The Food Lab: Better Home Cooking Through Science by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt

[cakewalk]

Interesting. I read his articles on Serious Eats sometimes, and I usually find them to be pedantic without being particularly enlightening. So I figure I'd probably feel the same way about the book. But clearly people like different things, it's what makes the world go round.

[Chris Hennes]

Is your argument that no one should ever bother giving cooking advice again, because it's been done?

[fvandrog]

I bought the electronic version a while ago, since the title and the approach appealed to me. Whereas the overall theme and subjects tackled is indeed interesting and nice, and the photography very high quality I am overall very disappointed. To me, the title implies a scientific approach. Using Fahrenheit, ounces and quarts is decisively unscientific to me -- but I can imagine the commercial interest in gearing for the US market and can understand that. However, cups of lightly packed brown sugar, teaspoons of salt and any other volumetric measurement for dry ingredients is as far ways from a real Food lab as you can get.

For me, it is a missed chance and I wouldn't recommend this book in general and certainly not to the crowd here.

F.

[gfweb]

Not using metric is "unscientific"?

Everyone knows food tastes better when cooked to Fahrenheit temps.

[weinoo]

My argument is that not everything is better because Kenji says it is.

 

Hasn't Cook's Illustrated also said that everything is the best if done their way?

 

I used to recommend Julia's The Way to Cook to people who wanted an excellent primer about, well, cooking.  I realize you haven't gotten too far with the recipes in this one, but do you think it should supplant Julia?

[dcarch]

First, I like "The Food Lab". A lot of good information there and I have learned a great deal from reading the many articles there.

 

At some point, I realized that there were many unscientific information there. I thought that was unacceptable for a MIT graduate who prides himself as a food scientist. Then I found out he was just an MIT architectural student.

 

Recently, Having read his China travel blog, I have questions about his "scientific observations". He wrote at length about in general the Chinese people have a habit of urinating in public, loud, pushy, impolite. He wrote that the major discovery of "Terracotta Army or the Terracotta Warriors and Horses" was totally boring and uninteresting.

 

Cooking steaks, he wrote:

 

"Fattier steaks also have natural insulation which means they'll take slightly longer to reach the correct internal temperature------------- but the insulating bone helps it stay plenty moist and juicy."

 

It seems to me, based on the shape of steak structure and the way they are cut, neither the bone nor the fat provide any insulation.

 

Do buy the book. I am sure you will find it to be useful.

 

dcarch

[rotuts]

""   I used to recommend Julia's The Way to Cook to people who wanted an excellent primer about, well, cooking.  I realize you haven't gotten too far with the recipes in this one, but do you think it should supplant Julia? ""

 

 

I also recommend TWTC as an initial cookbook for those starting out.  it still is.

 

this book adds discussions that are interesting analyses of How Cooking Works.

 

Id say this supplements TWTC in that regard.

 

Nothing, however, can truly supplant Julia's work.

 

this would be a supplement

 

BTW   TWTC has DVD's   rare in those days :

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Way-To-Cook-DVD/dp/0307593908

 

seeing cooking done dramatically improves almost all outcomes.

Edited October 25, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[fvandrog]

Not using metric is "unscientific"?

Please note I added "to me" to that statement. I have worked in labs on the East coast as well as on the West coast and without an exception all protocols and SOPs are in metric; all publications in peer reviewed journals are in metric and I am pretty sure scientists would be extremely surprised if data at a scientific meeting are presented with imperial units.

Everyone knows food tastes better when cooked to Fahrenheit temps.

I still shudder when I think back to the electric oven we had on one apartment we lived in when in San Diego -- I don't remember whether it was off by 35 degrees F or C, but using it to bake presented a very steep learning curve.

F.

Edited October 25, 2015 by fvandrog (log)

[Martin Fisher]

At some point, I realized that there were many unscientific information there. 

 

Many folks (including myself) have come to that realization!

