Pure Food & Wine (raw vegan)

[mjr_inthegardens]

I am very interesting in checking the restaurant out!

I noticed that the menu is available (I presume the non-changing items) on menupages.com for those who wish to browse (or live vicariously)

cheers

-mjr

[Smithy]

Sarma, it's wonderful to have your voice added to eGullet and to read your take on the raw food! It's especially wonderful to read such great reviews of PFW. Good luck to you, and keep on visiting!

Now, I have a few questions, and I apologize in advance if they've already been discussed and I missed the answers.

First, and most specifically: how the heck do you make a vegan ice cream? Are you just saying "ice cream" to denote the flavor and texture? I assume it isn't a sorbet. What provides the creamy texture?

Second, and far more broadly: when I've read about the raw food movement my first reaction has been "man, that's too much work!". Is this a practical thing to do for home cooking, without devoting hours and hours a day (or the weekly equivalent, say a full day each week) to the process? I love to cook, but I suspect that in short order I'd be munching on carrot sticks and chopped lettuce dressed with dried apricots, and calling it done...

Finally, nobody so far has answered the question of "why 118*F?" Enquiring minds want to know...

[mjr_inthegardens]

Finally, nobody so far has answered the question of "why 118*F?" Enquiring minds want to know...

The theory is out there

http://www.westonaprice.org/nutrition_greats/howell.html

for example

[jeunefilleparis]

Sarma, it's wonderful to have your voice added to eGullet and to read your take on the raw food! It's especially wonderful to read such great reviews of PFW. Good luck to you, and keep on visiting!

Now, I have a few questions, and I apologize in advance if they've already been discussed and I missed the answers.

First, and most specifically: how the heck do you make a vegan ice cream? Are you just saying "ice cream" to denote the flavor and texture? I assume it isn't a sorbet. What provides the creamy texture?

Second, and far more broadly: when I've read about the raw food movement my first reaction has been "man, that's too much work!". Is this a practical thing to do for home cooking, without devoting hours and hours a day (or the weekly equivalent, say a full day each week) to the process? I love to cook, but I suspect that in short order I'd be munching on carrot sticks and chopped lettuce dressed with dried apricots, and calling it done...

Finally, nobody so far has answered the question of "why 118*F?" Enquiring minds want to know...

HI Smithy

I can answer part of the icecream on,,,,,, they use young coconut flesh which makes it creamy,,,,,,,, also I think if you scroll up to her first posts i think she explains it!

lauren

[Pan]

Great report, Lauren!

What's zebra lasagna?

[ErinB]

I think zebra is a kind of heirloom tomato.

[Pan]

Thanks, Erin. I knew they weren't importing zebra meat from Africa and serving it uncooked...

[Smithy]

I can answer part of the icecream on,,,,,, they use young coconut flesh which makes it creamy,,,,,,,, also I think if you scroll up to her first posts i think she explains it!

lauren

D'Oh! (I guess I should have read more carefully!)

Thanks, Lauren!

[sarmasarma123]

Sarma, it's wonderful to have your voice added to eGullet and to read your take on the raw food! It's especially wonderful to read such great reviews of PFW. Good luck to you, and keep on visiting!

Now, I have a few questions, and I apologize in advance if they've already been discussed and I missed the answers.

First, and most specifically: how the heck do you make a vegan ice cream? Are you just saying "ice cream" to denote the flavor and texture? I assume it isn't a sorbet. What provides the creamy texture?

Second, and far more broadly: when I've read about the raw food movement my first reaction has been "man, that's too much work!". Is this a practical thing to do for home cooking, without devoting hours and hours a day (or the weekly equivalent, say a full day each week) to the process? I love to cook, but I suspect that in short order I'd be munching on carrot sticks and chopped lettuce dressed with dried apricots, and calling it done...

Finally, nobody so far has answered the question of "why 118*F?" Enquiring minds want to know...

thank you!!! .... so about the 'ice cream' ... it's made with coconut meat, as lauren mentioned... some are also made with soaked nuts, which make a creamy base. young coconuts are amazing. and SO good for you. I think we do need to use words like "ice cream" b/c it really tastes like ice cream and what else would we call it? The thing I am VERY excited about is to make ice cream sandwiches for the takeaway store... YUM! I have made some, they are very cute... a pain in the ass to make, but worthwhile. With either coconut lime cookies or chocolate cookies... i'm so tired, it was a busy tuesday night! we are lucky with amazing weather, and maybe I'm being sappy b/c i'm so tired, but we have an amazingly wonderful staff too and are so grateful for all their work and enthusiasm and energy - i'm just feeling sappy i guess - I want to list them all, like as if I was writing my "blurb" in my highschool yearbook...

:)

[sarmasarma123]

Thanks, Erin. I knew they weren't importing zebra meat from Africa and serving it uncooked...

