New Toy: Breville/Polyscience Control Freak!

jaw · June 25, 2020

13 hours ago, teonzo said:

You should contact their customer service, asking to implement these ideas in one of their next firmware updates. They should be open to these suggestions, since you help them making a better product.

Teo

i thought about it, but frankly i don't think they'll listen to me.

first, they don't even provide firmware upgrades to end users anymore. why? this is all pure speculation, but i would guess that they've determined that their target demographic is not technically proficient enough to carry out the procedure, and providing that as an option to people just makes more trouble on their end than it's worth. also, depending on how they designed the firmware upgrader, it could even result in bricked machines if people do it wrong.

second, this product is relatively mature. it's been out for a while and works great. they have zero history of adding features to it despite the fact that there is (imo) room for improvement that could be implemented purely in software, so i don't see why they'd start just because i ask.

third, i generally haven't been impressed with their customer support in the past. using their contact form on their site, i never got a response. using phone support, i got bounced around back and forth between breville and PSC and maybe some other company. the only way i received satisfactory support was by hunting around online and finding an employee's email address. to their credit (or to his credit, rather), i did at that point receive excellent support.

finally, the economy is fucked. i'm sure their business is hurting, especially since it's directly coupled to an industry that's in real pain. i don't think they're going to set their engineers to work on things that aren't going to directly make them money. they're probably on maintenance / life support mode. imo, the fact that they're doing a free-trial promotion to clear out refurb machines could be seen as evidence of this. maybe.

but i think the CF is a great product, so i'll send David @ PSC my suggestions just for the heck of it. maybe i was being too cynical. you've convinced me, Teo.

On 11/20/2019 at 5:00 PM, jaw said:

i got in touch with David at PSC. he got back to me quickly and was very nice to deal with.

here's what i found out:

due to a change in policy, the firmware is no longer user-upgradeable

firmware updates will no longer be provided to end users by support

the user manual will eventually be updated to remove references to the software update procedure

firmware can be updated by service, but the unit has to be sent in

there's no fee to do that in-warranty. it was also suggested that there wouldn't be a fee to do it out-of-warranty if an update were required to resolve an actual issue with the unit

i forgot to ask who covers shipping, so i'll follow up with that info later if i learn more

i was told that the only firmware update available was to fix a harmless "communication error" bug affecting less than 1% of units

if you aren't already seeing that error, the issue probably won't manifest in the future

i never tried contacting Breville online support chat, but i sort of don't care anymore since i've been told that there aren't any useful firmware updates available.

Edited June 26, 2020 by jaw (log)

EsaK · June 26, 2020

After browsing the 23 pages and without much experience with induction cooktops, I wondered if it's possible to use the Control Freak with standard GN/Gastro-Norm Stainless Steel trays? I also couldn't find the exact size of the heating area, can anyone help with that? I'm wondering if it would be possible to use a 32.5 x 26.5 cm (12.8" x 10.4") GN 1/2 tray on it (I think it wouldn't matter if a few centimeters from the edges would be out of range, assuming there aren't edges that lift the whole thing too high to be in proper contact at all?)

teonzo · June 26, 2020

16 hours ago, jaw said:

i thought about it, but frankly i don't think they'll listen to me.

16 hours ago, jaw said:

but i think the CF is a great product, so i'll send David @ PSC my suggestions just for the heck of it. maybe i was being too cynical. you've convinced me, Teo.

The best way to remain in business is making the best product possible and giving the best customer service possible. If they are not willing to listen to this kind of constructive suggestions to improve their product, well, then they can't complain if their sales are tanking.

Teo

CanadianHomeChef · June 26, 2020

12 hours ago, EsaK said:

After browsing the 23 pages and without much experience with induction cooktops, I wondered if it's possible to use the Control Freak with standard GN/Gastro-Norm Stainless Steel trays? I also couldn't find the exact size of the heating area, can anyone help with that? I'm wondering if it would be possible to use a 32.5 x 26.5 cm (12.8" x 10.4") GN 1/2 tray on it (I think it wouldn't matter if a few centimeters from the edges would be out of range, assuming there aren't edges that lift the whole thing too high to be in proper contact at all?)

