Andrey Dubovic online classes

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, gfron1 said:

Thanks Jim. I thought those might have been your questions. And to Rajala - the shine isn't my goal, the decorating techniques are, and I believe many require a more powerful compressor than what I have.

 

I just took another look at the introductory video. Andrey's airbrush is an Iwata Kustom. He recommends a nozzle between 0.35 and 0.5mm and a gravity-feed rather than a side-feed or siphon model.

[Kerry Beal]

So I spoke with Andry about using my Fuji instead of adding yet another compressor to my stable of tools - he said it would likely be fine except for the 'eye' technique. A bit of fiddling around with a funny little paasche brush that I have, used only to blow air and not cocoa butter - I think I might just get away with my Iwata table top compressor. I sure hope so because I'm heading north in the middle of this course and I'm not sure I want to take all my Paasche stuff as well as the Fuji. Might mean I can't take all my other toys along!

 

I have an older Iwata brush I bought years ago - I have no idea what size the needle is - nor any idea how to figure it out. I don't see any writing on it anywhere. 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2018 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Rajala]

When he had a class he was using both one of those smaller airbrushes and a HVLP gun.

[Jim D.]

On 5/18/2018 at 5:02 PM, Rajala said:

For anyone lurking, what I've learned from friends about his technique to get a great shine with the cocoa butter;

 

He heats the cocoa butter to 50 degrees, cool it down with movements to 26-27 degrees and then heat ut up to 30 degrees with a heat gun. Then spray your molds.

 

Maybe you guys watching the videos can confirm for people interested. Not sure if my friend remember it correctly. I've always been taught that you don't need to temper in that way if you're using an airbrush, but maybe it's what you should do to get that crazy shine, combined with the right room temperature etc.

 

I try to melt my colored cocoa butter slowly so that it stays in temper, but if I overdo it (easy to do in a microwave), I add a dab of cocoa butter silk from the EZtemper. I always check the temper before I start using the cocoa butter. The method you describe Andrey as using (which is, of course, the traditional method of tempering) seems like too much trouble to me (and too messy) when I have silk ready and it does the trick almost immediately. Practically everyone says that spraying c.b. through an airbrush tempers it, but I want to have more certainty (agitation of the c.b. is only one factor in tempering). I have enough trouble with chocolates sticking in the mold to add yet another possible cause.

[Kerry Beal]

We are going to overwhelm him with 3 of us using the EZtemper taking his course.

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, Kerry Beal said:

We are going to overwhelm him with 3 of us using the EZtemper taking his course.

 

I was going to ask you about that. He mentions three methods of tempering, including Mycryo. Does he know about the EZ or have you told him? Since I assume we will be working with small amounts of chocolate at a time, I was planning to use cocoa butter silk for tempering (rather than the mess of table tempering).

[Kerry Beal]

25 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

 

I was going to ask you about that. He mentions three methods of tempering, including Mycryo. Does he know about the EZ or have you told him? Since I assume we will be working with small amounts of chocolate at a time, I was planning to use cocoa butter silk for tempering (rather than the mess of table tempering).

No idea if he knows. You want to tell him?

[Jim D.]

1 minute ago, Kerry Beal said:

No idea if he knows. You want to tell him?

Since he stresses tabling so much and implies that's what we will be doing (a marble or granite slab is on the required equipment list), I was just planning to go ahead and use silk (we don't have to video our process, do we?  ). I just posted a comment to him briefly explaining the EZtemper and describing how I use it. We'll see what he says. After all, he should have one in his kitchen, shouldn't he?

 

I was thinking it might be helpful if the three of us from eGullet had email exchanges with notes and comments as the course goes on.

[Kerry Beal]

9 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

Since he stresses tabling so much and implies that's what we will be doing (a marble or granite slab is on the required equipment list), I was just planning to go ahead and use silk (we don't have to video our process, do we?  ). I just posted a comment to him briefly explaining the EZtemper and describing how I use it. We'll see what he says. After all, he should have one in his kitchen, shouldn't he?

 

I was thinking it might be helpful if the three of us from eGullet had email exchanges with notes and comments as the course goes on.

Thanks Jim!  Indeed we should be comparing notes in the background as I suspect we might not see each other's work online 

[keychris]

you both remind me of my old maths teacher in high school... "remember to show ALL your working!"

