What Are You Cooking Sous Vide Today? (Part 3)

[rotuts]

@KennethT

 

That's an excellent question.

 

it would be interesting to see if this has been looked at 

 

'not a difficult experiment to do :

 

get a supermarket roast .  SV for 3 - 4 hours,   under aseptic technique 

 

get a center sample , and future.   back in th day that would have been easy for me to do.

 

theoretically , on a roast properlly handled , the center of the met would not have bacterial contamination.

 

the exterior and manipulated surfaces for sure.

 

Obliquely , it been mentioned by reliable SV sources that it would be inappropriat

 

to SV jaccarded meat  , ie Costco routine meat , one would ask for non-jaccardedd

 

which Costco , at least back in the day would sup[ply on request 

 

there is a thread on this.

 

of course , the bacteriology might not have been actually studied.

[gfweb]

A bunch of NY strips for guests.  SV lets me forget about the cooking and be a better host. 😀

[Bernie]

10 hours ago, KennethT said:

Is anyone else concerned about bacterial buildup in the center of the roast while cooking for that amount of time?  When you have a large roast, it would probably take more than 4 hours for the center to get out of the danger zone.  It would spend a long time in the "bacterial multiplying like crazy zone" - around body temperature.  I'd be curious about everyone's thoughts about this - I haven't done much SV for quite a while but I do remember this being a concern.

Well, hopefully if the roast was originally butchered and handled correctly, there should be minimal bacteria inside the roast. The only way for it to get inside was if it "migrated" through the tissue. (much like brine...) but i am not sure bacteria would have enough difference in there chemical makeup to enhance osmosis. (chemist needed here 🙂)

On the outside it is likely you would get an increase but the time the outside is in the critical temperature range should be pretty short. To help this, thaw in the fridge or go straight from freezer to SV, that way there will be minimum buildup on the outside.

Also I think killing bacteria with heat is a time/temperature dependent process. You can sterilize with boiling water (100C) for a very short time but you can achieve the same thing with 65C water for 10 or so minutes. Even at 55C it will kill bacteria but it will take a long time.  (actually like the increase, the decrease is a numbers game. Your body can cope with small amounts of bacteria, so even sterilizing may not kill all the bacteria, jut ~99%?)

[Duvel]

7 hours ago, Bernie said:

The only way for it to get inside was if it "migrated" through the tissue. (much like brine...) but i am not sure bacteria would have enough difference in there chemical makeup to enhance osmosis. (chemist needed here 🙂)

Bacteria are cells and cannot „migrate“ through solid muscle tissue. So, the assessment that with intact muscle fibers (from a properly butchered cut) bacterial contamination would be minimal is correct. Thus for long SV times @rotuts suggestion to sterilize the surface (presear, blanching) is a good idea to minimize bacterial load in the SV bag. 
The two times I had issues with long SV times in both cases I did not tret the surface properly. But - and this might ease your minds - in both cases the bag ballooned up and the failed cook was noticeable before one took a bite. 

[rotuts]

@Bernie

 

""  Your body can cope with small amounts of bacteria "

 

this is both misleading , and completely incorrect .

 

exceptionally small amounts of certain bacteria can be lethal .

 

as this is not Index Medica , Ill leave it at that.

 

 

[gfweb]

16 hours ago, Bernie said:

. Your body can cope with small amounts of bacteria, so even sterilizing may not kill all the bacteria, jut ~99%?)

 

This depends on the type of bacteria and your overall health. Bacteria can also make toxins that cause disease without actually having an infection.

 

Long cooks at low temp is the particular SV worry.

 

 

[Kim Shook]

On 6/21/2024 at 10:10 AM, rotuts said:

@Kim Shook

 

do you want to sear then SV  or SV then sear ?

 

if sear than SV , you might season w just salt and pepper , then sear.

 

you could sear from frozen

 

after sear add granulated garlic , rosemary , Thyme  if you like those flavors.

 

garlic and herbs burn when seared.

 

then bag and SV  135 F  for 6 - 8 hours.

 

if you sear after SV , the roast may over cook ie not be med rare.

 

if searing after SV  , save jus for gravy

 

dry off  , sear quickly   and it will be ready too carve.

 

after SV  the roast does not need to rest.

 

consider pics please.

 

its going to be tasty.

 

remember w SV  time is tenderness.  once love reached your tenderness time , 

 

it can go longer and still  not be over cooked.  certainly by an hour or more.

That all sounds great!  Thank you so much.  I'll be searing first, then SV'ing.  I'll definitely take pictures!  Yesterday I made the beef stock with the rib bones.  I roasted the bones and veg in the CSO and then made the stock in the IP.  I'll be making the actual gravy later today.  

