Nuclear Fish?

[liuzhou]

Quote

Japan has begun discharging treated radioactive wastewater from the disabled Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station into the Pacific Ocean, 12 years on from the major meltdown there, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) confirmed on Thursday.

 

I may have to limit my pescatarian and related consumption. According to the map below showing the projected risk, Guangxi is one of the highest risk areas. I guess about 90% of our marine food is local, especially that landed in Beihai on the south coast. Beihai is also a major aquaculture centre for southern China. Not surprisingly people are concerned angry not only about the health risks, but the effect on the local economy. Map translation by my Android phone.

 

 

Looks like I've got around 8 months before I start glowing in the dark.

 

Reminder: No politics, please.

 

[dcarch]

This was in the news a few days ago:

 

https://www.science.org/content/article/germany-s-radioactive-boars-are-bristly-reminder-nuclear-fallout

 

Radiation from human activities gets spread many ways and radiation can take forever to disappear, from sea and from land.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-66362-6

 

dcarch

 

 

[Paul Bacino]

Sad

[liuzhou]

1 hour ago, dcarch said:

Radiation from human activities gets spread many ways and radiation can take forever to disappear, from sea and from land.

 

I learned that in junior school. 60 years ago.

Edited August 31, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[Duvel]

2 hours ago, liuzhou said:

Reminder: No politics, please.

Given the nature of the topic and the associated emotions (that are not necessarily only rooted in the matter itself), this seems hardly possible. 
 

A more unbiased view can be found here …

[heidih]

Fishermen fish and people buy the catch to eat. The oceans are polluted. My local mess due to unregulated dumping  https://wildlife.ca.gov/OSPR/NRDA/Montrose-CERCLA

[haresfur]

The water being released by Japan has had radionuclides removed except for tritium (including cesium isotopes in the article cited above). Tritium, for those who may not know, is a radioactive form of hydrogen, H-3, with a half life of about 12.3 years. It is present as a part of the water molecule since it is hydrogen. There is essentially no way to remove it from the water which is being treated to remove other, more hazardous radionuclides. Tritium is an emitter of weak beta radiation that does not bio-concentrate in fish or other life forms, including humans, because it is part of water. It gets flushed through as other water is consumed. As such, drinking water standards are quite high compared to other radionuclides. The drinking water standard for tritium is set by most countries and organisations at 7,000 Becquerels per liter, based on consumption of 2 L of water per day.

 

The basic assumption in calculating radiation risk is the "linear low dose" extrapolation method where any radioactive decay is calculated to have an associated risk. Thus, the goal is to have no radioactive exposure but in actuality we all are exposed to, and consume natural and man-made radionuclides. So yes, there is always a risk with any radioactive exposure but standards for acceptable radioactive dose have been set for the general public and at much higher levels for workers at radioactive facilities. There is a whole lot of science and policy in translating the radioactivity of different isotopes into a dose due to exposure.

 

It can be hard to take all of this and put it into a context of, "Ok, how worried should I be?" while still maintaining the actual accuracy (or precision for that matter) of the science. I wouldn't tell people there is no risk but it is hard to show them how small the risk is. We used a "Theoretical maximally exposed individual" to show that no one would approach dangerous exposure levels near a nuclear facility. It would be good if China took that approach, I don't know for sure why they haven't (no politics).

 

Another way to gain perspective is to compare the discharge to the amount of tritium released by other sources. From a Japanese news site:

 

Quote

 

Chinese statistics show that 13 nuclear power plants in China each released more radioactive tritium into the ocean in 2021 than the planned amount to be released from Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in one year.

The annual amount of tritium contained in the treated and diluted water to be released from the plant in Fukushima is capped at 22 trillion becquerels.

Chinese nuclear energy sector data show the Qinshan power plant in Zhejiang Province released 218 trillion becquerels of tritium in 2021. That is about ten times the maximum amount of tritium to be discharged from the Fukushima Daiichi plant in a year.

 

 

I don't have any figures for the estimated tritium concentration expected for fish near the coast of China but would be very surprised if it was as high per kg as the drinking water standard. One thing to look for is to compare seawater concentration measurements to the drinking water standard. I personally wouldn't worry about eating the fish if the seawater levels are lower than the drinking water standard since tritium doesn't concentrate in the flesh and I'm not likely to eat 2 kg of fish every day. I do know I was happy to consume steelhead caught by the nuclear facility I mentioned above.

[haresfur]

42 minutes ago, heidih said:

Fishermen fish and people buy the catch to eat. The oceans are polluted. My local mess due to unregulated dumping  https://wildlife.ca.gov/OSPR/NRDA/Montrose-CERCLA

 

Sometimes it gets down to what scares you. Cancer risk is one thing but neurotoxins like pesticides freak me out much more.

[gfweb]

The combination of a fairly benign isotope and massive dilution by seawater argues against much of an effect on people who eat fish.

 

But its good for clicks and that's a greater need than to inform accurately and honestly.

[heidih]

The media in any event that affects fisheries will aways be a factor - just like the horrid massive BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico in 2010. Fishing like farming is a gamble. I feel sorry for the hard working people on the boats. I grew up with children of fishermen when tuna was king in Los Angeles. Every drama eventually gets sidelines by the next one  it seems.

[rotuts]

its the Party , not the Science :

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/31/world/asia/china-fukushima-water-protest.html?searchResultPosition=1

 

'''   By exaggerating the risks from Japan’s discharge of treated wastewater, Beijing hopes to cast Japan and its allies as conspirators in malfeasance, analysts say.  ''

 

'''

In many social media posts like these, the phrase “nuclear-contaminated wastewater” has appeared — the same wording used by the Chinese government and state media to refer to Japan’s release into the ocean of treated radioactive water from the ruined Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Even before Japan started pumping out the first tranche of more than a million tons of wastewater last week, China had mounted a coordinated campaign to spread disinformation about the safety of the release, stirring up anger and fear among millions of Chinese. ''

[pastrygirl]

Probably not radioactive.  Eat on.

[liuzhou]

9 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

Probably not radioactive.  Eat on.

 

I have every intention of eating on and always did. I apologise for using irony. Most people got it but not all.

Remember, my neighbours are the same people who went ballistic buying cooking salt when the Fukushima disaster occured in the deluded belief that it would somehow protect them.

 

What I am worried about is that the very real outrage will be enough to damage the seafood business and I won't be able to get the seafood to eat on.

 

In future, I'll have to add this to my posts.

 

[blue_dolphin]

1 hour ago, liuzhou said:

Most people got it but not all.

I'll assume this is irony as well!

 

[liuzhou]

1 minute ago, blue_dolphin said:

I'll assume this is irony as well!

 

 

Who will ever know?

[blue_dolphin]

1 hour ago, liuzhou said:

 

Who will ever know?

I hope I’m right!  It's unpleasant to see well-meaning people respond thoughtfully to a comment only to be told, “Ha ha, just kidding and most everyone got the joke!” 
Carry on with your alerts for those of us too obtuse to catch the humor!

[rotuts]

there was no humor in this thread 

 

from its onset .

 

regurgitated propaganda ?   

 

you decide.

 

 

[Dave the Cook]

We're locking this topic, as it doesn't comply with our Decorum and Topicality guideline, to wit: "Posts on a given topic must pertain to that topic." By our count, only 4 out of 23 posts on this topic were actually on topic -- not a great percentage.

 

It would be helpful for all of us to keep this guideline in our heads. Also, bear in mind a sentence we find ourselves often repeating: "Tone is difficult to convey over the internet."

 

Thanks.