 

https://www.chefsteps.com/forum/posts/your-thoughts-on-brining-9

[rotuts]

very nice ref :

 

''  Chris YoungWorks at ChefSteps ""  about the third down in the above article 

 

 his response is illuminating.

[weinoo]

I also recommend TWTC as an initial cookbook for those starting out.  it still is.

 

this book adds discussions that are interesting analyses of How Cooking Works.

Right.

 

After McGee, Corriher, Ruhlman, Cook's Illustrated, et. al.

[rotuts]

the book is also nicely formatted and attractively produced.

 

this helps hold the beginners attention.

 

I doubt that there is 'new' science here, but as a single 27 $$ tome, it adds enough science to the mix

 

its not perfect, only JC is perfect.

[cakewalk]

Is your argument that no one should ever bother giving cooking advice again, because it's been done?

I don't think anyone is making that argument. There are differences of opinion about whether or not one would buy the book and why, not whether or not he should have written it.

[Chris Hennes]

I used to recommend Julia's The Way to Cook to people who wanted an excellent primer about, well, cooking.  I realize you haven't gotten too far with the recipes in this one, but do you think it should supplant Julia?

 

The Way to Cook is a far superior book in most ways. The only strike against it is that it doesn't take into account advances in our understanding of the science of cooking, which is what Lopez-Alt says he is attempting to do with this volume. Well, in my opinion the proof of the pudding is in the eating. So to that end I've made a few recipes from the book and so far they have been successful. Are they in any sense "better" than what you might get from The Way to Cook (or even Joy of Cooking)? Not so far, but I haven't really stretched it yet, either.

[Hassouni]

I think it depends on the dish. If, say, you make a half decent pizza, and you want to up your game or if you're looking for authenticity, Kenji is the absolute worse person to turn to. Even if you're a complete novice when it comes to pizza, I still think the potential to pick up bad habits is enough reason to turn elsewhere. On the other hand, I've been researching and tinkering with wings for a few decades, and although I didn't incorporate all his ideas, he did help me up my game.

 

So, for pizza, Kenji's help is worse than worthless- damaging, in fact.  But for wings, he's a solid contributor- and this is coming from a guy who despises him with a passion, so when I give him credit for something, he's earned it.

 

One thing to bear in mind, though. As Kenji has performed these experiments over the years, he hasn't been publishing part of the results on Serious Eats and saving some for the book. Anything he's done has ended up on the site, so, unless having a hard copy makes you happy, the web site offers pretty much the exact same information for free and is, imo, more quickly searchable.

 

Why do you say that about the pizza? I'm not trying to be contrarian, just curious. I've made his cast iron pan pizza, and used his pre-Baking Steel cast iron + broiler technique, and both were great. I haven't used a Baking Steel, but he certainly did a fair share to popularize it and people seem to love it. 

[Hassouni]

Apologies if this has been answered.

 

I'm a regular reader of Kenji's SE stuff, and I've learned a ton from them in terms of technique, methods, etc. I'm not so much a recipe follower as an approach follower, and that's where I've benefitted the most from his work.

 

Are there significant techniques, ideas, methodologies in the book not on SE? The recipes are frankly of secondary interest.

[weinoo]

The Way to Cook is a far superior book in most ways. The only strike against it is that it doesn't take into account advances in our understanding of the science of cooking, which is what Lopez-Alt says he is attempting to do with this volume. Well, in my opinion the proof of the pudding is in the eating. So to that end I've made a few recipes from the book and so far they have been successful. Are they in any sense "better" than what you might get from The Way to Cook (or even Joy of Cooking)? Not so far, but I haven't really stretched it yet, either.

 

Stretch, baby, stretch! If Kenji can't write a recipe for glazed carrots, we're all doomed.

[rotuts]

interesting question, H.

