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I think my range is on the way out.....decisions decisions

TechieTechie

By TechieTechie
in Kitchen Consumer

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TechieTechie

TechieTechie

Posted
Posted (edited)

Background: I purchased a lovely 100 year old brick home about 18 months ago and have completed a number of intensive renovations (electric rewire, tuckpointing, garage roof, foundation waterproofing, tree removal). Given the amount of work undertaken on the house, cooking has not been the highest priority. The kitchen is tiny (only 4 feet of uninterrupted countertop), but I've whipped up some nice meals using the 5 year old GE Profile 5 burner gas range. So, about 6 months ago, the stove threw an error message that self resolved. No big deal, I thought.

 

Current: Cooking up a huge batch of polenta this morning, the stove has thrown another error. Flipped the breaker and nothing happened, but I was still using the stove. Will try again once the stove cools down...but I suspect I'm going to be replacing the stove in the not so distant future (these stoves are known for failing control panels).

 

Initially, my long term goal was to expand the kitchen (cantilevered bumpout and knocking down a wall between the kitchen and breakfast nook) and at that point, buy a 36" Bluestar Platinum. However, given the amount of unexpected work I've had to tackle, I'm not sure I want to dump another $50k or $75k into this house, since it's just little old me (and I'm not sure this is my forever home). Although I would kill for more usable counterspace.

 

So, if I have to replace the range, I could easily slide in a Bluestar 30" and probably be happy UNTIL I kick myself once I start the potential kitchen reno. OR, I could buy the 36" now and steal 6 inches from a end counter/cabinet set (which is 12 inches of mostly dead space now). But that certainly increases the cost of the current 'oops'. Or, I could buy the 30" now, and then if the kitchen reno comes along, sell it and use the proceeds towards the new range.

 

Anyone face this before? Thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited by TechieTechie (log)
  • Like 1
blue_dolphin

blue_dolphin

Posted
Posted

If you're considering a remodel, I think it's worth considering how wedded you are to a range, and as @palo said, to gas.  I currently have a 36-inch gas cooktop and 2 electric wall ovens. Prior to that, I had gas ranges. The cooktop is nice, though I'd also be fine with 30-inches and will certainly replace it with induction when the time comes.  What I don't need (cooking mostly for myself) is a huge oven.  Yes, indeed, very handy to be able to put 4 pies on a shelf and bake 8 at a time or a 30 lb turkey with room to spare for sides but isn't really my life these days. My little countertop oven gets the most use and one 28-inch wall oven is plenty big.

  • Like 3
gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted

Electronics and heat don't mix all that well. I lean towards old tech for ranges. Who needs to program a stove (unless its a highly cool steam oven)?

  • Like 3
TechieTechie

TechieTechie

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted (edited)

Thanks, but I'm not asking for the type of range. I want a gas range. I already have an induction hob and use it sporadically (I find the temp controls too fiddly and hate that you can't get a very low consistent simmer). And I want high powered gas for wok and indoor (long winters) grilling. And it's either 30" or 36" (as that's all I have room for). No double wall ovens (as the range oven, plus my countertop Wolf oven) are more than enough. Heck, I even have my old school MagicChef catering oven should I need more firepower around the holidays. And I'd prefer the 36" because of the 6, instead of 5, burners. And I can't go any larger than 36" because even the potentially expanded kitchen is not huge.

 

So, the question is, how many of you have had to buy an range right before a remodel? Did you end up buying the 'final' range or the 'right now' range.

 

I have 4 options:

1. Replace the current motherboard (and wait for it to go out again)...$600 down the drain

2. Go cheap and buy a no frills 30" range until the remodel (which may never come). Same price as the stove repair.

3. Buy a Bluestar 30", like it now, and potentially sell if/when I remodel

4. Buy a Bluestar 36", love it now, and rework the counters/cabinets, with an eye towards renovation.

 

And GF, I'm with you. I worked around professional kitchens for more than a decade. I want old school with the only electronics being the igniters. Leaning towards #3, but I hate the fact that I'd lose several thousand if/when the reno comes (assuming I'd sell the 30" Bluestar at 1/2 the price of a new one).

 

Thanks!

