Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 9)

[Unpopular Poet]

Basque - I should have been clearer on those sweetbreads. They were sous vided after a nice long milk and thyme soak and then reheated. Some were fried, some not, due to how delicious the straight from the bag sweetbreads were. They were then cut up a bit and then mixed with the chopped up fried ones. It was an attempt to offer less fried sweetbread and more simply sous vide. The sous vided sweetbreads were really great and required less attention than my normal poaching, pressing, frying method. Once again, it was the method of choice but not necessarily the right one for everyone. As for that picture..oh boy. Now people know why I don't take pictures. As far as unsuccessful, perhaps they would be an unsuccessful presentation if you wanted that crispy sweetbread, but they were delicious nonetheless.

As far as steak, I would say that I buy nice cuts from my local butcher, who had always has nice marbled, but definitely not prime cuts. Tonight I am going to try a prime cut. NY or Ribeye for this test? I leave it to Paul.....

[SobaAddict70]

The pic's fine, just needs better lighting.

[paulraphael]

NY or Ribeye? I'd pick whichever is your favorite. 

I think 1.5" thick is about perfect for sv steaks. Thin enough that the cook isn't too long, thick enough that the middle doesn't get effected noticeably by the searing.

 

If you put it in a bath that's 1°C hotter than you want the meat to be, it should be about perfect in 1:45.

[paulraphael]

Nobody said it was required, they said it's what they want/like to do. Almost everything we do with food is based on preferences, not requirements. I mean, spear a hunk of meat on a stick and hold it over a fire and nothing beyond that is required for the cooking of meat.

 

 

Yes! And I'm also saying that preference likely has more to do with how a technique was used than with the technique itself—especially with something like s.v. that gives so much control over so many variables. 

 

A lot of bad or mediocre food gets made s.v., just as with grilling, baking, and every other technique. It doesn't make sense to blame the technique without looking first at how it was used. This is especially true for something like s.v., which offers all those variables, and is often used to cook the interior while another method is used for the exterior.

[nickrey]

Perfection is what one finds in a vending machine, studio album, calculations or automated mass production.  Grilling/cooking with friends conjures pleasing nuances, similar to the crooked lines on hand-blown goblets, live music and heirloom vegetables.  Pasteurizing a burger so that it is safe to eat doesn’t strike me as exciting and brings an almost clinical element to the event, kind of like that unpleasant tingly feeling I get anytime someone puts on rubber gloves to perform and benign task (though I use them exclusively when cutting proteins or messy tasks –keeps the fingernails clean).

 

And it’s a hamburger, the great equalizer, humdrum National mascot, America’s backyard contribution to food culture and perpetuator of cheap feedlot beef; not tournedos Rossini.  Though maybe some like to play minigolf with a full set of specialized clubs and a caddie or hire Billy Bean to manage a recreational co-ed softball team. To each their craving and obsession.

 

Most important is the provenance of the meat (moisture, fat, dry-age, animal age, animal’s diet, marbling, tenderness, sinew, etc…) ground in clean conditions and the proper forming of the patty sufficiently in advance (a day prior) to let the myoglobin do its thing and allow the ground meat to stick to itself and not fall apart.  After that, a clean hot grill,  basic senses (touch it, feel it, hear it, smell it) and even modest skill will make for a fine, plump, juicy burger eaten with some haste so that it doesn’t lose all its juices.

 

Grilling over charcoals or wood provides the flavor –both the heat source and drippings from the ingredient which smoke over the embers.  Color of doneness within an accepted margin is aesthetics, and it will disappear after charring, caramelizing the natural sugars and creating near unanimous good flavor and crusty crunch.  Caramelized/seared beef tastes better than poached beef. That applies to almost anything from nuts to toast.

 

Aside from appearing to be gimmicky, contrived and perhaps a waste of time and resources (plastic bag, electricity) the notion of “perfection” is hopelessly subjective given that the original ground beef product is not a constant, varying from meat to and meat and patty to patty.  There are very few constants in cooking aside for maybe water, rendered fats, industrial condiments, processed cheese and factory milled flours.  Even dried beans vary from year to year and while the method of cookery is deemed “perfect”, the results might not be.

 

SV may very well be helping a generation to unlearn how to cook using fundamental senses and  make them entirely dependent on technology; reduced to pressing buttons and setting timers to hit an unfixed and organic target. SV definitely has its merits, but we’ve all enjoyed seemingly “perfect” burger before the advent of cooking in warm fish tanks.  As for the pictured SV burger, the caramelization looks delicately thin, like a lacquer.  I’d wager that a heartier sear would taste better.

