting, others because they are serving extraordinary creations. Maybe yours is the former.

Maybe his/her reputation has been inflated by PR and buzz. Some cities (again, couldn't glean your locale from the post) -- I would say most cities -- set pretty low bars for "top" chefs. I have heard it's improved, but when I lived in Denver, people positvely gushed about places that would have been ignored in DC and sneered at in New York.

Most chefs have Mondays off, often their only day of the week. Did you see him/her in the kitchen? You might have been eating the Sous's work. Or leftover produce from Friday's delivery. Or staff pissed off at coming in on their day off.

Also, my impression of most restaurants is that if you're eating a meal for 30, you're not getting the chef's best stuff. You're getting what can be put out with corporate efficiency, not necessarily artistic integrity. I had a business dinner for 25 at a very highly regarded restaurant here in DC and then, later, dinner in the dining room. No comparison. Actually, that's happened a couple of times.

Finally, maybe you just don't like "fancy-schmancy" food. Or like a different style. Or prefer your own cooking to others' on the gheneral and legitimate principle that you know what you like. It happens.

I get nervous when people start believing they're as good as the pros, or that there's no correlation between price and quality. In my experience, both statementsare misleading, at best.

Can you give us any more clues about where you ate?

[Nyleve Baar]

First of all, no, I'm not going to give you any hint as to where I ate, and which chef this was - not even what city. I don't wish to get into the particulars of his (yes, it's a his - that's all you're getting ) style and/or reputation. I was there on a professional basis - not as a critic or reviewer - but would prefer not to name names. Really, the truth is it has no bearing on my comments anyway.

First of all, yes he was definitely there. In fact, he introduced each dish personally, after the sommelier described the wines. He even gave his reasons for choosing the particular dishes - and explained how we were to approach them. I was extremely optimistic, I have to tell you. After all, we were a group of culinary professionals so I expected that he'd have been trying to put on a good show.

But the fact is that most of the food was nothing special and some of it wasn't very good at all. I don't presume in any way to compare myself to a professional chef. I couldn't run a restaurant kitchen if my life depended on it - nor would I want to. I know it's a whole other thing altogether than a home kitchen. I guess I was just expressing my disappointment that I was not blown away by the quality of the cooking. I wanted to be - really I did. There was one dish that I couldn't have made - some sort of stuffed rabbit thing which was very good - but it was served with a classic risotto that I do better at home. Risotto is not a difficult dish - but I realize it's hard to pull off in a restaurant in large quantities - and perhaps that was the problem. I think there were about 50 of us. For some of the other dishes, there really was no excuse - they were just poorly conceived and/or executed.

You're right - maybe he's a victim of hype. Maybe it was the group thing. I should go back and eat in the regular dining room. Now I'm curious. Maybe I will.

[Grub]

I think I've only been to two all-out, highfalutin, fancy-pants gourmet joints. One was Halve maan (Half moon) in Amsterdam, Holland -- it was very good, but nothing that struck me as any more memorable than what I've eaten in more "ordinary" restaurants -- that is, until someone asked the waiter for some advice on the desserts, and the guy just simply shrugged his shoulders...

The other place had a star in the Michelin guide -- D'Artagnan in Oslo, Norway. Six hour meal with sorbet palate-cleansers, wines, port, cognac, and I don't know what -- rounded up with Cuban cigars. Really impressive. Except, I thought the lamb dish I got was absolute crap... I would have put that down as my own ignorance of really snobby dining, but someone else had the same dish, and shared my opinion.

These were business dinners, so thankfully I didn't have to pay for them -- if I had, I'd probably require trauma counseling or something... Overpriced nonsense.

[PopsicleToze]

Sometimes chefs try to "fancy up" a dish and make it too complicated. Great food requires great ingredients and not much adornment. When they fancy up a dish, it's like an admission of guilt that they have no clue how to bring out the true ingredient's flavors.

I think your taste buds are fine. And taste those fancy schmancy (sp?? -- who knows) dishes once in awhile, but remember the peasants taught the elite how to eat. Eat what you like without apology.

Rhonda

[Pan]

[...] but remember the peasants taught the elite how to eat.[...]

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When was that? Please start a separate thread about this; I'd love to get some elaboration on your point of view and some back-and-forth discussion.

[Wine_Dad]

As a better than average home chef with a huge expense account, I have had the honor to dine in great establishments around the world. I am personally very critical of my meals out but I have also worked in the business during university and I concurr with Chefpeon that there are two many elements out of the Chef's control to blam every lame dish or cold course on the Chef.

Rather than be disillusionned by our external dining experiences I would encourage those of us who feel like Nyleve Baar to take those experiences and expand upon them in our own kitchens with our own guests.

I have a friend who's professional and I constantly invite him over when I enterpret his creations that I find mediocre. Quite a bit of fun actually.

