The Bread Topic (2015-2016)

[cakewalk]

Sourdough loaf, which looks nice in the first photo, but then when I turn it over, you can see that it split on one side. I think it's underproofed. Flavor is good, but I was a bit too rushed to get it into the oven. I find that most of my mess-ups with sourdough are due to impatience at one stage or another. Because it takes so ***** long! (But I'll eat it with no complaints.)

Edited February 27, 2016 by cakewalk
reduce size of photos & edit for clarity (log)

[EsaK]

On 25 February 2016 at 11:02 AM, keychris said:

 

I personally don't go higher than 100% hydration for my starters (ie. 100g flour / 100g water), but more commonly I work at 66.7% (150g flour / 100g water). I find anything higher than 100% is just too runny and I don't get a great flavour, but YMMV.

You can definitely add the discard to any recipe in place of water and flour - I save my discard for a few days and make pancakes

If you want to change your starter to a different flour, you do exactly what you describe - just be aware that different flours will absorb different amounts of water, ie whole wheat will be a different consistency to rye to white to spelt etc etc

The reason you want to bring your starter back to room temperature is the same as why you use regular yeast warm - the bacteria and yeast in the starter are more active at room temperature. When you cool the dough back down, you encourage the activity of the bacteria that create the acids (they're more active at cooler temperatures) and so give it more tang, but if you start cold, your starter won't be active enough to raise your dough.

HTH

 

 

Many thanks keychris! I messed up the ratios at first when it said somewhere that you could use f.e. cup flour, cup water. Changed it to be equal flour and water in grams, looks nice. 

 

Another question that came to mind was whether there was any real meaning behind the "discard half, add original amount of flour and water"? Say, I start with 100g flour + 100g water. Discard 100g of starter, then I should add 100g flour and 100g water again, making my starter 50% bigger. Am I missing/compromising on something if I don't want to make my starter any bigger? Intuitively I'd say it shouldn't matter, but then again I don't really know. Thanks!

 

 

[liuzhou]

I've never been a baker. I did try to make a loaf about twenty years ago, and very successfully made a house brick. I realise now that I used the wrong kind of flour - low gluten, which was all that was available here at that time - and probably the wrong recipe.

 

About a week ago, I got really annoyed with the local bread shop. They are so inconsistent. Half the time you go they have nothing. Then, on random days, bread arrives but it's stale. They have a few branches around town but a central bakery. It seems the bakery does the stuff, but then the bread sits there while the delivery driver takes a three day rest.

 

Around the same time, a small bakery supplies shop opened yards from my front door and I found these.

 

 

and

 

 

On a whim, I bought them.

 

Later the same day, I had a fall at home and badly bruised my right shoulder. It is still very painful. I thought I would have to postpone any bread making experiments, but then I remembered hearing about the "no knead" method, so went a-googling.

 

I was highly sceptical that this was going to work, but...loaf #1. As you can see, I just rounded the dough into a "rustic" shape.

 

 

While it didn't come out perfect, I was very happy with the taste. The bottom was ever so slightly undercooked.

 

 

Undeterred, yesterday, I cooked loaf 2. This time in a loaf tin and for a little bit longer.

 

 

I am much happier with this one. The crumb is more evenly cooked (and cooked all the way the through)

 

It doesn't match some of the examples I've seen on this topic and its previous incarnations, but I don't think I have totally shamed myself.

Just got back from down town where I bought a kilo of high gluten flour from a different shop. Experiments shall continue.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2016 by liuzhou
typos (log)

[keychris]

54 minutes ago, EsaK said:

Another question that came to mind was whether there was any real meaning behind the "discard half, add original amount of flour and water"? Say, I start with 100g flour + 100g water. Discard 100g of starter, then I should add 100g flour and 100g water again, making my starter 50% bigger. Am I missing/compromising on something if I don't want to make my starter any bigger? Intuitively I'd say it shouldn't matter, but then again I don't really know. Thanks!

 

Doesn't matter IMHO. I usually now do around 20g starter, 50g water, 75g flour. Next day, repeat, discard the excess (or keep for pancakes). I only increase the size when I'm going to bake with it and need more The amount of starter you use is determined by how active it is - if I do equal weights eg. 100/100/100, after 24hrs my starter is a very thin, runny liquid, usually means there's been lots of enzyme action chopping up all the starches into tiny pieces. So I use less starter, so after 24hrs it's doubled but hasn't changed consistency much from the day before.

