Cleavers

[weinoo]

On 3/15/2023 at 9:40 AM, btbyrd said:

As for separating wingettes from drumettes, I suspect that this is a technique issue more than a knife issue. There's a small ridge by the joint between the wingette and drumette, and if you cut just beside it, the blade should slide cleanly between the bones in the joint. Once you can reliably find where to cut, you can do the task with pretty much any knife. So instead of buying a new knife, I might instead suggest buying a party pack of wings and just practicing. Worse case scenario, you have to eat a lot of wings. That sounds pretty great to me!

 

Yes - for this task, I'll often use a paring/petty knife. No need for hacking.

 

[scott123]

On 3/15/2023 at 9:40 AM, btbyrd said:

 

As for separating wingettes from drumettes, I suspect that this is a technique issue more than a knife issue. There's a small ridge by the joint between the wingette and drumette, and if you cut just beside it, the blade should slide cleanly between the bones in the joint.

I'm familiar with this process   It takes practice to develop a feel for where to make the cut, and, because I only make wings every couple months, I lose that feel and have to basically start from scratch.  Also, if I'm going to be honest, I hate the feeling when I misjudge the location and hit the ball joint straight on. For me, knife against bone that it can't go through is a little fingernail chalkboard-y.  

I'm not saying that everyone should hack wings with a cleaver, but, I want to try hacking.  

[heidih]

Don't people just bend the 2 sections backwards to expose the joint. 

[heidih]

39 minutes ago, btbyrd said:

"Cash," I think they're called.

and tucked into a red envelope - thematic

[Laurentius]

You mean a Chinese-style slicing/chopping blade, yes?

 

CCK makes a wide selection.  Chefs Knives to Go carries many of them.  Also available on Amazon.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Laurentius
Style (log)

[Jaymes]

Thanks everyone! 

So many wonderful suggestions.

 

Son had birthday this week. Gave him a gift certificate. He's really happy, & going to select something himself.

 

So thanks again!

 

[Jaymes]

On 3/12/2023 at 10:02 AM, btbyrd said:

The standard knife-nerd recommendation for a thin slicing cleaver that won't be used on bones is from CCK, which is a company based out of Hong Kong. The usual recommended models are the KF1303 (which is made from reactive carbon steel) and KF1912 (which is stainless). These knifes look rustic but offer incredible cutting performance thanks to their thin geometry. They're much better performers than their rustic appearance might let on, and will leave most comparable European knives in the dust. 

 

One sad thing is that CCK changed the branding over on their knives. They used to be stamped/engraved into the side of the knife, but the new ones have a laser etch with a QR code. Kind of a bummer. But whatever.

 

I got my CCK KF1912 from Chef Knives to Go, which has a wide-ish selection of cleavers. I'd also look at the Fook Kee slicers, as well as those from Chopper King. The ones from Fook Kee are very similar to the CCKs, but they have the older style, non-lasery branding on the side and come with a nicer handle. The Chopper Kings are also similar and have nice-ish handles. Both the Fook Kee and Chopper Kings are made in Taiwan with Japanese steel. If you do get a cleaver from CKTG, consider also picking up a cleaver saya for it. These provide such better protection than edge guards do. It's so nice to be able to throw a cleaver in my knife bag and not have to worry about it banging around in there.

Love this info!

[liuzhou]

This is my bone cleaver. 1.2 kg of knife. I mainly use it for chopping pork or beef ribs into chopstick wieldable pieces as people do round here. Bought in China, of course.

 

[KennethT]

3 hours ago, liuzhou said:

This is my bone cleaver. 1.2 kg of knife. I mainly use it for chopping pork or beef ribs into chopstick wieldable pieces as people do round here. Bought in China, of course.

 

And you can moonlight as a lumberjack!  Or a slasher movie!

[liuzhou]

48 minutes ago, KennethT said:

And you can moonlight as a lumberjack!  Or a slasher movie!

 

Damn! I've been busted!

[AlaMoi]

(heavy) cleavers and bones have a serious issue - bone fragments.

I have a mega-heavy thick serious meat cleaver from my parents' 1950s excursions into 'buying a half cow'

used it, twice, on chicken.  worked great - cleaved with zip-comma-zero effort. 

...and produced bunches of bone fragments one had to fish out tooth-by-tooth.

 

making a clean cut thru the joint is much superior to the brute force 'hack&whack' approach.  imho.

[palo]

Chicken bones tend to splinter as they are hollow - I was told never to give a dog chicken bones because of that

 

p

[btbyrd]

This thread isn't really about bone chopping cleavers, but if it was, I would say two things. The first is that I don't use one of those because I don't have much use for one. Instead, I use another knive that I don't have much use for. The Tojiro 240mm Western Deba. It's my anti-cleaver meat cleaver. It has the profile of a chef's knife but the blade is so thick you can basically do anything to it and not have to worry. It is a monster. An absolute unit.

 

 

This video gives a good idea of the experience of using it on chickens. It'll just hack through a carcass without asking questions. 

 

 

The blade is so freakshow heavy that it will smash of garlic with basically the force of gravity. But it still has the classic profile of a French chef's knife, so you can rock chop things into oblivion. I use mine to mince rosemary and other woody herbs, for instance.

 

 

Smackitty smackitty.

 

But if I was to buy a bone cleaver, this is the daddy.

 

 

[haresfur]

I think there are bone cleavers and bone cleavers. I have my father's cheap-ass cleaver he schlepped back from Asia for some reason. I took the chips out of it with a file and then promptly put a new one in with a pork bone, so it's chicken only (not that I do that much). I'd say for me any hard bone calls for the hacksaw, which is slow but doesn't leave chips, just some ground bits that are probably good for you.

