The Bread Topic (2016–)

[Ann_T]

1 hour ago, kayb said:

Dumb question du jour: What causes the shine?

@Kayb, I must confess to not having a scientific bone in my body, so I don't know the scientific explanation. 

In fact, even reading up on it , there seems to be a number of views,   including higher hydration. 

 

But I consistently get the shine with both higher and lower hydrations.   Recently all my breads have been at 63% instead of 70% or higher and I'm still getting a really good shine on the crumb.

I believe it has more to do with gluten development.  I also think that the flour I use is a big contributing factor.    And a longer fermentation contributes, which  will also play a part in the development of the gluten.  

[lindag]

1 minute ago, Ann_T said:

@Kayb, I must confess to not having a scientific bone in my body, so I don't know the scientific explanation. 

In fact, even reading up on it , there seems to be a number of views,   including higher hydration. 

 

But I consistently get the shine with both higher and lower hydrations.   Recently all my breads have been at 63% instead of 70% or higher and I'm still getting a really good shine on the crumb.

I believe it has more to do with gluten development.  I also think that the flour I use is a big contributing factor.    And a longer fermentation contributes, which  will also play a part in the development of the gluten.  

what flour(s) do you use?

[Ann_T]

1 minute ago, lindag said:

what flour(s) do you use?

Linda, I use Canadian flour.  My favourite and the one I have used now for years is one of Roger's flours.   The one I buy is Silver Star which is one of their commercial flours.  Protein is 13.4%.  

My local Costco carries it in 20K bags (44lbs).  I don't run out often, but if I did, I would buy their regular bread flour or all purpose flour at the grocery store.   Also makes wonderful bread. 

 

[lemniscate]

I par-baked  pizza shells today with a sourdough that included chopped olives added to the dough.  They are very small, like 6"-8" size.   I got 8 or so.   I plan on freezing them to be ready for quick meals.   I brushed them lightly with a sundried tomato oil before baking.  Not pretty now, but when dressed out with toppings should be pretty good eating.  No pics due to flour everywhere and multiple oven trips (I bake outside on the patio), it was a mess. 

 

I have another batch of dough doing the slow rise aging in the fridge.

Edited August 7, 2022 by lemniscate (log)

[PatrickT]

@lemniscate Recipe, perhaps? 😍🙏

[lemniscate]

1 hour ago, PatrickT said:

@lemniscate Recipe, perhaps? 😍🙏

 

Kinda sorta this KA recipe and then par-baking for about 10 min. @ 425F after shaping.  I have a cheapo Oster french door oven with a diy steel.

[PatrickT]

Lovely - thank you! 😃

[Captain]

22 hours ago, Ann_T said:

I'm glad that you like that recipe. It is very versatile.

How can I find this please Ann.

[DesertTinker]

1 hour ago, Captain said:

How can I find this please Ann.

Not Ann_T but here’s the link. Be sure to look around on the blog, she’s got tons of good things on it.

Edited August 8, 2022 by DesertTinker
Added comment (log)

[Ann_T]

12 hours ago, DesertTinker said:

Not Ann_T but here’s the link. Be sure to look around on the blog, she’s got tons of good things on it.

 

13 hours ago, Captain said:

How can I find this please Ann.

 Thanks @DesertTinker.

 

@Captain, here is another link with options.   The recipe is basically the same  - just flour, water, salt and yeast OR instead of yeast sourdough starter.  You can vary the hydration. Lately I've been using 

just 63% hydration with great results. Especially like the lower hydration for pizzas.   In the past I thought that I needed higher hydration for a pizza dough. Not the case.   

There is also a hydration chart at the end of this

blog post........ Artisan Breads

 

Another option is using the  Charles Van Over food processor method (The Best Bread Ever) when making smaller 500g batches.   

I'd forgotten about this method until @Dave R posted about it a couple of months ago.

 

I still do two to three stretch and folds with the autolyze rests between, even when I use the FP.  Food Processor Batches.  

 

 

[curls]

Some sourdough loaves I baked November 2021. Love how the one loaf opened up! I kept one loaf and delivered the second to a friend (gave her some sourdough starter too so she can start her own sourdough bread baking journey).