[Slim W]

This link is about a "bad smell" , but I have used this for all long SV and have never had an inflated bag. Seems like a good way to prevent any surface bacteria. 

https://stefangourmet.com/2017/11/01/how-to-prevent-a-bad-smell-with-long-and-low-sous-vide-cooks/

 

[Kim Shook]

My rib roast turned out very well.  I chose the sear, then SV method, which was a bit undermined by the fact that I scored the fat cap.  I don’t have a picture of the pre-seared roast, but this is it post-SV and out of the bag:

As you can see, I overdid the sear in some areas and some didn’t get touched at all.  But I fixed that up with a torch:

Still not sure about the scoring, but I do like the sear, then SV method.  I’m a big fan of doing what you can ahead of time and that’s one thing out of the way.  I can’t complain about the results:

I did it at 135F for 8 hours.  It was wall-to-wall medium-rare and tender and juicy.  I could call it a little bland, but that is the fact that I bought it at Kroger, I think.  Just not the most flavorful meat.  If I’d paid $50-$75/pound for it, I’m sure it would have been better.  But I didn’t and this was pretty good:

Those white marks going through the middle of the meat are bits of sunshine coming through the kitchen window – at certain times of the year dinner photos are difficult!  

[Shelby]

16 hours ago, Kim Shook said:

My rib roast turned out very well.  I chose the sear, then SV method, which was a bit undermined by the fact that I scored the fat cap.  I don’t have a picture of the pre-seared roast, but this is it post-SV and out of the bag:

As you can see, I overdid the sear in some areas and some didn’t get touched at all.  But I fixed that up with a torch:

Still not sure about the scoring, but I do like the sear, then SV method.  I’m a big fan of doing what you can ahead of time and that’s one thing out of the way.  I can’t complain about the results:

I did it at 135F for 8 hours.  It was wall-to-wall medium-rare and tender and juicy.  I could call it a little bland, but that is the fact that I bought it at Kroger, I think.  Just not the most flavorful meat.  If I’d paid $50-$75/pound for it, I’m sure it would have been better.  But I didn’t and this was pretty good:

Those white marks going through the middle of the meat are bits of sunshine coming through the kitchen window – at certain times of the year dinner photos are difficult!  

Thanks for this, Kim.  It looks delicious!  I've made a note in my SV book.  

[TdeV]

I'm making mashed potatoes!

In one pot in the Anova steam oven in sous vide mode went 1280g sliced potatoes (1/4"), a pint of cream, and a stick of butter.

The oven is set to 197ºF, 100% steam for an hour. Here's the recipe.

I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Edited to add that the mashed potaotes were a bit too watery. But, I had converted the original recipe rather loosely. The mashed potatoes had dried sufficiently by the second day they were used.

So this is a reasonable recipe/practise.

 

 

Edited July 20 by TdeV
Follow-up (log)

[TdeV]

Some advice, please. @rotuts @gfweb @Duvel

 

Anova oven has recipe for Steam Oven Pulled Pork, running 165°F / 74ºC for 18 hours, which I'm modifying with Anova's Sous Vide BBQ Pork Shoulder which suggests "Set the temperature on your Precision Cooker to 165°F / 74ºC for pull-apart tender pork, or for 145°F / 63ºC for pork that is tender but still sliceable" which can run for 18-24 hours. (I want to use the lower temperature, otherwise I'm not using any part of the second recipe).

 

I wanted your help to determine how to convert the FIRST recipe from 18 hours to 24 (easier for me to plan meal), but in the SECOND recipe, Anova seems to suggest that one can use these temps for the full 24 hours.

 

Correct?

 

 

Edited July 20 by TdeV
Clarity (log)

[rotuts]

@TdeV

 

I do not have the oven.   

 

I did a smaller pice from a pork shoulder , 2 - 3 lbs  @ 145 F for 24 hours .

 

I don't do meat any higher than that , so Ive never got true pull apart meat.

 

by choice , as I like to keep some of the jus in the meat , rather than in the pot.

 

granted , w pull apart , you mix it all back to gather , so it might not matter

 

and I though 24 hrs was a bit too long , at that temp.  it began to think about much , 

 

but want there quite yet.  if you are after pull apart , you are going to have to go

 

im guessing only , onto the 150 F ++ range.  Ive no experience w those temps

 

as I understant i , you want 24 hrs  , for planning purposes , so Id suggest 155F , for pull apart.

 

please report back .

 

BTY are you going to use a steam over , or vac's bagged water bath ?

[TdeV]

Thanks for your thoughts, @rotuts.

 

My desire, too, is to use the lowest possible temperature. I don't much care about pull apart meat*. My "usual" temp for pork shoulder is 133ºF for 3 days (using the Joule); recipe originally came from you, I believe. FWIW, I have not yet seen any official Anova oven recipes that are multi-day.

 

I am interested in trying out the dry rub (which looks like [maybe] rub can be kept dry-ish using the steam oven in sous vide mode with steam. At least, drier than inside a sous vide bag).

 

Followed by using the oven to brown the outsides of the roast.

 

Do you think 24 hours is too long to sous vide at 145ºF?

 

 

* I did read article recently about pull-apart meat which wasn't dry, because it had been sous-vided. Sorry, I can't remember what temp.

[rotuts]

@TdeV

 

interesting points .

 

how did the 3 day 133 f turn out  re  tender // pull apart // etc. ?