Edited by TechieTechie (log)
  • Like 2
chromedome

chromedome

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, TechieTechie said:

Thanks, but I'm not asking for the type of range. I want a gas range. I already have an induction hob and use it sporadically (I find the temp controls too fiddly and hate that you can't get a very low consistent simmer). And I want high powered gas for wok and indoor (long winters) grilling. And it's either 30" or 36" (as that's all I have room for). No double wall ovens (as the range oven, plus my countertop Wolf oven) are more than enough. Heck, I even have my old school MagicChef catering oven should I need more firepower around the holidays. And I'd prefer the 36" because of the 6, instead of 5, burners. And I can't go any larger than 36" because even the potentially expanded kitchen is not huge.

 

So, the question is, how many of you have had to buy an range right before a remodel? Did you end up buying the 'final' range or the 'right now' range.

 

I have 4 options:

1. Replace the current motherboard (and wait for it to go out again)...$600 down the drain

2. Go cheap and buy a no frills 30" range until the remodel (which may never come). Same price as the stove repair.

3. Buy a Bluestar 30", like it now, and potentially sell if/when I remodel

4. Buy a Bluestar 36", love it now, and rework the counters/cabinets, with an eye towards renovation.

 

And GF, I'm with you. I worked around professional kitchens for more than a decade. I want old school with the only electronics being the igniters. Leaning towards #3, but I hate the fact that I'd lose several thousand if/when the reno comes (assuming I'd sell the 30" Bluestar at 1/2 the price of a new one).

 

Thanks!

My takeaway from the above is "Please help me rationalize Option #4!" You're in the right place for that, there's quite an accomplished crew of enablers hereabouts. :P

 

I haven't been in your shoes yet, though there's a kitchen upgrade in our not too distant future. Personally I'd have a concern about taking out that small 12-inch "mostly dead" space (to quote The Princess Bride, "there's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead"). I've lost one of those little 12-inch beside-the-range cupboards in a rental (it basically fell apart, and the landlord took it out without replacing it), and I missed it more than I'd anticipated. YMMV, and of course the extra burner and 6 inches of stovetop may be worth it in your case. Similarly, because it's not yet certain that this is your "forever home," losing storage space in the short term could narrow your pool of potential buyers should you opt to sell. The stove would compensate for that with some buyers, but to a lot of them it might also smack of that cliche about the low-value used car with the $10,000 stereo inside.

 

I'm not saying those things necessarily matter to you, just spitballing here.

  • Like 1

“Who loves a garden, loves a greenhouse too.” - William Cowper, The Task, Book Three

 

"Not knowing the scope of your own ignorance is part of the human condition...The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you’re a member of the Dunning-Kruger club.” - psychologist David Dunning

 

"My imagination makes me human and makes me a fool; it gives me all the world and exiles me from it." Ursula K. Le Guin

TechieTechie

TechieTechie

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted (edited)

A

20 minutes ago, chromedome said:

My takeaway from the above is "Please help me rationalize Option #4!" You're in the right place for that, there's quite an accomplished crew of enablers hereabouts. :P

 

I haven't been in your shoes yet, though there's a kitchen upgrade in our not too distant future. Personally I'd have a concern about taking out that small 12-inch "mostly dead" space (to quote The Princess Bride, "there's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead"). I've lost one of those little 12-inch beside-the-range cupboards in a rental (it basically fell apart, and the landlord took it out without replacing it), and I missed it more than I'd anticipated. YMMV, and of course the extra burner and 6 inches of stovetop may be worth it in your case. Similarly, because it's not yet certain that this is your "forever home," losing storage space in the short term could narrow your pool of potential buyers should you opt to sell. The stove would compensate for that with some buyers, but to a lot of them it might also smack of that cliche about the low-value used car with the $10,000 stereo inside.

 

I'm not saying those things necessarily matter to you, just spitballing here.

Agree. That 12 inches is helpful as the countertop holds my tool containers,  and the cabinets hold my spices, handtowels/hotpads, and various other crap. And, I'd be concerned about that heat so close to the wall, not to mention it would be a fair amount of rework (new venting, likely having to move an outlet). And, a 36 inch range in a tiny kitchen would just look odd.

 

If it died at the time of renovation (or right before) I'd have no problems making do (and splurging for the 36"...I'm with you GF). But I suspect it could be years before I renovate, if at all. Around here, high end ranges are not common (I'm in a midsized city) so even a $5k range would probably cause people to go huh? Particularly if I don't renovate.