 

show us the results too

[Pastrypastmidnight]

On 5/18/2018 at 4:02 PM, Rajala said:

For anyone lurking, what I've learned from friends about his technique to get a great shine with the cocoa butter;

 

He heats the cocoa butter to 50 degrees, cool it down with movements to 26-27 degrees and then heat ut up to 30 degrees with a heat gun. Then spray your molds.

 

Maybe you guys watching the videos can confirm for people interested. Not sure if my friend remember it correctly. I've always been taught that you don't need to temper in that way if you're using an airbrush, but maybe it's what you should do to get that crazy shine, combined with the right room temperature etc.

Kriss Harvey has also advocated a much cooler temperature than I usually see recommended. He melts the cocoa butter, then tosses it back and forth between two cups until it reaches 29C, then sprays. I haven’t tried that method yet. 

 

For those taking the class, let us know what you think of it. I wish I could take it with you—alas, life right now. But I’d love to hear your thoughts and experiences after you complete the course. 

[Jim D.]

8 hours ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

Kriss Harvey has also advocated a much cooler temperature than I usually see recommended. He melts the cocoa butter, then tosses it back and forth between two cups until it reaches 29C, then sprays. I haven’t tried that method yet. 

 

For those taking the class, let us know what you think of it. I wish I could take it with you—alas, life right now. But I’d love to hear your thoughts and experiences after you complete the course. 

 

After I did the conversion from C to F, I realized how low that temp is (I can now think in grams, but the temp thing is beyond me). If the theory of crystallization of cocoa butter is correct, then wouldn't the undesirable crystal types start reforming at that temp (with no seed being used to encourage Type V crystals to form)? The cocoa butter also starts getting really viscous at that temp. A couple of days ago I may have reached that low temp accidentally because the humidity was so bad in the basement (my spraying area) that I had to cool off the room more than usual and the c.b. really thickened. We'll see if that worked later today when I unmold.

 

I'm sure we will be providing reviews of the Dubovik course. Almost daily on Instagram he has been posting new stunning designs that aren't covered directly in the classes, but I'm hoping to learn a little about how he does what he does. It is daunting to attempt to learn those techniques from someone so talented.

[Pastrypastmidnight]

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

After I did the conversion from C to F, I realized how low that temp is (I can now think in grams, but the temp thing is beyond me). If the theory of crystallization of cocoa butter is correct, then wouldn't the undesirable crystal types start reforming at that temp (with no seed being used to encourage Type V crystals to form)? The cocoa butter also starts getting really viscous at that temp. A couple of days ago I may have reached that low temp accidentally because the humidity was so bad in the basement (my spraying area) that I had to cool off the room more than usual and the c.b. really thickened. We'll see if that worked later today when I unmold.

 

I'm sure we will be providing reviews of the Dubovik course. Almost daily on Instagram he has been posting new stunning designs that aren't covered directly in the classes, but I'm hoping to learn a little about how he does what he does. It is daunting to attempt to learn those techniques from someone so talented.

Greweling says the melting point of IV crystals is 29C, so maybe as long as you stay at that temp the IV crystals stay melted out? The reheating to 30C could be extra insurance?

 

I don’t know. I tried it with the molds I painted, sprayed and shelled last night and so far so good. I’ll report back once I fill, cap and crack them out. I have a history of everything looking perfect at this stage and then the shells readhering to the mold  .

[Jim D.]

26 minutes ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

Greweling says the melting point of IV crystals is 29C, so maybe as long as you stay at that temp the IV crystals stay melted out? The reheating to 30C could be extra insurance?

 

I don’t know. I tried it with the molds I painted, sprayed and shelled last night and so far so good. I’ll report back once I fill, cap and crack them out. I have a history of everything looking perfect at this stage and then the shells readhering to the mold  .

I can now report that the bonbons I feared might cling to the mold did not. In spite of an adverse environment when spraying the shells, 71 out of 72 fell out of the molds with little coaxing, and the 72nd came out after a few minutes in the freezer. As everyone ends up concluding, there's just no explaining it--and one can go crazy trying. When you step back a bit and consider what we are doing (forcing a part of cacao to do things it was never intended to do, adding colorants to it, blowing it through a device never meant for that purpose), it's a miracle it works at all!

