What Are You Cooking Sous Vide Today? (Part 3)

[Dave the Cook]

On 1/9/2018 at 1:32 PM, rotuts said:

I finally found a Chuck Tender roast a one of my supermarkets.  this cut does not seem to be marketed often around here.

 

it was of course on Sale so i thought id experiment with it.

 

 

there was a little bit of silverskin , which i removed.

 

i gave each side a few drops of RedBoat4o and some granulated garlic from Penzey's and place it on a plate

 

very loosely wrapped in the refrig and Ill go for 3 days , then bag it.  I hope to find my granulated toasted onion from Penzies by then and

 

as some to the meat before i vacuum bag and SV at 130.1

 

i think at least 24 hours , maybe 36 H

 

the goal is then to freeze and use thinly cut for steak sandwiches in the future.

 

have you SV'd this cut ?

 

what were your times and temps and final plan for the meat ?

 

thanks

 

 

We came across one of these yesterday, and being in need of some sort of sandwich filler, we grabbed it (though not for such an attractive price). I salted it generously, bagged it and let it swim at 135°F. Gonna let it go 24 hours (mostly because 36 would end at about 5 in the morning, an hour which does not normally find me in a waking state), and we'll see. All we're really trying to do is equal the quality of deli-counter roast beef at a reduced price, so I'm pretty confident -- if this experiment doesn't quite hit the mark, we'll almost certainly learn enough to nail it on round 2 (especially if we have additional data from @rotuts).

[rotuts]

@Dave the Cook

 

Id like to hear what you think of the tenderness w   24 x 135.

 

I like 'RB' for sandwiches as rare as possible., that's why Ive chosen 130.1

 

mine will no doubly have a lot of flavor added from the RedBoat40 and the garlic powder

 

Id like to know what the flavor of this cut  ---  just as beef ---  would be

 

I know it has to be better than  Round which is what most ordinary deli beef is I think.

 

Ill start mine this AM about 9   and go for 36  :  IE take it out  Sat night.

 

their is still a lot of snow outside to help w the rapid cool down !

[Dave the Cook]

10 hours ago, rotuts said:

 

Id like to hear what you think of the tenderness w   24 x 135.

 

I like 'RB' for sandwiches as rare as possible., that's why Ive chosen 130.1

 

mine will no doubly have a lot of flavor added from the RedBoat40 and the garlic powder

 

Id like to know what the flavor of this cut  ---  just as beef ---  would be

 

I know it has to be better than  Round which is what most ordinary deli beef is I think.

 

Ill start mine this AM about 9   and go for 36  :  IE take it out  Sat night.

 

their is still a lot of snow outside to help w the rapid cool down !

 

This was an almost perfect experiment. It gave us a great baseline for future tweaking, while still yielding good, edible results.

 

Since we sliced it thin, tenderness was not really an issue. Maybe another 12 hours would have made it more tender, but what I'd say is that 24 does the job, if that's the time you've got. There was a bit of internal gristle that came as a surprise -- about 2 cm x 1cm x maybe 4 slices (~5 mm).

 

We prefer medium rare to really rare, hence 135°. It was a tad closer to medium than rare, and very slightly dry; I'm not sure that 130 is going to be low enough to give you really rare meat. I was surprised at the amount of juice that came out -- a bit more than 125 ml.from a 1-kilo roast.

 

The texture is great (very slightly coarser than deli round) and it has a nice beefy flavor, if underseasoned due to the surface-only, a la minute application of salt.

 

Next time, I'll salt it a day or two ahead of time to allow the salt to penetrate a bit, which should improve the seasoning, as well as help the proteins hold on to a bit more moisture. I might also dial back the temp to maybe 132.

[rotuts]

@Dave the Cook

 

thanks for your report !

 

Id say that 130.1 F

 

which I use for Rare but Pasteurized

 

Id say its Rare +++

 

Im not quite sure where your gristle came from 

 

but no matter

 

If you can deal with RedBoat40  

 

de novo

 

try that for your salt the next time

 

as foul as it smells 

 

out of the bottle

 

that goes away when its thermalized

 

Id still consider 130.1  for the time it takes to get the meat tender

 

I think the moisture you've lost is related to the temp you've cooked at and not salt so much

 

130.1 is not as rare as Id like various meats

 

but Id like a safety factor 

 

a bit.