[Shelby]

8 hours ago, liuzhou said:

I've never been a baker. I did try to make a loaf about twenty years ago, and very successfully made a house brick. I realise now that I used the wrong kind of flour - low gluten, which was all that was available here at that time - and probably the wrong recipe.

 

About a week ago, I got really annoyed with the local bread shop. They are so inconsistent. Half the time you go they have nothing. Then, on random days, bread arrives but it's stale. They have a few branches around town but a central bakery. It seems the bakery does the stuff, but then the bread sits there while the delivery driver takes a three day rest.

 

Around the same time, a small bakery supplies shop opened yards from my front door and I found these.

 

 

and

 

 

On a whim, I bought them.

 

Later the same day, I had a fall at home and badly bruised my right shoulder. It is still very painful. I thought I would have to postpone any bread making experiments, but then I remembered hearing about the "no knead" method, so went a-googling.

 

I was highly sceptical that this was going to work, but...loaf #1. As you can see, I just rounded the dough into a "rustic" shape.

 

 

While it didn't come out perfect, I was very happy with the taste. The bottom was ever so slightly undercooked.

 

 

Undeterred, yesterday, I cooked loaf 2. This time in a loaf tin and for a little bit longer.

 

 

I am much happier with this one. The crumb is more evenly cooked (and cooked all the way the through)

 

It doesn't match some of the examples I've seen on this topic and its previous incarnations, but I don't think I have totally shamed myself.

Just got back from down town where I bought a kilo of high gluten flour from a different shop. Experiments shall continue.

 

 

Looks really good!   You've made me want to try the no knead method again.  It's been a long time.

 

 I'm sorry for your fall --glad it's just a bruise.  NO MORE FALLING YOUNG MAN!  

[Franci]

On 1/6/2016 at 8:17 PM, Patrick S said:

 

That looks amazing! The large voids in that pannetone are exactly what I'm after. The translator on my browser seems to have done a reasonably good job translating from Italian, so this is going onto the to-try list! Molte grazie, Franci!

 

 

Thank you so much, Lindag!

 

Hey Patrick, I stumble upon this blog and wanted to share. A lot of interesting recipes, also for Colomba, easter dove.

[Anna N]

 

It has been a while since I made a loaf of no knead bread. 

[EsaK]

6 hours ago, Anna N said:

 

It has been a while since I made a loaf of no knead bread. 

 

Any chance you might lay out the steps you took to get this result, and the ratios you used?

 

[lesliec]

@Anna N, that's a beautiful loaf.

 

@liuzhou, welcome to the happy world of no-kneaders.  I'm still using the method some five or six years on (I find to my slight horror).  Try this method of shaping I posted - I've refined it by patting the ends of the shaped loaf in a little to make it even tidier, but the general idea is the same.

[Anna N]

@EsaK

 

This is  pretty what you're asking.  I have his book but was able to find this online for you.  I make only one loaf at a time so I divide the recipe.  He uses all-purpose flour and instant yeast. 

[ElainaA]

@EsaK  The recipe in the CI cookbook is good also. There is a picture of a loaf I made somewhere way up this thread. It does require about 30 sec- 1 minute of kneading (it is actually called "Almost No Knead Bread") and overnight proofing. The total active time in making it is under half an hour.

[lindag]

CI's no-knead is a favorite of mine, I like the flavor that the little bit of beer adds.

I make this bread regularly and of all the breads that I make, and there are lots, this one has the best all around flavor and it toasts up beautifully.  Just lovely with soups and stews and salads.

[Ann_T]

Liuzhou  While I have no desire to try the No Knead method again, I do love the fact that you baked one of the loaves in a bread pan.  

 

Thank you for the idea. I'm going to try that with some bread dough that I've had bulk rising since yesterday. 

 

 

 

[liuzhou]

I'm delighted how forgiving this no-knead lark is. Subtitle: Why I kneaded my no-knead bread.

 

Last night I realised that I was almost out of bread and although I was tired, I decided to knock out a loaf's worth of dough, let it have its initial rise, then stick it in the fridge.

 

However, in my tiredness, I managed to get almost everything wrong. The recipe I am using asks me to add instant yeast and salt to warm water, then gradually mix in the flour. I prepared the hot water, put it in my mixing bowl then dumped all the flour in in one go (500g) and mixed away. I was just finished when I noticed the carefully measured yeast and salt still sitting on my kitchen scales. "Drat, double drat!" is an approximation of what I said to myself.