 

For those of you with a Bluestar 30" do you ever feel like your pans are 'crowded'?  Anything else you don't like (save the issues with the early versions of the range)?

 

Really, the only downside (of getting the 30" now) is the risk of 'losing' $2-3k down the road if/when I sell to make room for the 36" during a potential future reno.

 

 

Edited by TechieTechie (log)
gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted

One analysis approach might be to amortize the extra cost of the $36"  over the number of years you plan to be in the house.  If you'll be there a while then perhaps recovery of cost in a home sale is not so important.

  • Like 2
weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, TechieTechie said:

For those of you with a Bluestar 30" do you ever feel like your pans are 'crowded'?  Anything else you don't like (save the issues with the early versions of the range)?

 

 

I've got that "other" gas range, a 30" wolf, and the pans are never crowded. If you're just cooking for one or two 97.5% of the time, it's never a problem.

 

I'm also in a pretty small one-bedroom apartment, and a 36" range, while it would've been cool to have that size, was just not the right decision.

  • Like 3

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Margaret Pilgrim

Margaret Pilgrim

Posted
Posted
On 11/12/2022 at 5:57 PM, gfweb said:

Electronics and heat don't mix all that well. I lean towards old tech for ranges. Who needs to program a stove (unless its a highly cool steam oven)?

Absolutely!    The fewer bells and whistles, the fewer service calls.

eGullet member #80.

paulraphael

paulraphael

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 11/12/2022 at 8:57 PM, gfweb said:

Electronics and heat don't mix all that well. I lean towards old tech for ranges. Who needs to program a stove (unless its a highly cool steam oven)?

 Exactly. Whatever you get, avoid things that can have errors that generate error messages.

 

I'm in your boat right now, kind of. In a new (to us) 120 year-old house that ravenously devours money. I'd love to replace the 30" electric range with a 36" Bluestar. But there's no budget this year for a major kitchen Reno. I have the luxury of waiting, because the stupid electric range is not broken (yet). Also the kitchen isn't starved for workspace. 

 

Sounds to me like you need that 6" of counter space more than another pair of burners. If this is true, go for the 30" range. The cool factor of the big one might come with a worse workflow.

 

I want 36" for fairly specific reasons. I'd like to have the so-called simmer burner front center, because I do lots of sauces, and the regular open burners are too big for things like the 0.75L saucepans I often use. I also find crowding to be a nuisance with big stock pots and 12" skillets, etc. 

 

But 36" ranges have some drawbacks. One is that the oven is probably going to be bigger and more energy-hungry than what you need most of the time. I don't think you get more power with the 36" oven, which means you'll get longer preheat times. The 30" ovens are plenty big. I believe they'll take a full-sheet pan (can someone confirm?)

Edited by paulraphael (log)
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Notes from the underbelly

TechieTechie

TechieTechie

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted (edited)

Well, I did my scouting trip. I was amazed how well my 10qt saucepan and 6qt saute fit, side by side, on a 30" bluestar...and the build quality. Miles ahead of mass market crap. But I'd forgetten about the installation specs. I'd have to

 

1. Remove some of the tile backsplash

2. Poke a new hole in the exterior (for the larger exhaust)

3. Relocate the OTR microwave (and either rework another cabinet or give up valuable counter space)

4. Add new exhaust

5. Rewire my current 240v dual fuel outlet to 120v.

 

Along with buying the 30" range. 

 

But given the holiday timing, stress levels (and that I just dropped a boatload on a larger than expected foundation waterproofing project) I may go the cheap route for now and repair the range. It's not terrible when it works. Even if it allows me to delay a year or two. But boy, I really really want my kitchen reno so that I can plop in a 36" :) It's one sexy beast.

 

Hey, can someone validate, is there another, non Bluestar, grill option that can be used with a 30"? The BS grill is massive.

 

And, yes, the 30" can take a full sheet (one of the reasons Houzz doesn't like the Platinum is b/c the different convection blower doesn't circulate well around a full sheet).

