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Pronunciation - Why do it wrong?


Kim Shook
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I was really making the point about food professionals who are in a position to inform and show us something possibly new and unknown, not about US :smile: !

I understood that you were talking about food professionals. What I'm saying is, couldn't "I am from the southern US and I have lots of words that I pronounce in a southern way: oil, mayonnaise, etc. I'm not going to change and neither should anyone else." or similar apply to them as well? I mean, I went to school in the southeast US and I heard many a teacher (including the English teachers) say things common to that area but technically incorrect when speaking... they were still perfectly able to teach their subject correctly.

It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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I was really making the point about food professionals who are in a position to inform and show us something possibly new and unknown, not about US :smile: !

I understood that you were talking about food professionals. What I'm saying is, couldn't "I am from the southern US and I have lots of words that I pronounce in a southern way: oil, mayonnaise, etc. I'm not going to change and neither should anyone else." or similar apply to them as well? I mean, I went to school in the southeast US and I heard many a teacher (including the English teachers) say things common to that area but technically incorrect when speaking... they were still perfectly able to teach their subject correctly.

Regional speech is different than plain mispronunciation eg "Chi-pol-te" rather than "chi-pot-le".

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Regional speech is different than plain mispronunciation eg "Chi-pol-te" rather than "chi-pot-le".

Regional speech and mispronunciation are not mutually exclusive. Sometimes the common speech of a region includes a great deal of mispronunciation that is accepted as correct within that region.

And, honestly, does anyone believe that half the host on Food Network say 'marscapone' because that's how its pronounced in their region? Is there a regional variety of pronunciations of mascarpone in the US?

I don't know if any of it has anything to do with regional pronunciations. That was just something I was offering as a possibility.

It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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Who even heard of mascarpone or chipotle fifteen or twenty years ago (speaking as an adventurous homecook, I knew but many do not)?

Now ever contestant on Chopped and every host on Food Network is whipping out the Mars-capone and the chip-polt-ee like they were everyday ingredients like cream cheese or paprika.

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everyday ingredients like cream cheese or paprika.

So how do you pronounce 'paprika'? I've heard at least two, both listed in the OED. ((ˈpæprɪkə, pəˈpriːkə) )

By the way, serious question for the 'erb sayers. Do you also say 'erbal' for 'herbal'?

No judgement. I really just wonder and there are no passing Americans here right now.

...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

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'erbs, 'erbal, pi-men-TON.

I have the sneaking suspicion that those of you who say herbs, herbal are the ones who also say BAH-sil. I was taught that Herb and BAH-sil are names for your uncles, 'erbs and BAY-sil are for seasoning your food.

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Elizabeth Campbell, baking 10,000 feet up at 1° South latitude.

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'erbs, 'erbal, pi-men-TON.

I have the sneaking suspicion that those of you who say herbs, herbal are the ones who also say BAH-sil. I was taught that Herb and BAH-sil are names for your uncles, 'erbs and BAY-sil are for seasoning your food.

Oh, really? Not true.

I say "herb" and "bay-sil".

Regarding the pronunciation of "(h)erb":

http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/herb

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/pronunciation/british/herb

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111101124159AAg1LPE

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/25410/correct-pronunciation-of-herbs

etc etc etc.

For my part, I still question why people in the USA have the notion that there is something called "WODDER". I suspect they mean "W-A-T-E-R". Or why some people seem to have this strange name "Scoddy". On checking how they *spell* it it seems they should have said "ScoTTy". Of course, I also still ask folks sometimes for a "s-h-e-d-u-l-e" and sometimes for a "s-k-e-d-u-l-e" depending on which side of the Pond I am mentally in at that moment; or talking about the Boot and Bonnet of my car.

I also ask for "turbot", a type of fish, either at the fishmonger or when choosing from a restaurant menu here in the USA, and have to listen to the servers (sometimes the fish counter attendant) ask me if I meant "turbo".

There is also this language called 'MURCAN, vaguely related to English, and still mutually comprehensible for the most part to speakers of each, at least for the time being.

Edited by huiray (log)
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Thanks for the replies re erbal.

I definitely and unashamedly say herb with an 'h' and basil as BAH-zil [bæzɪl]. There is no logical reason for this - language is seldom logical.

As the Guardian article mentions. 'herb' was pronounced 'erb' in England in the Middle Ages and the pronounced 'h' only became common in England in the 19th century.

'Basil' on the other hand comes from the Greek (via Latin and Old French) where it was pronounced BAH and not BAY. It is related to 'basilisk' and 'basilica'. The man's name is from the same source, so is pronounced the same. It is pronounced BAH in every other language which borrowed the name. BAY-zil is just weird.

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...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Merriam-Webster lists both pronunciations as acceptable. CAR-mel   or CARE eh mel.  It's soft of like waft.  It can be the "ah" sounding a or the a sound as in "at"

 

I agree it's a regional thing. Up here in Vancouver I always hear it pronounced something like "CARE mel". The A in the middle is there, but it kinda gets slurred.

 

Edited to add that as for mascarpone, I'm embarrassed to say that I thought it was marscapone. In my defence, this is how I've always heard it pronounced! And I never thought to check the spelling...

Edited by emmalish (log)
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I'm gonna go bake something…

wanna come with?

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