NO... not importing zebra meat... although I wonder what that would taste like?? eiw! Green zebra tomatoes... so pretty! now it's like a garnish... b/c they are hard to find and not often perfectly ripe. although when they are really in season, we'll have green zebras all over the menu. watch out. :) Does it not just SOUND cool too? Green zebra? There are so many beautiful kinds of tomatoes that we use... we actually have a few growing in our little garden out back, which you can see if you peek over the banquettes... our partner Jeffrey Chodorow's wife planted them, along with tons of herbs. It's really pretty back there. Matthew and I shared the first tomato with my sister who was in for dinner w/ her boyfriend... just with some coarse sea salt and lemon basil. Somehow, coming from our humble little garden patch it was SO much sweeter and more delicious than any coming from a box.

:)

[SobaAddict70]

Squash can be made to look like spaghetti, but not to taste like it. A pizza with seeds doubling for dough and tahini doing the work of cheese may have its charms, but I doubt it will have Domino's running scared.

But as my guests and I worked our way through "spicy Thai lettuce wraps," red beet ravioli with cashew-paste filling and noodles made from coconuts, a sense of monotony set in.

No matter how brilliant their colors or creative their shapes, these were all essentially salads masquerading as something else.

Pure Food and Wine (Frank Bruni)

Sounds like one star to me.

Soba

[ErinB]

Frank Bruni is really starting to get on my nerves. From the article:

Squash can be made to look like spaghetti, but not to taste like it. A pizza with seeds doubling for dough and tahini doing the work of cheese may have its charms, but I doubt it will have Domino's running scared.

I essentially agree with a lot of what he says about Pure Food & Wine.

But, he kind-of completely misses the point as well. I went to PF&W last night. I'll do a more substantial write up later.

But, the thing that I appreciate most about the restaurant is the unique fruits & vegetables they use and the freshness and quality.

If you order the "squash pasta" and expect it to really taste like pasta, you're missing the point.

[Nathan]

I actually completely agreed with the review...the problem with this type of [non] cooking is that everything is essentially a salad as he quite cleverly pointed out. As for "squash pasta", it's sort of like tofu hotdogs, etc., if you're so proud of not eating meat, cooking, being macrobiotic or whatever pseudoscientific crap suits your fancy, why try and make everything look like the forbidden food products?

Certain things at Pure are done very well, others, well, just point out the immense limitations of the approach.

I understand that anyone who shares their approach is emotionally invested in having to rave about the food or even earnestly pretending that it tastes good...but much of it just doesn't.

[Pan]

I didn't find fault with the review but haven't been to the restaurant. Yeah, I think that reads as a 1-star review.

[mjr_inthegardens]

I got dragged to a vegan bakery once.

Once.

[Pan]

There's a vegan bakery right near me, but I decline to talk about it in this thread.

[sarmasarma123]

I actually completely agreed with the review...the problem with this type of [non] cooking is that everything is essentially a salad as he quite cleverly pointed out. As for "squash pasta", it's sort of like tofu hotdogs, etc., if you're so proud of not eating meat, cooking, being macrobiotic or whatever pseudoscientific crap suits your fancy, why try and make everything look like the forbidden food products?

Certain things at Pure are done very well, others, well, just point out the immense limitations of the approach.

I understand that anyone who shares their approach is emotionally invested in having to rave about the food or even earnestly pretending that it tastes good...but much of it just doesn't.

Hi... regarding the above... we are certainly NOT "so proud of not eating meat" - I think that simply because we are doing something different, a lot of people assume we are making some kind of grand statement or judgement against people who eat meat, or anything else for that matter. I LOVE meat... it's just that since a little over a year ago, I don't want to eat it anymore and it has nothing to do with any "pseudoscientific crap" - all it has to do with is the fact that I've never felt better before - same for Matthew.

And we're not taking vegetables and trying to make them look like meat... but when we make a bowl of squash pasta with black summer truffles and sweet peas... what do we call it... "long strands of squash that happen to look a lot like spahgetti" ? It would be really hard to word a menu if we had to make up new names for everything... if something is prepared in layers like a lasanga, isn't it easier for everyone ordering if we call it that? Because our ice cream has no dairy in it, should we not use the word "cream" and call it "frozen smooth somethingorother... substance? matter?" We're not trying to create anything that tastes like anything other than what it is.... and it's more than just salad. :)

And finally, I don't think what we are doing is limiting in the least, although I can certainly understand why many would think that. I think it's exciting...

Cheers,

Sarma :)

[jeunefilleparis]

I actually completely agreed with the review...the problem with this type of [non] cooking is that everything is essentially a salad as he quite cleverly pointed out. As for "squash pasta", it's sort of like tofu hotdogs, etc., if you're so proud of not eating meat, cooking, being macrobiotic or whatever pseudoscientific crap suits your fancy, why try and make everything look like the forbidden food products?

Certain things at Pure are done very well, others, well, just point out the immense limitations of the approach.

I understand that anyone who shares their approach is emotionally invested in having to rave about the food or even earnestly pretending that it tastes good...but much of it just doesn't.

