Hard-Anodized Stock Pots - How Non-stick Are They?

[Porthos]

First off, if there is an existing thread on this I will gladly read through it.

 

I have 2 volunteers in my southern ren faire who make soups to be eaten after faire closes for the day, I have decent 12 quart S/S stock pots. However, when they choose to make broccoli cheese soup or the like I spent an hour or more cleaning the pot. Partway through this season I finally said no more cheese soups this season, which has ended.

 

I am looking at options for future seasons. One option is to restrict them to using the 8 quart non-stick Dutch ovens I supply. It still takes a little bit extra effort to clean but nothing like the S/S pots. I am also looking at perhaps getting a hard-anodized 12 quart stock pot in hopes that it will be non-stick enough to clean up more like my other non-stick items.

 

Since these volunteers are family and friends to whom I am grateful for the help I am not going to change “the system” and ask them to wash the pots themselves. One of them would be offended beyond definition if I tried to show this person a better way to prepare the soup the vastly lessens the issue. I am just saying that the solution does not lie in asking them to change how they cook.

 

All that being said can anyone speak to the relative differences in  non-stick performance between separately-applied non-stick coatings versus the non-stick properties of hard-anodized aluminum? Will I gain something in easier cleanup if I buy a hard-anodized stock pot or am I likely to end up with just another stock pot to store? Thoughts?

[Deryn]

So, I understand that you don't want to change how they cook the soup, but, how do they cook the soup that the dregs get so 'baked' on that they cannot be removed easily? Or is it that though they don't do much to make that happen, the soup just sitting for hours in a hot pan is 'baking' on a layer at the bottom of the pan?

 

The reason I ask is that I don't use non-stick pots at all and don't recall even broccoli cheese soup sticking that badly on my stainless pots.

 

I suspect that a hard-anodized pot might make cleanup easier for you but unless you really wanted to get new pots, that sounds like an expensive solution to what may be a simpler issue than you think. That solution might be as simple as the order in which things are thrown into the pot, or removing the soup immediately from the pot and storing it in another container once it is made if it is not to be consumed immediately.

[AlaMoi]

"or am I likely to end up with just another stock pot to store?"

 

bingo.  it's not the pot.  it's the method/procedure/technique.

 

a flame tamer may - and that is a maybe in all caps - help.  but given the times/etc described, not likely.

[Porthos]

The one who makes for the biggest clean-up mess doesn't understand sequence and manner in which I make those soups. I have a bit more clean-up than from other soups but nothing like that mess.

 

Me: Soup pot gets a standard mire poix cooked in butter and olive oil, then in goes some stock and the broccoli. In a separate pot I make a simple white-sauce-based cheese sauce but about a gallon's worth. That gets incorporated into the basic soup and served.

 

The person to whom I am referring, who makes the most serious mess, starts the same way I do, then makes roux in a separate pan, adds the roux to the soup and then tries to incorporate the cheese into the very thinned-out roux. That doesn't work so well so often this person cranks up the heat trying to force the cheese to incorporate. Unfortunately a lot of cheese ends up just melting and then adhering to the bottom of the pot.

 

So I am back to the question of how non-stick is hard-anodized aluminum? Will it lessen the clean-up effort compared to stainless steel?

[AlaMoi]

"how non-stick is hard-anodized aluminum? Will it lessen the clean-up effort compared to stainless steel?"

 

and back to my first expression, anodized vs stainless in the circumstances you describe is a zero difference.

 

"it's not the pot.  it's the method/procedure/technique."

 

feel free to prove the point.  I've been there done that.  nothing more to add to that.

Edited June 3, 2015 by AlaMoi (log)

[Porthos]

Anyone out there that can answer the question I am asking? The one about how non-stick is hard-anodized aluminum? Will it lessen the clean-up effort compared to stainless steel?

[Shel_B]

Anyone out there that can answer the question I am asking? The one about how non-stick is hard-anodized aluminum? Will it lessen the clean-up effort compared to stainless steel?

 

Hi ... for many years I used good quality hard anodized aluminum pots, including a 12-quart stockpot.