 

I them tried to mix the yeast and salt into the dough as best I could, then left it to rest and rise. After about two hours (double the usual time) it had risen a bit and smelled yeast, but looked somewhat odd. I threw it in the fridge anyway and went to bed.

 

This morning, I dug it out and decided the only thing to do was to lightly knead the no-knead bread to try to distribute the yeast/salt more evenly. I kneaded for only about a minute. My bruised shoulder is on the mend, but not up to strenuous kneadery yet.

 

Put it aside for a second rise. After 1½ hours it looked perfect. Into the oven and half an hour later I had this.

 

 

What I though was going to be a write-off turned out the tastiest loaf I have managed yet (although I've only done four).

 

 

I might make a habit of doing it wrong!

Edited March 5, 2016 by liuzhou
typo (log)

[Anna N]

@liuzhou

 

Your bread worked because you basically followed the same method advocated by Ken Forkish. Mixing the flour and water together initially allows for a period of what is called autolyse (do not worry about getting all technical!) In the Forkish method I use the yeast and salt are then sprinkled on top of the flour- water mixture  and incorporated by squishing everything together for a few minutes ( again ignore the technical term). The overnight rest in the refrigerator could do nothing but improve the final flavour of the product. Carry-on.

[Ann_T]

Liuzhou, I love that rustic look you get on the top of your loaf. How are you achieving that?

 

Baked Waterford Blaa rolls.  These are an Irish bread. 

 

 

And some small boules. 

 

I like smaller loaves

 

 

[liuzhou]

4 hours ago, Anna N said:

@liuzhou

 

Your bread worked because you basically followed the same method advocated by Ken Forkish. Mixing the flour and water together initially allows for a period of what is called autolyse (do not worry about getting all technical!) In the Forkish method I use the yeast and salt are then sprinkled on top of the flour- water mixture  and incorporated by squishing everything together for a few minutes ( again ignore the technical term). The overnight rest in the refrigerator could do nothing but improve the final flavour of the product. Carry-on.

 

Interesting. Thank you. ."Squishing" was the very word I was looking for!

 

2 hours ago, Ann_T said:

Liuzhou, I love that rustic look you get on the top of your loaf. How are you achieving that?

 

What you graciously refer to as "rustic", I refer to as 'almost burnt". Like almost everyone in China, I don't have a proper oven, so I'm doing the bread in a toaster oven which is actually a bit too small. The top of the bread is too near the top heating element, but I can't get it any lower, so it gets rusticated! . There is just room for a tray of water underneath the loaf.

[Anna N]

 

 Soft sided rolls inspired by Ann_T. 

[Franci]

I made cornetti again. Cornetti are the Italian croissants. They are slightly different than the French cousins in the fact the dough is sweeter,  more like brioche...

Compared to my last time, I only changed the butter. I was so happy the way the dough lamination was going. No leakage of butter, no broken dough. Easy to roll.

I made the dough yesterday night, left in the fridge overnight. Laminated with butter in the morning. 2 double turns with rest in between. Only thing different is the butter. 

I thought I got decent feuillettage (English?) but in the oven they released so much butter, swimming in butter!

Last time I used Kerrygold which I thought had a lower melting point. This time, I'm not sure if I used Costco kirkland or Trader's Joe...disaster. Can anybody suggest a good butter for croissant in the US? I will also try to give more rest in between turns if that helps.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2016 by Franci (log)

[liuzhou]

@Franci They look lovely! I have fond memories of eating cornetti when I lived in Rome thirty-five years ago. Your pictures brought back a lot of memories.

Edited March 7, 2016 by liuzhou (log)

[lesliec]

Franci, they look wonderful.  How did they taste?  If the answer is 'great', you probably don't have a problem!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

@Franci if those are the disaster, you can ship them here.

 

And I am a lot closer than New Zealand.

[liuzhou]

5 hours ago, Franci said:

feuillettage (English?)

 

Flakiness

[Franci]

Thank you, Liuzhou, flakiness! Sometimes I have to fish the word that comes first in my mind.

And now that I think about it, cornetti have also something different to croissants, they are often filled: jam, pastry cream, chocolate cream.

 

Jo, they are more than edible but I know it didn't really go straight. I know that leakage of butter during cooking could be: not enough rest in between turns, I'll try to give it even more time on the next round, quality of butter and quantity in the recipe or flour. But next time, I'll change recipe as well. 

[Ann_T]

.Franci, they look great too me.  Would love one with my coffee.

 

\

Decided to try and recreate a Sourdough Chocolate cherry bun that I use to buy from a bakery when we lived in Vancouver.