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, curls said:

Some sourdough loaves I baked November 2021. Love how the one loaf opened up! I kept one loaf and delivered the second to a friend (gave her some sourdough starter too so she can start her own sourdough bread baking journey).

 

 

 

I hope they are not stale.

 

[Ann_T]

 

Started 3 batches of dough Thursday night. All at 500g of flour, 1g of yeast, 14g of salt and 315g of water for 63% hydration.

Two batches went into the fridge and will get used for baguettes and pizza in the next day or two

and one batch I left out on the counter overnight and baked four baguettes yesterday morning. 

Started another batch Friday morning to replace the one I baked so I'll have three batches on the go.

Going to try and keep at least two batches in the fridge at all times so I can bake whenever I feel like it.

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

 

Rather than a boule, tonight I baked three baguettes.  I just began my mai tai, and so aways till dinner.

 

[Ann_T]

@JoNorvelleWalker, I always love the colour you get on your loaves.

Decided to bake cheddar cheese baguettes this morning.

Dough had been in the fridge for two days and taken out last night and left on the counter overnight.

Baked three cheddar and one regular.

Moe had to sample with a "little" butter. 

[lindag]

@Ann_T, Do you refrigerate your dough before the first rise?

 

[Ann_T]

48 minutes ago, lindag said:

@Ann_T, Do you refrigerate your dough before the first rise?

 

Linda, yes.  If a dough isn't going to be baked same day, then it goes right into the fridge immediately after the last stretch and fold.

It still rises in the fridge and will continue to rise once it is out of the fridge and after it warms up. Because I have started to use just 1g or yeast in 500g of flour, it takes 7 to 8 hours before 

it is ready to divide and shape into loaves or use for pizza.

[PatrickT]

I've been trying some bakes from Bernard Clayton's New Complete Book of Breads - and my latest was his California Sourdough Whole Wheat Bread.

 

Of this recipe, Clayton says: "When questioned about my very favorite bread from among the several thousand that I have baked, I hedge. It's like being asked which child you favor. However, if pressed to give two favorites, this bread is one of them. And for good reason. This loaf led me into writing about home baking. Many years ago while rafting down the Colorado River, through the Grand Canyon, I told the passengers in my boat about a wonderful bread I had developed. One of the passengers was an editor for Sunset , a magazine at home in the Bay Area, where devotees of sourdough French bread are legion (and vocal). The editor bought the recipe and I became a professional."

 

The recipe is indeed delicious (@Dave R - I think you'd like this one), with a dense, tight crumb and a wonderfully dark crust. The only leavening comes from a 3-day whole wheat sponge that's simply stirred down daily. It gives the bread a very unique tang and flavor that is quite different from my customary sourdough starter.

 

When it came to scoring to loaves, Clayton remarked: "With a sharp razor, slash each loaf down the center, then make several small diagonal cuts, as branches from a limb." I appear to have created something akin to a salamander and a roadside noxious weed. 🤣

 

If any of you have the book, this is a very tasty loaf you might enjoy. My recipe conversions from Clayton's original appear below, along with a few pics of my loaves.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by PatrickT (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

 

Last night I was devastated when the third of last weekend's batch of baguettes horridly molded.  So this time it's a kilogram boule again.

 

One difficulty with large loaves is the dough drapes over the sides of the little Exo peel I originally purchased for use with the CSO.  It's always a challenge not to land the dough on the kitchen floor.  A larger Exo peel is now on order.

 

That will make my fourth Exo.  I've been raving about Exo Super Peels long before they were pictured in Modernist Bread.

 

[Ann_T]

On 8/21/2022 at 7:33 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Last night I was devastated when the third of last weekend's batch of baguettes horridly molded.  So this time it's a kilogram boule again.

@JoNorvelleWalker, you don't freeze?   If I know that the baguettes won't be eaten same day or next, I wrap in a paper towel, and into a ziplock freezer bag

and freeze.   They defrost quickly.   And don't seem to suffer from being frozen.   My freezer is empty of baguettes at the moment so I started three more 500g batches

of dough last night and they are in the fridge and will get baked over the next two or three days.