I well remember my heresy of doing a terrine sous vide (see this post) so I have deja vu about this type of response.

 

"Unlearning how to cook." What a load of emotional ...  Let's all go back to the open fire; how dare you use these new fangled oven thingies. Viva tradition.

 

Around 30% of us are going to be change aversive. 30% are going to go with the flow and 30% are going to try new things. How about we all get along and don't criticise others for what we don't want to comprehend?

[Unpopular Poet]

A lot of bad or mediocre food gets made s.v., just as with grilling, baking, and every other technique. It doesn't make sense to blame the technique without looking first at how it was used. This is especially true for something like s.v., which offers all those variables, and is often used to cook the interior while another method is used for the exterior.

 

I can attest to that -- the same dinner thread where the sweetbreads were pictured, I also had some sous vide venison shank -- which I thought was totally mediocre.  If I would have just done them the way I normally do them, they would have been much better off.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but I think it is worth using in tons of applications.  Take for instance the pork shoulder I did at 155 for 24 hours for tacos last night (I'd call them carnitas, but that would be like calling pizza sauce spaghetti gravy) -- I then reduced the liquid in the bag to a glaze and broiled them until crispy -- they were 100X easier than the standard braise I use, plus the clean-up was much easier, plus it took me 20 minutes to get dinner on after a long day.  Great use of sous vide.  Venison shanks...not so much...wrong temp, etc. 

 

Paul -- I am going to go with a prime, 1.5 inch boneless NY Strip for dinner (I am chosing NY strip over RE only due to overall size in the end).  This is a test, so I am going to ask for a few more details, just to make sure it is prepared in your fashion -- Questions -- Salt?  Pepper?  Butter?  If it is 1 degree more Celsius, then I am going to go with 56 degrees for 1 hour, 45 minutes.  Thanks!

[paulraphael]

I sent a link to my notes by p.m..   Sounds like you know what to do. I don't like to salt before cooking s.v., because I almost always use the bag juices as a sauce foundation, and they get too salty. And in some cases with longer cooks, pre-salting can start to cure the meat and give odd flavors an textures. So I just salt before searing.

 

If you're using a vacuum machine you don't need to add anything to the bag. I use ziplocks, so I generally add a bit of stock or beurre monté.

[Tri2Cook]

Except when it comes to food safety.

Even that, outside of a restaurant/food service setting, is technically a preference. It's an advisable preference but not a requirement. Nobody will inspect or enforce it, it comes down to whether or not a person is willing to accept the potential consequences.

 

[haresfur]

I freely admit that one of the attractions to me is that SV improves on my other cooking skills. If I can concentrate on getting the right browning on the outside of my meat without worrying about getting the inside cooked to the proper degree at the same time, that's a huge plus. I understand the point of view that perfection can be overly sterile (no pasteurization pun intended), but I don't think that's an issue in this case.  Undone/overdone interior of a burger is a fail but the right amount of char is the art.

[Unpopular Poet]

Unfortunately, I didn't take a pic of the finished NY Strip.  I will say however, that it was delicious.  I think maybe that my problem in the past has maybe been salting prior to bagging?  This went straight in, with no butter, no salt, no pepper -- and then into a 56 degree bath for just shy of 2 hours (it shut off after 1:45, but I was still putting my little guy to bed).  I dried it off, and seared it in a scorching pan of clarified butter, seasoned and consumed.  It was a total success -- I loved it, as I do all things steak.  I have to say though, that I did not see a drastic difference between this, and the normal preparation -- this time it was significantly juicier than previous attempts -- I credit both the prime cut and the lack of salt in the bag -- The steaks I normally buy are very nice, but not Prime -- there is decent marbling, but not as seen below.  This was the first NY strip I have done sous vide, since all previous have been REs - which I will happily do next week.  We are going to the beach on Saturday, and I am thinking of sous viding the burgers and then finishing them on a small grill, right on the beach.  Thanks for all of the tips and comments.

 

EDIT:  One note I forgot to mention -- there was significantly less liquid in the bag this time around, when done.  Maybe 1/4 of what would normally be in there.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Unpopular Poet (log)

[paulraphael]

That's a beautiful looking steak. Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately you're going to have to a few more runs of the experiment (so the results will be scientific ...  : )

[Unpopular Poet]

That's a beautiful looking steak. Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately you're going to have to a few more runs of the experiment (so the results will be scientific ...  : )

 

It is a horrible job -- but someone has to do it.  