Edited by TechieTechie (log)
  • Like 1
Katie Meadow

Katie Meadow

Posted
Posted

When we moved into our house the previous kitchen renovation had been done in the late 60's I  believe. Although the kitchen is big the space for the stove was 30 inches. The cabinetry is solid and well built and we didn't have the money to replace it nor did we have the money or vision to start hacking away at it to make room for a 36 inch stove. We needed to replace the dishwasher and the fridge, and replace the floor, which was awful. We splurged on a 30" Viking and I love it to pieces. Despite being a bit over 30 years old with a few quirks, it's still a workhorse. We were three and now we are two, and the older I get the more I like the powerful flame and the less I need another six inches. My pots and pans don't seem crowded and the stove accommodates a pretty good size wok. In your words, it's become the final range.The house was built in 1915. Most people who buy an old house fix it up one thing at a time unless money is no object. My advice is to live in the space for a while before gutting it. In a few years you will have a better idea of what you really want. 

  • Like 4
Dr. Teeth

Dr. Teeth

Posted
Posted
On 11/14/2022 at 8:09 PM, TicTac said:

Bigger in this case, is (also) better.

 

 

Eeehh.   I dunno about that.    I recently looked at ranges because we are in the process of a remodel.   I don’t think the 36” offers a whole lot more than the 30” range unless there is something very particular about the range top layout that appeals to you.  Up to 36” inches it’s just a larger, single oven.   And there’s usually a premium on the 36” range.  And hood.  Bigger ranges only offer a lot more if you have the space to go to 48” IMO.   If you did a field trip (which I think is the best step, nobody else on the site understands how you cook) and your pans weren’t crowded on the 30, I would personally go with the 30”, the minute you get to fooling with cabinets the money goes up rapidly.   Seems like a lot of expense for a not forever kitchen.

 

At the risk of a very unpopular opinion I would look at other options in addition to the Bluestar before you buy.   I had wanted one for forever, but when it came time to buy, I looked at a number of sites that had them as the brand most likely to require service.   Yale appliance repair IIRC had their service rates at over 60%.   And Yale sells blue stars.  If you get a good one they are great, if not it’s a pain.    There is a thread here from a member who has had some trouble with his.   They are also no longer the only game in town for high BTU.

 

But it’s your money.   I hope you enjoy whatever you end up with.

  • 4 weeks later...
paulraphael

paulraphael

Posted
Posted

Blue Star the disaster that they were several years ago. The company did a redesign of the problem parts (in 2016 maybe?) and now their reliability is closer to average for high-end ranges. Which sadly isn't anything to brag about. 

 

When you look at complaints, look closely. These ranges have qualities some consider a feature and others a bug. They're designed to be user-maintained. Things like ignitors (even in the oven) are user serviceable. The ranges come apart like lego (you rarely need more than a Philips screw driver) and many of the parts that need replacing are industry standard—so you don't even have to replace with Blue star OEM parts. 

 

People who expect a luxury product that will never ask them to pick a screwdriver are not thrilled with this bargain. Know which team you're on.

 

It's true that Blue Star is is not the only game in town for high BTUs. But if you want true open burners—and for me this is not negotiable—there are only three makers left: Blue Star, American Range, and Capital. 

  • Like 1

Notes from the underbelly

gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted

I've been very happy with my Blue Star for the past 6 years or so. Not one problem.

As @paulraphael says its designed to be a high BTU minimalist thing. No electronics other than a thermostat for the oven, a fan,  ignitors, and a light.  The open burners are a real joy to clean-up...if cleaning can be a joy.

  • Like 2
afs

afs

Posted
Posted
On 11/13/2022 at 9:37 AM, TechieTechie said:

Thanks, but I'm not asking for the type of range. I want a gas range. I already have an induction hob and use it sporadically (I find the temp controls too fiddly and hate that you can't get a very low consistent simmer). And I want high powered gas for wok and indoor (long winters) grilling. And it's either 30" or 36" (as that's all I have room for).


I know you're not looking at induction stoves, but I thought I'd throw in a few thoughts just to give you more info for your decision:
 

  1. A lot of induction stoves provide really poor user experiences, especially around temperature/intensity control and doubly so when they have a single small coil.  I understand your pain.
  2. I have two Breville Control Freaks.  The temperature controls are dead on, and a low consistent simmer is stupid simple.
  3. I'm looking at a 3600W Hatco induction unit (which has 100 levels of intensity and should have fairly good temperature control).  I'm also looking at a 3800W Vollrath 4-series induction unit (which has similar intensity controls plus it's designed to work with woks).  Plus there are wok-shaped induction units from Mr. Induction etc.
  4. I know that all of the above are probably not what you're looking for (since you're mostly looking for a built-in range).  So I'll also point you at the Thermador Freedom Induction cooktop which has dozens of small coils that combine together to offer large burners and high-powered burners.  Unfortunately it only has 17 levels of power--which is honestly probably enough--but I'm not sure how accurately it would simmer.