I m sorry Nathan, but the reason people dont eat meat is personal, there are varying reasons

for example, I dont eat meat bc I dont think that any animal has to suffer for me to be full. Also the amount of water used to take care on cattle is astonishing. The earth is slowly, actually not that slowly running out of fresh water and a lot of it goes to cattle, pigs etc.

Its amazing to me that non vegetarians are so damn insecure about their reasons for eating meat that they have to make the vegetarians defend their decisions.

Yes there are some really annoying vegetarians who preach etc, but not all of them are like that

According to the Water and Soil Specialists, California Agriculture Extension

working with livestock advisors it takes

23 gallons are required to grow 1 lb of lettuce and tomatoes, , 24gallons to grow 1 lb of potatoes, 25gallons for 1 lb of wheat

and for meat and fowl etc

for 1 lb of chicken its takes 815 GALLONS of water

for 1 lb of PORK it takes 1 630 GALLONS of water

and for one little POUND of beef 5,215 GALLONS of water

you set me off so I am just giving you some facts

[picaman]

I actually completely agreed with the review...the problem with this type of [non] cooking is that everything is essentially a salad as he quite cleverly pointed out.

Though I've not eaten at Pure Food and Wine, I'm generally in favor of any restaurant which gives one an interesting alternative to a typical dining experience. Personally, I'd be as likely to go here as to eat at Fergus Henderson's St. John in London.

Jamie

[jeunefilleparis]

As I may have mentioned before I am a total vegetarian now. Its been over a month since ive had any red meat or meat from fowl, with the exception of fish. Without trying I have lost about 5 llbs I sleep better, my skin is better and I am never hungry in the afternoon. I have not become some holier than thou person, I dont care what people eat as long as they are aware of the consequences to their health.

I am eating dairy again bc i really missed goat cheese, i m not sure if I will continue this dairy intake daily or just on special occasions, I really like my vanilla soy milk and rice milk.

I cant remember if I posted it here or said it in conversation but in Wisconsin this past holiday, I watched my friends friends catch a fish. As they pulled it out of the water I watched it squirm and struggle. They had difficulty removing the sharp hook from its mouth. It looked so painful as if it had gotten a lip piercing at the mall without asking and someone just came up to it with a needle and went here.

I was struggling with removing fish oysters etc from my diet but now its done. I had my last meal at Mary's fish camp last night. Fried oysters and clams and a really great lobster roll, but as I ate it, I personally felt really guilty, as lots of lobsters are thrown in alive to boiling water and if that was me, it would have hurt a lot. As far as the oysters/clams go., I called PETA and while they dont know for sure if they feel pain, what they do know is that constantly scraping the oceans floor for oysters and other shell fish destroys their ecosystems.

I dont know how i m going to give up my leather shoes though,,,,,,, damn you Prada.

[SethG]

Sarma, your good-natured defense of Pure Food and Wine and your willingness to speak so freely here have certainly made me more likely to check out your restaurant, whatever Frank Bruni thinks. Thank you for participating.

[FoodMan]

Can you please get off Nathan's case. I am sure he was not attacking vegetarians, I am not either I like most of the ones I met . The pseudo-scientific crap is the crap about raw food being "better" for you than real food. And yes I said real food becuase TO ME uncooked vegetable mixed together with peanut mush might be tasty but is just a salad, a novelty item which might tatse good once in a while but, it is by no means scientifically proven to give you better health.

Elie

[jeunefilleparis]

Can you please get off Nathan's case. I am sure he was not attacking vegetarians, I am not either I like most of the ones I met . The pseudo-scientific crap is the crap about raw food being "better" for you than real food. And yes I said real food becuase TO ME uncooked vegetable mixed together with peanut mush might be tasty but is just a salad, a novelty item which might tatse good once in a while but, it is by no means scientifically proven to give you better health.

Elie

I wasnt getting on nathans case i was merely stating my opinion

[LaurieA-B]

In this and other articles about "Raw Food," it says nothing is heated above 118 degrees.  What's so magical about 118 degrees, why not 120, or some other temp?

Nothing. See Robert Wolke in the Washington Post, 9/18/2002:

Most nonsensical of all is the claim that all enzymes are "killed" (they mean deactivated; enzymes aren't alive) at 118 degrees Fahrenheit. Not 117 or 119, mind you, but 118. Heat your food any hotter than that and your goose is cooked.

It's true that heat (and most acids, and even some enzymes) can denature proteins, that is, unravel the twisted protein molecules and allow them to re-bond in different configurations, so that they no longer have the same chemical properties. But there are thousands of known enzymes consisting of thousands of different proteins that denature under different conditions. Fixating on a single denaturation temperature is -- may I use the word once more? -- nonsense. Besides, in view of what I've already said, a denatured fruit or vegetable enzyme isn't the end of the world anyway.

[Nathan]

exactly...that is what I meant by "pseudoscience".....

next time we can talk about "organic"

I have nothing against vegetarians per se.

the fresh water thing is essentially a myth but....

we are naturally carnivores but I have nothing against people who choose to go against nature -- especially if it's for health reasons