The manual states a maximum bottom surface of 10" in diameter. The induction coils aren't this thick so it does count on your pans having good conductivity. You can also go larger, but then good conductivity starts mattering more and more if you want to heave as even heat as possible across the pan.

EsaK · June 27, 2020

12 hours ago, CanadianHomeChef said:

The manual states a maximum bottom surface of 10" in diameter. The induction coils aren't this thick so it does count on your pans having good conductivity. You can also go larger, but then good conductivity starts mattering more and more if you want to heave as even heat as possible across the pan.

Thanks @CanadianHomeChef! So the rim (or is there not a rim at all, hard to see from any video/photo?) as pointed out in the below screenshot, shouldn't be an issue? I mean if a pan goes beyond the rim, it should still get contact and heat?

Quickly checking Modernist Cuisine, I suppose GN pans aren't the greatest conductors with their relative thinness, when comparing to for example regular frying pans. Would be curious to hear still if anyone has used GN pans on their Control Freak.

**jbates** · June 27, 2020

2 hours ago, EsaK said:

Thanks @CanadianHomeChef! So the rim (or is there not a rim at all, hard to see from any video/photo?) as pointed out in the below screenshot, shouldn't be an issue? I mean if a pan goes beyond the rim, it should still get contact and heat?

Quickly checking Modernist Cuisine, I suppose GN pans aren't the greatest conductors with their relative thinness, when comparing to for example regular frying pans. Would be curious to hear still if anyone has used GN pans on their Control Freak.

The glass rim is nice and smooth and the steel falls away so an oversized pan will have no issues, but I would recommend placing the pan so the longer side faces the user, so it doesn't cover the control panel.

I have used a large Kuhn Rikon pressure cooker (hotel style) that is over 11 inches in diameter and it worked fine, but it's round and definitely a lot thicker than a GN pan so the sides heated up quite rapidly. (I haven't measured the differential across the surface yet - anyone want to buy me an IR camera? 😁)

I haven't tried a GN pan on mine yet, but I'll do a test for you soon. I think a good start would be a pan full of eggs, starting with a cold pan.

**ElsieD** · June 27, 2020

What is a GN pan?

EsaK · June 27, 2020

1 minute ago, ElsieD said:

What is a GN pan?

Standardised sizes of pans made of stainless steel (18/10 I think usually), different plastics etc. I don't know if these are used in the US, but at least in Europe these are the standard that the food industry uses.

Many thanks for doing a trial @jbates, looking forward to hearing what you find!

**curls** · June 27, 2020

1 hour ago, ElsieD said:

What is a GN pan?

A GN pan is a Gastronorm pan... more info on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastronorm

The US version is usually called a hotel pan and the standard sizes are in inches (vs. Gastronorm pan are sized in mm). https://www.webstaurantstore.com/52489/stainless-steel-steam-table-pans-and-hotel-pans.html

Edited June 27, 2020 by curls (log)

btbyrd · June 27, 2020

On 6/26/2020 at 3:56 AM, EsaK said:

I'm wondering if it would be possible to use a 32.5 x 26.5 cm (12.8" x 10.4") GN 1/2 tray on it (I think it wouldn't matter if a few centimeters from the edges would be out of range, assuming there aren't edges that lift the whole thing too high to be in proper contact at all?)

A pan of this size is too large for the element. Induction cookware heats the pan itself, and only the part of the pan that is directly above the induction element. Even with thick stainless cookware (like All Clad D7), the sections of the pan that aren't above the burner are significantly cooler than the center of the pan. If one tries to boil water, for instance, with an 1800W standard induction element, one can see that only the center of the pot or pan bottom actually boils. Heating a GN pan of that size will produce a hot spot in the center and a cold zone around the outside, especially in a pan that's solid stainless steel (which does not heat very evenly).

jandreas · June 28, 2020

I tried this without a liquid just to see the heating pattern. This is what happens after about 20 seconds with it set to 200F.

palo · June 28, 2020

It looks like there might be some kind of coating on the pan as that temperature for such a short time to have that result is strange. The pan's thickness might also be at play here.

p

CanadianHomeChef · June 28, 2020

On 6/27/2020 at 3:46 AM, EsaK said:

Thanks @CanadianHomeChef! So the rim (or is there not a rim at all, hard to see from any video/photo?) as pointed out in the below screenshot, shouldn't be an issue? I mean if a pan goes beyond the rim, it should still get contact and heat?