 

My recollection is that the pot cleaned up easily, and while it's not non-stick, it was certainly less sticky than my stainless.

 

That said, at the time I was not very competent using stainless, and I was not using a stock pot but, rather, a 4-quart saucepan.  My incompetence with SS at that time seems similar to the situation you describe.

 

Under the circumstances you describe, I'd say a good anodized pot will work in your favor.  However, I don't know what to recommend (although you didn't ask for a recommendation), i.e., I cannot speak to the quality of the current crop of anodized pots.

[weinoo]

I'd say stick with the 8-quart non-stick Dutch ovens. Why add more stuff when it sounds like the problem isn't the pans, but the cook (s)?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I use anodized aluminum only for a bain marie.  I don't find anodized aluminum to be a food surface that I want to cook with.  And I never found it to be particularly non-stick.

[Deryn]

Cheese sauce can be frozen. Make huge quantities of it at your leisure and freeze it in appropriate size containers. You can let it thaw in the fridge on site or on the road to the site. Give to problem cook with instructions to dump it in the (old, familiar) pot with the stock and broccoli. Stir, rinse, repeat.

 

This is a new season coming up. New season can mean new procedures, no? I know this is for Ren Faire but not everything has to be done in a medieval way.  This is a very slight change that should not impact the cook's opinion of his/her ability to 'cook'. The extra work is yours, I admit (making the cheese sauce in advance) but isn't that better than dealing with this issue on site and then having to spend so much time washing up?

 

Or you can go spend money on a new pot you will have to still wash and store.

[Porthos]

New season can mean new procedures, no?

No.

 

Apparently there are comprehension issues in our community. I didn't ask for how to run my kitchen. I asked about whether hard-anodized aluminum would work as a good non-stick surface under the conditions I described.

[weinoo]

I asked about whether hard-anodized aluminum would work as a good non-stick surface under the conditions I described.

And, as a few people have already mentioned, evidently not.

 

Is there a comprehension problem?

[Edward J]

Ah, aluminumumumn....how I hate thee.......

The anodizing is not because of non-stick issues, it's because aluminum oxidizes very quickly, reacts to acidic ingredients, and is very soft and scratches/gouges easily. The hard anodizing compensates for all of this, as well as driving up the cost to well past what a decent s/s sandwich bottom pot would cost.

But even hard anodizing won't stop the pot from warping, on a gas stove it'll warp faster han the USS Enterprise.....

[Deryn]

I apologize for even suggesting there might be other ways to deal with the problem. I completely understood what you were asking for. What will you do if hard-anodized pots won't solve your issue though?

[boilsover]

Yes, IMO hard-anodized aluminum is less prone to stick than is SS.

 

There are two reasons.  One is the surface in contact with the food.  The other is the vastly superior conductivity of aluminum; this generally makes HAA less prone to scorching viscous liquids.

 

Now then, great clad or thick disk-bottomed SS will probably perform equally to aluminum for the soups you describe. 

[Toliver]

You should try PM'ing eGullet member Sam Kinsey. He's quite knowledgeable about cookware (I think he wrote the eGCI class on cookware).

A few years ago when Calphalon was dumping their 2-ply non-stick cookware (which resulted in amazing low prices for the stuff on Amazon), anodized aluminum cookware was fast becoming the rage. I never bought in on it because even when it was first launching, the caveat on these boards at the time was that it wasn't even close to being as non-stick as the Calphalon cookware was.

 

A silly question, but have you tried spraying something like PAM inside the pots before cooking the soups? 

I share your pain as a past college cafeteria dishwasher having to deal with daily burnt-on crap in pots from kitchen cooks who didn't give a rat's ass because they weren't the ones who had to scrub the pots. 

[gfweb]

I have a couple anodized aluminum pots and I'd say that they are a little less non-stick than a properly oiled and heated SS pan. And because of the surface can't be scrubbed as violently as an SS could be.

[Shel_B]

I have a couple anodized aluminum pots and I'd say that they are a little less non-stick than a properly oiled and heated SS pan. And because of the surface can't be scrubbed as violently as an SS could be.