[VistaGardens]

On 5/9/2018 at 5:31 AM, Jim D. said:

I posed my questions on the website of the course and got answers within minutes (apparently from Dubovik himself):

 

All the molds listed are not required, but he has to be informed of missing ones. Half-spheres are the most important, but the silicone mold listed is necessary for that particular lesson.

 

I asked about using already mixed colored cocoa butter instead of the dry colors he specifies. The answer was no. The dry colors are required "because we will need to create specific colours (satured, oversaturated, translucent)." Anyone know of a good U.S. source for those?

 

The most surprising answer was about whether there is a specific start date or a student can begin at any time. Contrary to what the website appears to state, there is a specific date. The next one is May 28 (might be helpful to list those dates somewhere on the site).

 

An answer to another person's question might be of interest:  If a student does not have all the equipment, it is possible to follow the theory provided in the course without doing (or submitting) the homework. Otherwise assignments must be submitted on a weekly basis. As I haven't had to submit homework for evaluation for some years, this option is appealing to me. I'm not sure I'm up to having Andrey Dubovik grade my work!

you asked about dry colors.  I make 95% of my colored cocoa butter using FD&C Lakes, and found this company to have very reasonable prices and good quality: FlavorsandColor.  You can find them on Amazon, and they are very helpful.  Just remember to put LAKE into your search results.  They also have the Titanium Dioxide for opacity.  Using Blue #1, Red #40 and the two yellows, along with the TD if I want opacity I can get pretty much every color but a good purple.  Think that using Blue #2 and Red#3 would fix that, but they are more often cited as "toxic" so I've stayed away from them.  Can't wait to hear how you like the class!

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, VistaGardens said:

you asked about dry colors.  I make 95% of my colored cocoa butter using FD&C Lakes, and found this company to have very reasonable prices and good quality: FlavorsandColor.  You can find them on Amazon, and they are very helpful.  Just remember to put LAKE into your search results.  They also have the Titanium Dioxide for opacity.  Using Blue #1, Red #40 and the two yellows, along with the TD if I want opacity I can get pretty much every color but a good purple.  Think that using Blue #2 and Red#3 would fix that, but they are more often cited as "toxic" so I've stayed away from them.  Can't wait to hear how you like the class!

Thank for the lead. Since the course begins next week, I had to go ahead and found dry colorants at Chef Rubber.

 

I hear that mixing them can be difficult. Do you have any hints? I am not looking forward to this procedure. I shouldn't have asked Dubovic if they were required.

[Rajala]

I never buy colored coca butter, it's easy to mix them on your own.

 

100 grams of cocoa butter, and 10 grams of color - mix it with your stick blender.

 

I keep them like this.  

 

[Bentley]

@Rajala What color powders do you use for your colored cocoa butters?   Do you use any kind of color wheel or similar method to acheive a variety of colors?  How do you achieve consistency among batches over time?  

I've been thinking about getting into making my own CCBs but so far I don't have the time to figure it all out.

[Rajala]

@BentleyI use a German brand (don't remember the name by heart), most of the colors are probably not good for you.   I also bought from a UK company once, which have like 50 colors or something. Everything just seems to be a mix of "base" colors though. So you could easily come up with your own colors by experimenting a bit. 

 

However, since everything is a hobby it's not that important to get the exact same result. But I write down what I do though, to achieve, at least, a very similar result each time. I always use a bit of white color (titanium oxide) to get the colors to be opaque. Maybe 2 grams out of 10. It all depends on how strong I want the colors to be. If I want something that's more pastel, more white.

[Kerry Beal]

Submitted my first two assignments this am.

 

 

 

 

 

[Smithy]

The colors and swirls in the bottom photo make me think of deep-space photos. Nice work, Kerry.

[Jim D.]

2 hours ago, Smithy said:

The colors and swirls in the bottom photo make me think of deep-space photos. Nice work, Kerry.

You are right on the mark. Dubovik calls it "Outer Space."

 

Kerry's version looks exactly like Dubovik's. This will be a hard act to follow.

[pastrygirl]

I like the squared mold, but that propeller one looks like a nightmare to polish.  What are the crispy-looking bits inside?

 

Outer space is gorgeous!

[Kerry Beal]

It is a bitch to polish - I rarely use it - it's huge!

 

Cara crackine and milk chocolate.

 

[RobertM]

Beautiful work Kerry......beautiful