Quickly checking Modernist Cuisine, I suppose GN pans aren't the greatest conductors with their relative thinness, when comparing to for example regular frying pans. Would be curious to hear still if anyone has used GN pans on their Control Freak.

There's nothing to stop you from overhanging the black square on top. I'd avoid doing it at the front as the heat may transfer to the controls.... but on the other hand, I've had hot oil overflow on me and cover the entire control freak. Didn't damage anything. It's built well and you can see it getting abused in a commercial kitchen and coming out fine. Weight also shouldn't be an issue --- I frequently heat up a 12 qt pot of water to get a head start on sous vide. I think technically it's over the limit stated in the manual; however, there was a promo video PolyScience produced that advocated using the CF to simmer a full 12 or 16 qt stock pot of soup overnight.

Not sure about GN pans. I use Anolon Novell Copper for my nonstick, All-Clad -Triply stainless most days for stockpots, saucepans, and skillets. I have a 10", 12" All Clad D7 Skillet and a D7 Saute Pan for when heat distribution really matters. I also use a large Le-Creuset Dutch Oven on it no problem.

Edited June 28, 2020 by CanadianHomeChef (log)

CanadianHomeChef · June 28, 2020

6 hours ago, jandreas said:

I tried this without a liquid just to see the heating pattern. This is what happens after about 20 seconds with it set to 200F.

That's quite the odd result. I've had overshoot, but never 340 degrees. Largest overshoot tends to happen on smaller pans. Most of my regular pans might have 5-10 degree overshoot that stabilize once the pan comes down to temperature (it seems like the CF software is "smart" and adapts once it learns how the pan heats up and responds to changes in power).

Also the pattern is odd as it over heated on the edges.... I'm wondering if the center of the pan did not make proper contact with the through-the-glass temperature sensor (like it was warped?)... so the machine kept heating up and up and overheat the sides that were making good contact with the glass and hence affected by the induction element? Just guessing...

Edited June 28, 2020 by CanadianHomeChef (log)

CanadianHomeChef · June 28, 2020

Also some stainless works very poorly, or not at all on induction, maybe this pan is composed of various types and hence the spotty pattern? Again guessing...

jandreas · June 29, 2020

It is a standard Winco 16-8 stainless steel SPJL-404 pan. It was flat when I placed it on the glass, however the first "ring of heat" at the very center caused it to warp almost immediately and pushed up the center where the temperature sensor is located, as the pan is very thin. And then it just snow-balled. Had there been a liquid in the pan to dissipate the heat, it might not have happened. I will try again! What I think I've noticed is that my thinner (cheap) cookware boils water faster than the thicker gear, but I haven't timed it yet to confirm.

One other thing I've noticed is that it will overheat and turn itself off, if/when the ambient temp is in the mid to high 80s (located in the caribbean so its always...) and you are heating a few quarts of oil. The fans on the bottom side need to be upgraded to push more air. So we've been supplementing them with a fan on the side. This is separate from the annoying problem of going over 392F on the dial when using oil probe control and having the unit switch back to pan control. Even so, I would replace all of my gas burners with these if possible.

Edited June 29, 2020 by jandreas (log)

dmg · June 29, 2020

I joined the club! I got mine from Testek in canada for 1.5k+gst (CAD) via amazon. I have only used it 3 times. It feels like magic. I just clarified butter (116C for 25min) without any worry and it came out perfect. I also did Heston style poached eggs (80C for 4 and 5 min) and in both cases they came delicious. I am looking forward to sharing experiences.

dmg · June 29, 2020

On 1/22/2020 at 7:52 AM, bpwhistler said:

I cooked some poached eggs this morning. The consistency was PERFECT. 183 degrees F for 4 1/2 minutes. The only problem was they stuck to the bottom of the pan. Any suggestions?