 

It's interesting that you should talk about the need for SS being scrubbed "violently."  I have numerous good quality SS pots and pans, and have not had any need for violent, or otherwise, scrubbing (in the sense of having to rub hard) a pan.  Everything has been easy to remove with some soaking and cleaning with a sponge and soapy water, and sometimes with the addition of a pinch or two of Bar Keeper's Friend.

 

Also, Calphalon recommends using Bar Keeper's Friend to remove stubborn stains on their contemporary anodized aluminum.  I tried their technique to remove baked on grease from the outside of a hard anodized non-stick skillet.  Worked like a charm, although I'd not want to underwrite the cost of doing that constantly.

[Edward J]

Part of the whole non-stick schtick is the actual polish of the material.  Both s/s and aluminum are capable of a very high, mirror like polish.  The higher the polish, the smoother or slicker the surface is, and the odds of something sticking are greatly reduced.

 

Thing is, a mirror polish requires a bit of energy, in other words it'll cost.  This is one of the reasons that medical/operating room equipment and instruments are so expensive, they have a mirror polish so they are easier to sanitize and keep clean.

 

Then again cheese is a high preotein product and it will stick like a (deleted)  I make a 2 kg batch of caramel about 3 times a week, and I do it in a S/S sandwich bottom bottom pot I bought from (gasp!) Ikea.  Meh, after  15 min soak I attack it with a s/s scrubbie and it's as good as new again.i

[Porthos]

Thanks to the feedback given I have decided against acquiring a HAA pot.

[Alex]

No.

 

Apparently there are comprehension issues in our community. I didn't ask for how to run my kitchen. I asked about whether hard-anodized aluminum would work as a good non-stick surface under the conditions I described.

 

Ha! You should teach for a living. I can't tell you how many college students don't read instructions carefully enough to follow them as they should -- if they bother reading them at all. That said, eGers have always had a habit of posting anything that might somehow be peripherally related to a forum's topic; you'd need to sift through them to get to what you were actually looking for. That used to drive me bonkers, but now that I'm more or less permanently bonkers, I don't care anymore. In fact, sometimes there's useful information contained within.

 

To answer your question, I agree with the other on-topic posters: For ease of clean-up in your situation, I'd go with non-stick. Between hard-anodized and stainless steel, the h-a has better release properties, but it's nowhere near actual non-stick.

[dcarch]

All non-stick cookware can easily be irreparably damaged or destroyed. 

 

That's why I have a cheap SS pot for long cooks. 

 

When the pot gets messy or has tough burned on carbonized food, I just brush on "liquid Plumber" and let it sit a few hours and wash it off.

 

 

dcarch

[gfweb]

It's interesting that you should talk about the need for SS being scrubbed "violently." I have numerous good quality SS pots and pans, and have not had any need for violent, or otherwise, scrubbing (in the sense of having to rub hard) a pan. Everything has been easy to remove with some soaking and cleaning with a sponge and soapy water, and sometimes with the addition of a pinch or two of Bar Keeper's Friend.

Also, Calphalon recommends using Bar Keeper's Friend to remove stubborn stains on their contemporary anodized aluminum. I tried their technique to remove baked on grease from the outside of a hard anodized non-stick skillet. Worked like a charm, although I'd not want to underwrite the cost of doing that constantly.

I didn't say SS needs to be scrubbed violently. I said they could be.

[Porthos]

Alex, I have a friend who is a forensic anthropologist who teaches college. Her FB posts make me chuckle and groan at the same time.

[paulraphael]

It's not at all non-stick. I've had calphalon stuff since before it was calphalon. It sticks about the same as stainless steel, which is to say, you're dependent on cooking technique to keep it from sticking.

 

It's not as good a cooking surface as stainless. But the thick aluminum cooks well for lots of things; it's conductive and pretty quick. I really like my 20+ year old 5qt anodized rondeau. It's beat to hell but does a lot of things well, and the surface is unimportant.

 

I wouldn't get a nonstick soup pot under any circumstances.