[weedy]

There will always be people who are convinced that nothing should ever change (whether it's politics or cooking) and that when it does it MUST be 'bad'

Fish tank or not... the perfectly edge to edge med rare LaFrieda burgers I sous vide and then sear (and yes, just a 'lacquer'- which one could also read as only the outside is seared so it's not OVERCOOKED for the first 1/4" on each side) is the best burger I've ever had.

[quiet1]

"------ Almost everything we do with food is based on preferences, not requirements. ----"

 

Except when it comes to food safety.

 

The perfect control of temperature offered by the SV method makes it much simpler. As a matter of fact, throw away your thermometer, it does not matter how thick or how cold your meat is when you cook SV.

 

dcarch

This is a large part of why I just jumped on the kickstarter for the Anova - my mother is immune compromised (she has cancer) and while there are plenty of things that I don't feel any urgency to try doing sv, it will be good to have the option of being very sure that something not served well-done and cooked to death is still safe for my mom to eat.

(That isn't the only reason, but it is what motivated me to get something now rather than keep it on a list as a technique to play with for fun someday.)

[rotuts]

""  it makes a killer poached egg  ""

 

what SV does with eggs is interesting:

 

The Egg comes in its own water proof  ( os sorts ) container   no vacuum needed, nor plastic heat sealed or Zipped

 

the water bath cooks the egg  exactly how you like it, once you study the problems w eggs

 

over and over and over and in bulk.

 

very delicate proteins   ( eggs, 'soft' fish ) can be cooked in a reproducible manner to anyones exact

 

specifications.

 

if one did just those two categories its justifies an Anova and some Zips for the Fish.

 

these BTW are short time cooks.

Edited June 5, 2014 by rotuts (log)

[lordratner]

""  it makes a killer poached egg  ""

 

what SV does with eggs is interesting:

 

The Egg comes in its own water proof  ( os sorts ) container   no vacuum needed, nor plastic heat sealed or Zipped

 

the water bath cooks the egg  exactly how you like it, once you study the problems w eggs

 

over and over and over and in bulk.

 

very delicate proteins   ( eggs, 'soft' fish ) can be cooked in a reproducible manner to anyones exact

 

specifications.

 

if one did just those two categories its justifies an Anova and some Zips for the Fish.

 

these BTW are short time cooks.

As with many other SV applications, I combine old with new when cooking eggs. 

 

45 Mins at ~63C, then into a pot of just boiling water for a minute or so. Firms up the whites to give a more familiar poached egg exterior, but reliable, repeatable runny yolks. 

[nickrey]

I do 63.2C for one hour then rapid chill. For serving I then break the egg onto a saucer and slide into low simmering water for two minutes. So similar to lordratner but with the option of cooking a dozen and reheating them in smaller batches. 

[Robin G]

America's Test Kitchen tests zip-lock bags:

http://lifehacker.com/the-best-and-worst-plastic-food-storage-bags-1586641563

[rotuts]

thanks.  Ill take a peak at that article in the library

[agent00F]

SV may very well be helping a generation to unlearn how to cook using fundamental senses and  make them entirely dependent on technology; reduced to pressing buttons and setting timers to hit an unfixed and organic target. SV definitely has its merits, but we’ve all enjoyed seemingly “perfect” burger before the advent of cooking in warm fish tanks.  As for the pictured SV burger, the caramelization looks delicately thin, like a lacquer.  I’d wager that a heartier sear would taste better.

 

This statement implies that tradition cooking is more fundamental which just conflates "tradition" with "fundamental". This is an obvious error since what came before is largely arbitrary. For example, riding a horse is no more "fundamental" than driving a car.

 

Generally SV (ie cooking at a specific uniform temperature) is the more basic/simple/controlled technique (in contrast to the many variables of an open fire); it simply takes a slightly more complex tool to do so. Same for the Go/Stop pedals in a car vs the nuances of cajoling a horse. Braking everything down to distinct elements is the best pedagogical method.

----

This stems into the discussion above about taste preferences in SV meat. My own technique for creating less mushy results is to stab it with a bladed tenderizer (a la Jaccard) so the cook times can be shorter for just as "tender" results, and therefore retain more texture. The real challenge with SV is rendering/gelatizing the fat/tendons before the rest of the meat turns soft; this can only be done by butchering a bit more to seperate the different elements here before cooking.

 

To hammer home the first point, though less "traditional", more descrete seperation of animal tissue is a more controlled and therefore more "fundamental" than throwing everything into the same pot and hope for the best.