I used to be a huge fan of gas.  I know that induction has its pros and cons vs. gas, but it has really won me over with the consistent quality, low energy use and lack of waste heat in my kitchen.  Any time a friend is buying a new range as a long-term purchase, I at least try to make sure they know about the modern induction options.

In any case, I am looking forward to hearing what you install.  Please take photos for us :)

  • 10 months later...
TechieTechie

TechieTechie

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted (edited)

All, I realized I never came back to 'close the loop'. I was able to figure out the control panel was fried...replaced (for about $600) and I am back to a functioning gas stove. Which is good b/c when I was 'retiling' the front porch, we discovered rotted floor joists, so a smallish job turned into a pretty big one.

 

Kitchen updates gonna be on hold for awhile.....

 

Thanks for all the input, tho!

Edited by TechieTechie (log)
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chromedome

chromedome

Posted
Posted

It's always good to get the followup. :)

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“Who loves a garden, loves a greenhouse too.” - William Cowper, The Task, Book Three

 

"Not knowing the scope of your own ignorance is part of the human condition...The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you’re a member of the Dunning-Kruger club.” - psychologist David Dunning

 

"My imagination makes me human and makes me a fool; it gives me all the world and exiles me from it." Ursula K. Le Guin

Laurentius

Laurentius

Posted
Posted
On 11/13/2022 at 5:37 AM, TechieTechie said:

Thanks, but I'm not asking for the type of range. I want a gas range. I already have an induction hob and use it sporadically (I find the temp controls too fiddly... 

 

Same here.

 

What I'd do would be mostly driven by how far off the remodel is.  If soon, I'd try limping along with what you have--$600 isn't that bad.  If it's a ways off, but you're SURE it's happening, I'd buy the unit you want for the new kitchen.  If you think you might just sell the house, plunk in a builders-grade appliance.

Deephaven

Deephaven

Posted
Posted
On 11/13/2022 at 7:37 AM, TechieTechie said:

Thanks, but I'm not asking for the type of range. I want a gas range. I already have an induction hob and use it sporadically (I find the temp controls too fiddly and hate that you can't get a very low consistent simmer). And I want high powered gas for wok and indoor (long winters) grilling. 

Glad you found a fix for your current unit.  In the future though I suggest a more serious look at induction.  I have bluestar and the two critical things you cite are definitely the strength of induction and not the bluestar.  Even on the 8k burner with a deflection plate and an extra 2 stacked grates you can't simmer on the range.  I gave up and do it in my oven.  Wok cooking as well.  Compared to other gas ranges (wolf/dacor directly tested often) it is brilliant but even the cheaper wolf induction destroys it.  Shocking how much less "boiling" proteins do on the induction.  After a bunch of testing my bluestar is about to get sold.  It's a 36" range top, but about to be a 36" induction.  Was a hard swallow as well since I have a near complete collection of deherrelin copper.

paulraphael

paulraphael

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Deephaven said:

Glad you found a fix for your current unit.  In the future though I suggest a more serious look at induction.  I have bluestar and the two critical things you cite are definitely the strength of induction and not the bluestar.  Even on the 8k burner with a deflection plate and an extra 2 stacked grates you can't simmer on the range.  I gave up and do it in my oven.  Wok cooking as well.  Compared to other gas ranges (wolf/dacor directly tested often) it is brilliant but even the cheaper wolf induction destroys it.  Shocking how much less "boiling" proteins do on the induction.  After a bunch of testing my bluestar is about to get sold.  It's a 36" range top, but about to be a 36" induction.  Was a hard swallow as well since I have a near complete collection of deherrelin copper.

 

What induction cooktop did you settle on?

 

With the bluestar simmer, are you sure it can't just be adjusted lower? I haven't heard this complaint before. Here's a how-to.

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Notes from the underbelly

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