[bilrus]

Interestingly, I've found that as I've become a more accomplished home cook, I have more appreciation for restaurant dining at a high level. I think I am able to pick up mor eon the nuances of what the chef is trying to accomplish and I have a better understanding of the work that goes into the meal.

But I also appreciate something simple too.

Maybe the chef had an off night. Maybe the chef isn't very good. Maybe you just don't like that type of cooking.

Any of those are fine reasons not to like a meal.

But the idea (not one that the original poster is espousing, but others seem to) that all high-end cooking is crap is just silly.

[WHS]

Interestingly, I've found that as I've become a more accomplished home cook, I have more appreciation for restaurant dining at a high level.  I think I am able to pick up mor eon the nuances of what the chef is trying to accomplish and I have a better understanding of the work that goes into the meal.

But I also appreciate something simple too.

Maybe the chef had an off night.  Maybe the chef isn't very good.  Maybe you just don't like that type of cooking.

Any of those are fine reasons not to like a meal.

But the idea (not one that the original poster is espousing, but others seem to) that all high-end cooking is crap is just silly.

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Agreed. Very few people (bilrus excepted) are going to try French Laundry cooking at home, and that's why we dine out. Though after a few nights in a row of eating in restaurants, I think we all suffer from palate fatigue. Which is why I'm throwing a couple of good steaks on the grill instead of going out this weekend for my birthday.

[touaregsand]

Pretty accomplished home cook (well very, if I do say so myself ), somewhat accomplished professional cook, married to a very accomplished professional cook.

At home we tend to cook very simply. We are capable of reproducing fancy schmancy food at home, we've worked together in restaurants. Our restaurant cooking is too labor and time intensive to reproduce at home. Not because every dish is complicated. Even a simple roast chicken with the demi-glace/jus (combo, thing a ma jiggy) sauce, well the sauce takes a long time to make. We don't bother with it at home. And no making a batch and freezing is not something we will do.

Even at the lower end there are dishes I wouldn't bother making at home because I can easily find great versions of it. Lebanese shawerma, Vietnamese Bahn mi, Indian dhosas, Mexican chile rellenos... throw in some sides for less than $10, even $5 I'm saving myself hourse of cooking.

For us it's not so much about what we can cook at home, but knowing that restaurant kitchens are set up to produce certain kinds of dishes more efficiently and the restaurant dining experience is different from eating at home.

As far as the revered chef just being a very good cook. I wouldn't argue with that. There are revered chefs who aren't even very good cooks. Then again there are revered chefs who are master cooks... The sort of cook that can bring tears of joy with a simple thing that tastes of heaven.

[Nyleve Baar]

In thinking about this, I have come to several possible conclusions:

1. The chef over-thought the meal. I do this all the time, so why would a chef be immune to this kind of thing? You invite someone to dinner who you KNOW knows their food. So you don't want to take on anything too ambitious - you want to stay pure and simple - good ingredients handled deftly but not pretentiously. Unfortunately, sometimes it just comes off being plain. Not just simple but downright ordinary. If not worse. Perhaps this chef was actually intimidated by a group of chefs, writers and food professionals and he just tried to look like he wasn't trying.

2. I prefer peasant food. I already know this. Not that this meal was ultra-refined (if I ever get served anything with "foam" I will simply have to leave the table) but, it's true, it was subtle. I like food that jumps off the plate and grabs me around the neck. With all the wonderful food I ate when I was in Italy, my favourite meal was in a tiny restaurant on top of a mountain where everything was cooked on a big open hearth and served family-style. It was absolutely peasant food - and I loved it.

3. It was too large a group to allow the dishes to be top notch when served. The aforementioned risotto, for one. And the rhubarb crisp too. But there was no excuse for the silly salad.

I am willing to give him another chance. But there are so many good places to eat, it could be a while before I get around to doing that.

[SobaAddict70]

Is it possible that you weren't impressed by this particular chef and his concept of cuisine?

Fancy shmancy food used to be defined as classical French haute cuisine. I daresay that the term also encompasses post-modern cuisine as defined by the likes of Adria and Achatz.

A little Keller goes a long way too.

I guess my point is that there's a whole universe out there. I wouldn't let one experience ruin it for me. I hope you don't.

[Nyleve Baar]

Oh no! Never! I am not at all discouraged by cuisine in general. It was just - I guess I had expectations because I'm a country bumpkin and don't get out much. And when I do it's usually to some funky little ethnic joint with the greatest kebabs/pho/kimchi/falafel/churrasco/whatever. To eat at a well-known restaurant which has been extensively reviewed and praised to the yin-yang was definitely something outside my usual scope of dining activities. I am not depressed. I am just surprised. You know - like when you're a kid and you think that the grownups are having SO MUCH FUN at their parties and then one time your parents let you stay up and be at the party and you find out that it's actually kinda boring.