 

Too bad  Pasteur  didn't find 120

 

as the Point of Goodness !

 

 

Ok Ok

 

125 F,

 

just saying

[Dave the Cook]

Sure,  final temperature determines moisture loss. But I think some other things are also at play here. 

• For example, in one of our classes, we sous-vide tenderloin steaks at 136°F without this much liquid residue (we've done this many times). So the cut has something to do with it -- either chuck just has more liquid to start with, or the looser texture of the muscle allows more liquid to escape. Or both.
• Surface application of salt (which is really all I did) can accelerate moisture loss. But longer contact with surface salt leads to deeper penetration of salt into the meat (think brining, or what some call "dry brining"). And this penetration will, over time, cause affected cells to hold more moisture (see your McGee).
• Different cuts respond to temperature differently. Going back to the tenderloin steaks mentioned above, at 136°F, they're perfectly medium rare. But in the same class, we also pan-roast strip steaks using the Shaw-Ducasse method. If we let them cook to 135°, they'd be gray, or nearly so.

I like the idea of using fish sauce to provide salt and amplify umami, but I'll proceed in my usual plodding way, changing one thing at a time until it's nailed.

[FrogPrincesse]

I am making a beef stew (daube de boeuf provençale) with beef cheeks. What would be a good temperature/time combo? Right now I have them set at 65C for 24+ hours but I am worried that this might be too low.

[Okanagancook]

There is a recipe for beef cheek goulash in The Complete Sous Vide Cookbook by Chris McDonald on p 105.

cheeks cut into 3/4 in cubes and browned before going in the bag with the other usual suspects for a stew.  Cooked at 77.8 c for 12 hrs.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Okanagancook (log)

[FrogPrincesse]

@OkanagancookExcellent. Thanks!

[rotuts]

here is what I found out from my Chuck Tender Studies :

 

we knew it was not a tender cut of meat

 

but maybe SV would fix that.

 

i like rare beef , so it more or less 130.1 for me for any cut I SV

 

here is one bag    ( had three )  130 x 36 hours :

 

 

note the Jus is red not brown.  and encouraging sign  

 

there was no fish aroma and very little garlic.   I and loosely covered the three hunks of meat in the refrig for 3 days and used

 

a generous amout of RB40 and Penzies granulated garlic.  the granules are not powder and maintain good garlic flavor over time

 

here is the above cut w CSB baked russets   ( 450 steam bake   45 - 50 minutes   -- until very crunchy )

 

 

for some reason these russets were the finest Ive had in a long time :  deep earthy aroma and russet flavor.  odd how different these were

 

compared to my usual on sale bag. These were " Green Giant "  10 lbs  $ 1.99

 

 

the meat had good flavor , but Im guessing it all came from the RB40 and granulated garlic.

 

it had little to no beef flavor.   and it was Tough !

 

I let the remaining two swim around at 130 for a total 56 h , that figure just worked out well time wise.

 

here is V₂ :

 

 

the bag still has red Jus.

 

The Plate :

 

 

 

 

not a lot of difference.  still tough  , but oddly not mealy at all.

 

Potatoes remain Excellent , from the same bag.

 

I froze the last hunk and will try to make sandwiches out of it some day , sliced thinly

 

Conclusion :

 

Chuck Tender , no matter how attractive the price , is more or less worthless as  ' Roast Beef '

 

save up and get  Sirloin ' Tips ' as whole flap meat for a few dollars more.

 

that's a tasty cut and comes around on sale all the time.  the butchers Ive asked love to trim up a few flaps when you

 

ask politely.  

 

it comes around these days in my area a 4.99 / lbs   occasionally 3.99

 

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by rotuts (log)

[ElsieD]

23 hours ago, Okanagancook said:

There is a recipe for beef cheek goulash in The Complete Sous Vide Cookbook by Chris McDonald on p 105.

cheeks cut into 3/4 in cubes and browned before going in the bag with the other usual suspects for a stew.  Cooked at 77.8 c for 12 hrs.

 

 

I have some beefcheeks in the freezer.  Are you allowed to say what other "usual suspects" go into the bag with the cheeks?