 

I too am not much of a follower of Rx's   except perhaps for baking.  not because I pretty much know everything, which I of course do

 

it more a bit of sloth etc   I do like to have ideas roll around in what's left of my brain   some stick, some do not.

 

if I were you Id take a look at this book in a bookstore if you can

 

or borrow one from tube Library of your choice.

 

its not perfect.   I don't find his attempts at humor very interesting, but its his book not mine. he gets to choose not me.

[weinoo]

I guess part of my issue with this book is a philosophical one.  People who have come to food and cooking in the age of the internet often think that food writers who have come of age in the internet/blogging era are the be all, and end all, of, well, all.

 

They've never picked up Julia, Joy, or Jacques. Or, for that matter, Madeline or Marcella, to say nothing of Escoffier and LaRousse.

 

I find that sad.

[gfweb]

I don't think that it either Julia or Kenji. Both offer a lot and they cover different ground. Complementary I'd say.

[Anna N]

I love reading Kenji and was so happy when his his book finally became reality. I have barely dipped into it yet but I'm looking forward to becoming fully engaged shortly.

[huiray]

I don't think that it either Julia or Kenji. Both offer a lot and they cover different ground. Complementary I'd say.

 

Yes.  Quite so.

 

I got my copy today and from a scan through the index and a riffling through the book it is clear that the book is almost wholly about Western/European cooking. I spotted only one "Thai-style" recipe as an "Asian" bit but I may have missed others. In this context the discussion here about the Julia Child/Jacques Pepin treatises being THE reference books etc is sensible ONLY in the context of Western European cooking, really (and distinguished from Western/European cooking), and the comparison with Kenji's book is sensible only in that context.** His approach is also not fixated on French techniques as the "starting point" however "scientific" or not his discussion is and I think that is useful even within Western/New World cooking. 

 

p.s. I ordered it on Sunday from Amazon, I got it today (Tuesday) - and that was with "free shipping".  I threw in some salted capers to bring the total over US$35 - which is the cutoff for free shipping - and I still got it in two days - delivered by a special courier in her hatchback (must be the new Amazon push for speeding up deliveries to everyone) and I am NOT an Amazon Prime customer. 

 

** I also looked at his section on making stock, and he does talk almost wholly about chicken stock, which is indeed limiting. He also talks about getting clear stocks while saying that cloudy chicken stocks are just fine for home use. However, there is no mention of any of the purposely milky stocks (pork, beef) found in East & SE Asian cuisines, which he HAS talked about at great length on the website -- another reflection of the almost exclusive focus of the book on Western/European cooking. Notwithstanding all this, I think I still look forwards to browsing through it.

Edited October 27, 2015 by huiray (log)

[Shalmanese]

I bought the electronic version a while ago, since the title and the approach appealed to me. Whereas the overall theme and subjects tackled is indeed interesting and nice, and the photography very high quality I am overall very disappointed. To me, the title implies a scientific approach. Using Fahrenheit, ounces and quarts is decisively unscientific to me -- but I can imagine the commercial interest in gearing for the US market and can understand that. However, cups of lightly packed brown sugar, teaspoons of salt and any other volumetric measurement for dry ingredients is as far ways from a real Food lab as you can get.

For me, it is a missed chance and I wouldn't recommend this book in general and certainly not to the crowd here.

F.

 

Kenji responds to criticisms of his decision to use volume measurements in The Food Lab.

[rotuts]

thank you

 

decent discussion

 

however, he would have used the term weight, not mass.

 

just saying

 

talk about being picky

 

 

Edited November 19, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

 

Kenji responds to criticisms of his decision to use volume measurements in The Food Lab.

 

An unsatisfying apology.

 

How about writing a recipe, say, with two cups of diced onions and then listing the weight of those diced onions for anyone who cared?  If I'm making a recipe I know I often neither weigh nor measure stuff.  But for an unfamiliar recipe ingredient weight would help a lot.

 

Note he does not even state the caliper of his onion slices that are "paper thin".