 

in terms of an ' open ' fully saturated environment for  low and slow:

 

the meat will contract based on the temp of the cooking .  w the SV bag 

 

the ' jus' says in the bag , and is not released to a larger environment.  

 

so far , Ive seen no posts from members w the Anova oven on low and slow

 

in terms of that jus.   its going to go somewhere , even w the high humidity 

 

not to the cooking environment as its already high , so hopefully a pan 

 

by dryness I mean the mouth feel of braised meat , sans braising liquid.  

 

the best braise , in terms of flavor , Boef w a really good burgundy ,

 

ie these says . 100 USD +++ ?  not the 30 yo you've had in your mcelar ' since birt

 

and not think that bottle of Pinot Noir  for  even $ 20 UDS is going to resemble 

 

the real stuff ...

 

that beef , plain , no sauce will feel dry in the mouth  :  less internal jus and some or most of

 

the fat rendered.

 

still very tasty as a whole unit .

 

if you chose the oven method , plus consider some pictures.

 

much appreciated by many here , but mostly Me !

Edited July 20 by rotuts (log)

[gfweb]

4 hours ago, TdeV said:

Some advice, please. @rotuts @gfweb @Duvel

 

Anova oven has recipe for Steam Oven Pulled Pork, running 165°F / 74ºC for 18 hours, which I'm modifying with Anova's Sous Vide BBQ Pork Shoulder which suggests "Set the temperature on your Precision Cooker to 165°F / 74ºC for pull-apart tender pork, or for 145°F / 63ºC for pork that is tender but still sliceable" which can run for 18-24 hours. (I want to use the lower temperature, otherwise I'm not using any part of the second recipe).

 

I wanted your help to determine how to convert the FIRST recipe from 18 hours to 24 (easier for me to plan meal), but in the SECOND recipe, Anova seems to suggest that one can use these temps for the full 24 hours.

 

Correct?

 

 

You can use the lower temp for 2 days and approach pull-apart texture. I routinely do pulled pork at 150 for 2days 

[YvetteMT]

While this may look like a fun way to spend a Sunday, it's not.  There's been a freezer mishap. This is 6 1lb packages of bear sausage and I need some guidance. Trichinae (in Northern climates) is hardier than its southern relatives and bear meat needs to hit 160F to ensure that Trichinae is killed.  Easy enough when cooking, I temp constantly.  I've decided to SV these and hopefully just toss them back into a freezer.  I've got the temp set at 164 but am unsure about time.  These are  quart bags,  1lb of ground bear/pork. Any insight into time to ensure the centers hit 160?  (Id rather not stab all the bags for temps and reseal.)

Thanks!

 

[rotuts]

@YvetteMT

 

I think you are mistaken re : killing Trichinae.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/may/26/cooking-pork-safely-the-science

 

suggests temps as low as 120F :

 

''  The FDA cooking regulations for eliminating Trichinella include temperatures as low as 49C / 120F, albeit maintained for 21 hours. (The main reason to cook at temperature that low is to process ham in the style of a "raw" ham). The regulations do not even bother to list temperatures higher than 62C / 144F because the time required to eliminate the parasite would be less than a second. '

 

and in general . 130.1 F for SV will pasteurize meat , but it might take several hours.

 

id go with 130 F  for 6  , and then you can use the meat for other things after the cooking

 

w/o drying it out via contraction.

 

or 140 or so , for 6 or even 4

 

good luck.

 

freezing alone will kill the T.

Edited September 8 by rotuts (log)

[Okanagancook]

https://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html
 

douglas baldwin is well known for his sous vide knowledge.  He has tables of cooking times and temperatures and usually include the dimensons of your product.

 

[YvetteMT]

Freezing doesn't kill T.nativa or T-6, the Trich found in Canada/ Northern US. (These bears were from Alberta Canada). Freezing should render the Trich unable to attach to a human host. Should.

I've knocked my temp down to 150 and am fine letting that go for half the day if need be. Unconcerned about drying out with contraction- these packages would ultimately be cooked in something else and not served as is. Soup, pasta sauce etc. 

 

Thanks @Okanagancook that's my next stop!!(and bookmark!)

[ElsieD]

Baldwin is great.  I even wrote to him once and received a quick reply.

[Okanagancook]

I was thinking pasteurizing the product might be the way to go and A.bauldwin has tables for that.

 

 

[YvetteMT]

Attempt 2 at an elk roast. Previously partner said it needed more seasoning so..... onion and A1 sauce this time.  140F for 8 hours. 

Will be served with SV carrots (why not. Be my first attempt at veg), onion gravey and mushrooms.

[rotuts]

@YvetteMT

 

looking forward to your reviews

 

and seeing how this turns out.

 

like the idea of some A1 for this.

[YvetteMT]

Elk turned out well.  140 for 8, seared hard.  Partner said the seasoning was far better. (I tossed his in the skillet after cutting, he's not a fan of red)

 

 

The carrots however-184 for an hour- nearly the worst carrots I've ever made.  They were still crunchy with the exception of 2 measly carrots.  I dunno what the malfunction was but they were horrible.