Edited June 7, 2014 by agent00F (log)

[paulraphael]

I assume anyone rejecting sous-vide for anti-technology reasons would also reject thermostat-controlled ovens.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

A while ago I cooked four boneless pork chops sous vide.  The first was great.  The second was rubber.  I sautéed it far too long.  Tonight's was perfect:  high heat 20 seconds per side.

[Baron d'Apcher]

This statement implies that tradition cooking is more fundamental which just conflates "tradition" with "fundamental". This is an obvious error since what came before is largely arbitrary. For example, riding a horse is no more "fundamental" than driving a car.

 

Generally SV (ie cooking at a specific uniform temperature) is the more basic/simple/controlled technique (in contrast to the many variables of an open fire); it simply takes a slightly more complex tool to do so. Same for the Go/Stop pedals in a car vs the nuances of cajoling a horse. Braking everything down to distinct elements is the best pedagogical method.

 

Virtually anyone can press go/stop.  Few can cajole a variable horse.

SV is more than uniform temperature.  It involves a sealed vacuum.

 

To hammer home the first point, though less "traditional", more descrete seperation of animal tissue is a more controlled and therefore more "fundamental" than throwing everything into the same pot and hope for the best.

 

Then apply discipline and pay attention.  I don’t understand how not using vacuum and 1/10^th of a degree specific circulation for hours, even days equate hopelessness and irretrievable randomness.

 

For simmering oxtail at low temperature I do so on a diffuser with a thermometer and over the course of 5-6 hours the variance of temperature and evaporation is negligible.  I can test the oxtail for tenderness, I enjoy the perfume of the broth, can taste it to rectify for future recipes and generate 2 gallons worth of stock to make consommé. 2 yields from 1 ingredient in 1 pot.  I can’t practically do the same with SV and don’t like inserting the circulator in fats or stocks.

 

SV has its merits and I wholeheartedly endorse gently, accurate, controlled, low cooking. I use when I feel it is appropriate and doesn’t eliminate the pleasurable practicum of cooking.  I take pleasure and satisfaction in the proper process of slow braising partly submerged, turning over every ½ hour after the top has caramelized, basting, poking, prodding, tasting until it is sufficiently tender and done.  I get reduction, concentration of flavor from the caramelizing meat, all in 1 pot in 6 hours with absolutely no worries about pasteurization.  And then I get a sauce, ½ the equation of a braise.  With SV I can’t check on what is going on inside and the collagen doesn’t break down in the same manner to my liking.  And I don’t get the "cuisson", stock or makings of a sauce. A SV “braise” doesn’t even really constitute a braise since there isn’t the combination of dry and wet heat. It's more of a poach.

 

I tried SV stuffed lamb breasts with multiple variations and each time the forcemeat was mealy and mushy by the time the breast meat was tender.  The slow roasted counterparts (seared, slow roasted covered and then uncovered) were much better every time.  Lamb saddle SV had the promised results, but with very little thrill in practice.

 

I SV preparations that are cooked through (above 150F) and for which the vacuum helps retain the shape (though it often requires freezing so that the vacuum sealing doesn't deform it), moisture and the cooking liquid is discarded, doesn’t benefit the ingredient or minimal in quantity (galantines, tongues, hams, hearts, confit tuna) but for the rest rely on (and test) my analog senses. That, for me, is what differentiates a cook from a machine. 

 

I assume anyone rejecting sous-vide for anti-technology reasons would also reject thermostat-controlled ovens.

 

No.  One is a vacuum, the other is a temperature control.  Thermostat control is a very simple mechanism that has existed since the 1600’s. The thermostat isn’t what prevents anyone from being able to gauge, taste, rectify the product during the cooking.  The vacuum bag does.

[agent00F]

SV doesn't require any more "vacuum" than dunking a bag in water to increase surface contact area. The temp control itself is no more complex than any other digital microcontroller which exists in just about any modern kitchen appliance.

 

> Virtually anyone can press go/stop.  Few can cajole a variable horse.

 

That's the point. Riding a horse is more difficult than driving a car despite the car's greater mechanical complexity.

[agent00F]

As an example to illustrate, the control knob on a gas range directly influences the amount of gas/btu/power it outputs, whereas the same control on electric ranges are a thermostat. These are entirely different way to control the range/output (power output generally integrates over time to temp, minus losses) even though recipes always call for low/high heat without differentiating what that means.

No amount of skill/experience can discern the "right" temp curve from that unless you can read the author's mind what the result should be like.