[btbyrd]

I've cooked a fair amount of SV beef cheek. It's closest to short ribs, in terms of ultimate texture at various times/temps. I prefer my SV cheeks like my SV short ribs; 48/72 at 140/130, or else cooked conventionally (or in a pressure cooker).

 

And if you skip the pre-sear, you're not doing yourself any favors.

[ElsieD]

2 minutes ago, btbyrd said:

I've cooked a fair amount of SV beef cheek. It's closest to short ribs, in terms of ultimate texture at various times/temps. I prefer my SV cheeks like my SV short ribs; 48/72 at 140/130, or else cooked conventionally (or in a pressure cooker).

 

And if you skip the pre-sear, you're not doing yourself any favors.

 

And for how long do you cook them in the pressure cooker?

[rotuts]

@ElsieD

 

go with SV  130  for 72

 

unless you have more BC's to experiment with 

 

Ive never found BC's in my area

 

and I like Beef  rare-ish   ( 130 is not ultra rare )

 

and tender.

 

looking forward to your results

[btbyrd]

It depends on what I'm going for (and if I use my stovetop pressure cooker or the Instant Pot). There are dishes where the goal is to totally shred the cheeks and add them back to the braising liquid, and those go for a long time (like 45 minutes). For more traditional stew-like things, I'd try 30 minutes for a first pass and see how you like the doneness. 

[Okanagancook]

21 hours ago, ElsieD said:

 

I have some beefcheeks in the freezer.  Are you allowed to say what other "usual suspects" go into the bag with the cheeks?

A little finely diced pancetta,, diced onion carrot and red pepper, garlic, sweet paprika, a little tomato paste, a small amt. of caraway seeds, salt, pepper, flour for thickening and beef stock.  If you want quantities PM me. cheers

Edited January 16, 2018 by Okanagancook (log)

[ElsieD]

@Okanagancook  I only have a Foodsaver which as you know, doesn't work with liquid.  If I use the water displacement method I'd be worried about how the Foodsaver by would hang in for a lengthy cook.  Any suggestions?  I've had those beef cheeks for a while (and pork cheeks) and it really is time I did something with them.  I kinda like tge suggestion of the IP.

[weedy]

fill the bag... freeze it... seal it and SV

[ElsieD]

1 hour ago, weedy said:

fill the bag... freeze it... seal it and SV

 

Including the carrot and red pepper?

[Okanagancook]

Just freeze everything save for the veggies or double bag it using the water displacement.  It should be good.

[Martin Fisher]

I'm looking to make bacon confit via the Joule.

I'll likely tightly roll up thick sliced bacon.

Suggested time and temperature?

Does 70°C for 12H sound good?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

8 hours ago, ElsieD said:

 

Including the carrot and red pepper?

 

I would just freeze the liquid in an ice cube tray, not the vegetables.  I use this method for bagging dashi in my chamber vacuum sealer.

 

[daveb]

For my Seniors where tender is as important as flavor.

 

Finished product - Bottom round, approx 16#, 2 days @ 141F.  Seared in 500F oven for 10 min.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

10 hours ago, daveb said:

For my Seniors where tender is as important as flavor.

 

Finished product - Bottom round, approx 16#, 2 days @ 141F.  Seared in 500F oven for 10 min.

 

Sous vide is a powerful technique but short of a meson cannon or a meat slicer I can't see making beef round tender.  (Spoken as a cranky old woman with poor dentation.)  And short of a miracle I can't see imparting any flavor.

 

[daveb]

Jo,  The full bottom round is cheap - probably for just those reasons.  Thus I have it on the menu in various forms 3 - 4 times a week.  (Keeps the Anova humming)

 

The roast is heavily seasoned (by SV standards) and bagged and tagged.  24 hrs is good, 48 is better.  I use 141F to comply with Federal, State, County, Corporate, requirements.  None of these entities know what SV is - I tell inspectors its an electric bain marie.    And that's ok.  The resultant product is then sliced thin for sandwiches, sliced as above for roast beef, cubed for beef stew, pot roast, or chunked for stir fry.   It's fall apart tender and kind of tastes good.  My gravy game has improved since I've been here. 

 

And by using the round I can put Tloin or PR on the menu once a month.    Cmon down to Fl and I'll buy you lunch.

[gfweb]

@daveb what sort of place are you cooking?