Heston Blumenthal uses a plate. He fills the pot and puts a plate upside down. You can search youtube for a video where he does it. it works. (typos fixed

Edited June 29, 2020 by dmg (log)

chromedome · June 29, 2020

1 hour ago, dmg said:

Heston Blumenthal uses a place. He wills the pot and puts a plate upside down. You can search youtube for a video where he does it. it works.

I know that was a typo, but it gave me an amusing mental image of Heston glaring at the pot in fierce concentration, willing it to poach the egg, like an out-take from The Men Who Stare at Goats...

CanadianHomeChef · July 1, 2020

On 6/29/2020 at 2:42 PM, dmg said:

I joined the club! I got mine from Testek in canada for 1.5k+gst (CAD) via amazon. I have only used it 3 times. It feels like magic. I just clarified butter (116C for 25min) without any worry and it came out perfect. I also did Heston style poached eggs (80C for 4 and 5 min) and in both cases they came delicious. I am looking forward to sharing experiences.

Welcome to the club! Where abouts in Canada are you located? No too many Control Freak owners up here

I haven't done poached eggs in a while... I really should take advantage of the CF for that... Traditionally, I'll create a little whirl pool before inserting the egg... I'm sure I did the same thing the couple times I poached an egg on the CF... don't recall it sticking

Edited July 1, 2020 by CanadianHomeChef (log)

**ElsieD** · July 1, 2020

On 6/29/2020 at 4:42 PM, dmg said:

I joined the club! I got mine from Testek in canada for 1.5k+gst (CAD) via amazon. I have only used it 3 times. It feels like magic. I just clarified butter (116C for 25min) without any worry and it came out perfect. I also did Heston style poached eggs (80C for 4 and 5 min) and in both cases they came delicious. I am looking forward to sharing experiences.

Welcome to the club!

PositiveMD · July 1, 2020

It looks like it's out of stock now. https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/commercial/cmc850.html

I went ahead and applied for the program.

dmg · July 2, 2020

7 hours ago, CanadianHomeChef said:

Welcome to the club! Where abouts in Canada are you located? No too many Control Freak owners up here

I haven't done poached eggs in a while... I really should take advantage of the CF for that... Traditionally, I'll create a little whirl pool before inserting the egg... I'm sure I did the same thing the couple times I poached an egg on the CF... don't recall it sticking

Thank you all for the welcome. I am in Victoria, BC. I did the eggs because it looked like the simplest recipe I could try. I tried doing a pancake too (as in the Breville youtube video). The bottom side looked perfect, but I did it without oil (as in the video , I guess it was a demo, not a recipe) and the pancake got 1/2 stuck to the bottom of my stainless steel pan I guess I needed to add butter. Oh, my nonstick are aluminium and are not detected, so I ordered 2 days ago the Anolon Copper (the ones you use). I'll do more experiments over the weekend.

Happy Canada day,

Slim W · July 2, 2020

Hello,

Have been following this thread for awhile. I would like to add my observations, nothing scientific. First I have had my freak for a couple years at least, hard to recall life before! I live in the Middle East and have a 220V model from what I assume is Hong Kong, serial number ends in HK and has a UK plug. I also use one in Canada which is the lower voltage /wattage model.

I have learned to only use MAX or Fast(Canadian model) when using a pot/pan full of water or oil. For anything else I use the lower settings to avoid wild overshoots, burnt milk etc. This also seems to be pan specific, my cast iron or carbon steel appear to be very excitable, Scanpan, All-Clad and Le Crueset less so. I think I would only use slow or medium with a very thin pan. Deep frying is a joy now!! Sauces, eggs breads etc a breeze. When deep frying or any high temp smoky cooking, I always do this outside. I have never had the unit overheat or shutdown, it's 41C/106F out right now and I would not hesitate using it. Maybe the 220V model has better cooling? Again these just my observations.

CHC, thank you for all your experiments and what you have documented, great resource!!!

dmg · July 2, 2020

10 hours ago, Slim W said:

I have learned to only use MAX or Fast(Canadian model) when using a pot/pan full of water or oil. For anything else I use the lower settings to avoid wild overshoots, burnt milk etc. This

thank you for the info. I have not used Max/Fast because I fear tripping a breaker. but.. it annoys me that it is the default.

does anybody know if there is a way to change the default to medium or slow?

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