 

Baked four baguettes this morning from a 500g batch of dough.

 

The dough was made Saturday morning and went directly in the fridge after the last stretch and fold.

Taken out of the fridge last night around 8:00PM and left on the counter until 4:00 AM this morning.

I started three more batches last night for the fridge. The 500g batches are great to have on hand.

Will make four baguettes, or one or two boules depending on size, or two pizzas.

My intentions are to keep three on hand. As I pull one out to use, another one will go into replace.

Using just 1g of yeast for 500g of flour and hydration is 63%. This seems to be the perfect ratio for both loaves as well as for pizza dough.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, Ann_T said:

@JoNorvelleWalker, you don't freeze?   If I know that the baguettes won't be eaten same day or next, I wrap in a paper towel, and into a ziplock freezer bag

and freeze.   They defrost quickly.   And don't seem to suffer from being frozen.   My freezer is empty of baguettes at the moment so I started three more 500g batches

of dough last night and they are in the fridge and will get baked over the next two or three days.

 

I've never tried freezing bread.  There is usually no room in my freezers anyway.  Modernist Bread suggests preventing mold by storing bread under CO2.  I never tried that because I don't have a suitable container.  But I just had a thought:  I keep my baguettes in plastic bags designed for bread storage.  It would be easy enough to flush the bags with CO2.

 

Plus if I were making a batch of Methode Rotuts to have with dinner, no CO2 would be wasted.

 

[PatrickT]

Since I happen to be reading the Bernard Clayton book I mentioned above - and since he was such a big advocate of freezing bread - I thought I'd share what he has to say on the subject of bread storage.

 

"Bread to be eaten within the next day or two should be kept in a paper bag, bread. box, or bread drawer. Don't wrap it in plastic unless you want an especially soft crust. If the bread is to be used for toast, it doesn't matter. The toaster will crisp the slice. Bread will not go stale as quickly at room temperature as it will in the refrigerator. Bread will freshen simply by heating it unwrapped in a 350 degree oven for 15 minutes.

 

"If you are concerned that a whole loaf will stale before it can be eaten, freeze part of it to serve fresh at a later date. Frozen bread keeps and freshens so well that I freeze all bread to be held, even though I may plan to use it within the next few days. To freeze, allow the loaf to cool before placing it in two medium or heavy plastic bags, one inside the other. Close securely and freeze. After taking the bread out of the freezer, allow it to thaw inside the unopened bags. Frost particles and ice crystals inside the bag represent moisture from the bread and should be allowed to absorb back. Keep the bread in the plastic bag until the crystals have disappeared, then remove the bread from the bag, place on a baking sheet, and put it in a 350 degree oven for 15 minutes."

 

[Ann_T]

1 hour ago, PatrickT said:

Frozen bread keeps and freshens so well that I freeze all bread to be held, even though I may plan to use it within the next few days

I've been freezing homemade bread for years. Nice to be able to pull a loaf/baguette out of the freezer. This was especially good the last couple of weeks when we were having 90 plus temperatures and didn't  want to turn on the oven.  I never have bread go moldy.

[PatrickT]

King Arthur's Simple Rustic Loaf. I used 50g of sourdough starter in place of the yeast and a bottle of bagel topping for the mixed seeds. Delicious!

 

 

[PatrickT]

On 7/23/2022 at 9:55 AM, Ann_T said:

... Used 50g of discard in a 500g batch of dough at 63%. Made two other 500g batches same hydration, but each with 1g of yeast. All three batches went into the fridge Tuesday night ... I took one of the remaining batches out of the fridge last night [e.g., Friday] at 9:00 and left it on the counter. At 4:00 AM I preshaped four baguettes and final shaped and left to proof at 4:30.

 

@Ann_T Just want to verify: After your last set of stretch and folds, you refrigerated your dough for basically 72 hrs, allowed it to rest on the counter for an additional 8 before preshaping, shaping, final proofing and baking. Do I have that right? Would love to try this next time I make your recipe and see what happens. Your results are obviously undeniable! 😃