[liuzhou]

9 hours ago, btbyrd said:

This thread isn't really about bone chopping cleavers

 

I'm not sure why you think that. The topic is about cleavers, which surely includes bone cleavers.

 

A good bone cleaver is not only thick, but heavier. Your knife is less than half the weight of my cleaver. It's almost the same weight as my regular cleaver (菜刀 - cài dāo, literally "vegetable knife", but also meaning "food knife".)

Edited March 29, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[btbyrd]

Because the OP specifically said they weren’t looking for a cleaver to chop through bones. And I know what a cai dao is.

Edited March 29, 2023 by btbyrd (log)

[liuzhou]

1 hour ago, btbyrd said:

Because the OP specifically said they weren’t looking for a cleaver to chop through bones. And I know what a cai dao is.

 

Indeed. But the conversation has widened since, as they often do. The title is a clue! At least, I posted about a cleaver. You posted about something decidedly not a cleaver, as you took the trouble to point out.

You may know what a 菜刀 is but there are others in the conversation, who may not.

Edited March 29, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[btbyrd]

Ah, I thought you were addressing me specifically. 

 

3 hours ago, liuzhou said:

A good bone cleaver is not only thick, but heavier. Your knife is less than half the weight of my cleaver. It's almost the same weight as my regular cleaver (菜刀 - cài dāo, literally "vegetable knife", but also meaning "food knife".)

 

Western debas are plenty heavy. There is no doubt about that for anyone who has held one. But weight is only part of the story. Weight per se doesn't matter much; how that mass is distributed matters more. That determines the balance point of the knife and how much the weight of the knife does the cutting for you. My CCK stainless #2 cai dao weighs 280g and is 205mm long. My small western deba from Kajiwara weighs just 15 grams more than the CCK and is 170mm in length. Here they are side by side. First, the spine of the knives:

 

 

Now the choils:

 

 

I'm certain that the knife on the left weighs less than your cai dao, but I'm also certain that it's way better at cutting through bones. It's obviously better than my CCK, even though they weigh basically the same. The Tojiro 240mm works in many ways better, even though it's thinner, because the balance point is so far forward. It lives to hack through things. Is it as robust or heavy as a bone chopping cleaver? No. But like I said, I don't have much need for cleavers of that kind. It's my anti-cleaver meat "cleaver."

[SusieQ]

On 3/28/2023 at 1:41 AM, liuzhou said:

This is my bone cleaver. 1.2 kg of knife. I

Wow, that's quite the blade!

[chromedome]

54 minutes ago, SusieQ said:

Wow, that's quite the blade!

Seeing it caused me to realize that I have a perfectly good hatchet, which in fact was in my office (long story) at the time I saw that post. Should I need to chop bones at any point, I think I'll probably just give my hatchet a good wash and use that.

[haresfur]

2 hours ago, chromedome said:

Seeing it caused me to realize that I have a perfectly good hatchet, which in fact was in my office (long story) at the time I saw that post. Should I need to chop bones at any point, I think I'll probably just give my hatchet a good wash and use that.

 

Mine is more of an intermediate between a hatchet and an axe that you can barely get two hands on. It somehow ended up staying with me after a summer doing mineral exploration up north and was ideal for smaller trees and sharpening claim posts. I did however have it sharp enough to shave hair off my arm. I suppose I should get the bit of rust off in case I need it for food.

[fledflew]

I know this comment is a little late for the OP, as they have already given a gift card, but I'll add my perspective for others (and in case the gift card still needs to be used).  This Dexter is the one that my mom has used for many decades and my sister has the same one as well.  Very nice, light, balanced and suitable for almost all kitchen tasks involving meat and vegetables (with the exception of hacking through substantial bones).  

Dexter S5198 8" x 3-1/4" Chinese Chefs Knife with Wooden Handle (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

 

[jedovaty]

On 5/1/2023 at 1:00 PM, fledflew said:

Dexter S5198 8" x 3-1/4" Chinese Chefs Knife with Wooden Handle (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

Not original poster, but I really like this, thank you!

I was further curious and put the asian looking text into google translate: "Chinese kitchen knife".  😁

[liuzhou]

13 hours ago, jedovaty said:

Not original poster, but I really like this, thank you!

I was further curious and put the asian looking text into google translate: "Chinese kitchen knife".  😁

 

Yes. It is written in Traditional characters as used in Hong Kong and among much of the Chinese diaspora. In full it reads "Dexter Brand Chinese Style Kitchen Knife", "dài sī tè pái huá shì chú dāo", dài sī tè being a phonetic 'translation' of Dexter. That they say Chinese 'style' suggests it isn't made in China.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Recently I acquired a new knife block that has a cleaver slot.  I have never used a cleaver in my life but of course I had to have one.  Enoking seems to be a decent Chinese brand of cooking knifes.  I have their paring knife and their nakiri.  Yes, I know, I have an exceptional Japanese Watanabe nikkiri, but I find the Enoking smaller, lighter, less precious, and thus more likely to get used.

 

My cleaver came today:

(eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

 

At the moment amazon has a deal at $23.09, less 5% with coupon.  How could I pass it up?  I was surprised how heavy the cleaver feels in hand for its small size.  I measured the weight at 746 gm.  A suggested use is as an outdoor axe for cutting wood.  The blade does not appear to be stainless, so caring for it properly may take some getting used to.

 

I'd love if @James would share which cleaver her son ended up getting.