That's how I felt. And I'm ok with it. No really, I am.

[Soup]

Baar,

Sorry about the bad food experience.

I'm an OK cook. My friends and family seems to like it, but I also love to eat out. There are stuff I don't cook at home (too much trouble but that is another discussion) and I like not having to clean.

However, my best dining experience have been in more ordinary restuarants. I use to be in a job that use to require me to go to a lot of dinners at pretty expensive places and to be honest never really enjoyed them (a couple of exceptions). May be it was the fact that we talk business...But even if my wife and I go out, we really like diners, BBQ places or really good ethic places with very little formalities.

Most of my best meals have been in the hole in the wall places that my family and I frequent but there have been exception. Off the top of my head was a 4 hour meal at commanders palace in NO, office xmas lunch @ maggiano's (I know its a chain) that turned into a 5 hour eating and drinking fest, and dinner with the wife at aureol (sp?) she had duck liver for the first time (still talks about it).

But there have been far better meal experiences in small mom and pop places and certainly more at my or my parents' place.

Soup

[WHS]

You know - like when you're a kid and you think that the grownups are having SO MUCH FUN at their parties and then one time your parents let you stay up and be at the party and you find out that it's actually kinda boring.

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Like that famous place in Berkeley--you know which one: local ingredients and world famous chef--and my reaction was "is that all there is??" It was perfectly nice and the food was very good, but who can live up to the hype?

[touaregsand]

You know - like when you're a kid and you think that the grownups are having SO MUCH FUN at their parties and then one time your parents let you stay up and be at the party and you find out that it's actually kinda boring.

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Like that famous place in Berkeley--you know which one: local ingredients and world famous chef--and my reaction was "is that all there is??" It was perfectly nice and the food was very good, but who can live up to the hype?

←

I don't know.

I've noticed the hype takes new directions occassionally. When the hype is new, the bar is new, so it becomes about the hype for awhile with lots of talk about what will happen when the hype settles.

One side dismisses it as pure hype. Another side dismisses the dismissers as low brow or not forward thinking. Still another side claims not to be resistant to hype per se, it really is hype. Another side says the hype is a just a part of marketing or pandering but there is more to the hype or something behind the hype or the hype will leave a legacy for sure proving that it was not all just hype... goes on and on...

[Busboy]

You know - like when you're a kid and you think that the grownups are having SO MUCH FUN at their parties and then one time your parents let you stay up and be at the party and you find out that it's actually kinda boring.

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Like that famous place in Berkeley--you know which one: local ingredients and world famous chef--and my reaction was "is that all there is??" It was perfectly nice and the food was very good, but who can live up to the hype?

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Funny, I ate at a famous place in Berkeley and was completely blown away by the food. Must have been a different joint.

Pondering this while driving the kids to school this morning...

Given the love of peasant-y stuff expressed upthread, I wonder if part of the problem is the current trend towards food that speaks far more from the intellect than from the heart -- a culinary "Spanish Flu" if you will.

In a world where (too often) sauces are banished in favor of foams, mousses and "airs"; where presentations have all the precision and all of the warmth (ie, none) of a Schönberg composition; and where the alleged health benefits of a meal are trumpeted as loudly as its flavor, too many meals simply lack, for lack of a better word, soul.

I don't think it's any coincidence that the French bistro trend has exploded at the same time that Adria and his disciples have begun to gain influence. I haven't eaten at El Bulli, but too many of the meals I have eaten that have cutting edge ambitions leaving me feeling more than a little let down -- impressed, but not satisfied. Call me a luddite, but give me something I can sink my teeth into.

[SobaAddict70]

I'm reminded of a post made by someone who had eaten at that famous place in Berkeley (for the uninitiated, it's Chez Panisse we're referring to), who had a pluot served to him in a wooden bowl, for dessert.

He remarked "is that all there is?"

Personally, I think that people should just let the food speak for itself. Bollocks to hype.

[touaregsand]

I'm reminded of a post made by someone who had eaten at that famous place in Berkeley (for the uninitiated, it's Chez Panisse we're referring to), who had a pluot served to him in a wooden bowl, for dessert.

He remarked "is that all there is?"

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If she created the plum apricot hybrid in her kitchen with some sort of alchemy or magic I'd be really impressed. Imagine Waters holding one of each, chanting an earth mother spell, smashes the two fruits together, presto pluot.

The jokes have already been made in the French forum about mint leaf garnishes. A side of aprium would be nice though.

[SWISS_CHEF]

I really love to eat at a restaurant that excels at it's food. The trouble is I usually end up paying top dollar for below-average food served on avant-garde plates in a pretentious setting. It happens all too often these days.

I have been part of the real thing and I know a fake when I see it. So I would have to agree... I end up being happiest when I'm eating at home too.