Cooking with "Chocolates and Confections" by Peter Greweling (Part 2)

[curls]

Thanks Kerry.

[JenBunk]

So I am making the Coconut squares form the book and had a question about the Frappe. I make the frappe last night and all seemed fine. It had the same consistency as marshmallow fluff. Well this morning I noticed that there was a sort of syrup on the bottom and what was on top had the texture of whipped egg whites. Did I do something wrong or is that normal? Should I whip it again? HELP??

Jenny

[Kerry Beal]

Mine has never separated - so not sure what might have happened. Perhaps Chocolot will weigh in - she's the expert in all things mazetta/frappe.

[curls]

For future reference, you can use marshmallow fluff instead of making your own Frappe. Pretty sure I read that in Greweling's At Home book.

[JenBunk]

Update: I just threw it back in the mixer and put it on high and viola, it came back together. I was not expecting it to be that forgiving as sugar for me rarely is

For anyone who might make this in the future, I would suggest cutting the recipe to a quarter or at least half. I wasn't really paying attention and just went with the recipe and ended up with way more frappe than I know what to do with. Also the book says you need a 5 qt mixer (which is what I have) and there was no way that it was going to all fit in there.

Curls-I did know about the fluff substitute, but I am a glutton for punishment I guess:) I even made my own invert just for this recipe too! All I can say is this better be the best coconut confection EVER!! The fluff is looking pretty good right now.

[JenBunk]

Can anyone tell me what the shelf life for the Frappe might be? I have a lot extra and I was wondering how long I have to use it up.

[Chocolot]

Put it in the fridge. Should last a few weeks. Might need to stir it again.

[JenBunk]

Thanks Ruth!

[chocofoodie]

Hi Everyone,

I've been on a long break from chocolate making and have tried to plunge back in with Grewling's caramel cream filling (p. 210) today. I ended up with two batches of caramel cream filling, the first being a nice dark color, like the picture and the second being really light. So the dark one I made first tasted bitter so I figured somewhere in the process I must have burnt the sugar. So I tried again but this time I guess I didn't cook the sugar enough. The second one is also not as fluid as the first. Do you think I can cook it some more to get a deeper more caramel like flavor? Grewling advises to add more cream if it's not fluid enough, but how do I do that? Do I need to reheat it all and then add more cream? Anyone know what temperature the sugar should get to so I can achieve a caramel cream filling like Grewling's photo?

Thanks!!

[chocofoodie]

My two trays of caramel are still sitting on the counter. I'm not sure what to do with them. I'm tempted to try and 'recook' the light caramel with some more cream to see if it improves the taste and fluidity. The dark caramel has a slightly bitter taste, of burnt sugar. I'm worried about putting it in the chocolate and it tasting nasty. But I dont know what else to do with it. Any tips?

[curls]

How about trying a little bit of your dark caramel with a bit of chocolate and see how it tastes. When you try them together you should be able to approximate how this will taste and decide if the bitter component is too bitter for you (or just right).

[Jim D.]

My two trays of caramel are still sitting on the counter. I'm not sure what to do with them. I'm tempted to try and 'recook' the light caramel with some more cream to see if it improves the taste and fluidity. The dark caramel has a slightly bitter taste, of burnt sugar. I'm worried about putting it in the chocolate and it tasting nasty. But I dont know what else to do with it. Any tips?

About the dark caramel: Recently I made a caramel that turned out darker than I had planned (the color change is very fast). I went ahead and put it in molds with a Valrhona really dark chocolate. I renamed these "burnt caramel" chocolates, and they were a big hit. If you really want them lighter, you can heat the caramel and add some warm cream. I have taken a caramel that was too fluid and recooked it, and it was fine. As there is no chocolate in Greweling's recipe, you don't have to worry about what would otherwise be a complicating factor. But before you "lighten them up," I would ask some people to try them. Burnt caramel is very popular. You could try it as a sauce over an apple dessert. There is a place in Cambridge, Mass., that makes a fantastic burnt caramel ice cream that is one of their biggest sellers.

[chocofoodie]

Thanks for the great ideas! I'll try it and see what happens. If the consistency is not as fluid now from sitting on the counter, should I heat it up to make it more fluid again? Or should I add cream to it?

About the light caramel, can it be darkened? Is there such a thing? and can it be made more fluid?

I was wondering if one of the things that went wrong the second time was because I was worried about it burning again I cooked it really really slowly. I mean it took forever to melt the sugar and I was stirring the whole time. I feel like the change in the process of cooking the sugar contributed to the change in fluidity the second time around. Is there any merit to this or am I completely wrong here? Because the second time not only was the caramel really light, it was also a much thicker texture, more like soft caramel you would dip rather than something you could pipe into a mold.

[Jim D.]

If the goal is to get the dark caramel into molds, then I would heat it just a little, cool it off to the right temp for piping (Greweling says 77 F., Notter gives a higher temp)--you don't want to melt the chocolate in the molds.

I should give a disclaimer: there are many more knowledgeable people on this forum on the subject of caramel, so please take what I say as just suggestions. Everything I know about caramel is from Greweling and Notter--oh, I should add, also from sad experience. Greweling says (contrary to what seems rational) to cook caramel at a very high temp, to melt the sugar as fast as possible. It's scary, but it does speed things up a great deal. The trick is to take it off the heat a little before it's the color you want--easier said than done.

I don't know why you got a thicker texture the second tme; it should end up the same regardless of how you cooked it. I would check Greweling's chart of what can go wrong with caramel. The final texture is governed by the temp to which you cook it once the cream has been added. I have had good luck with Notter's suggestion of 230 F.--it pipes easily into molds, firms up some, but stays soft enough to know you are eating caramel. William Curley (in Couture Chocolate) says to take the caramel off the heat as soon as you add the cream (in his delicious orange and balsamic caramel), but I found that resulted in a caramel that never firmed up and had to be cooked longer. By the way, note the photo accompanying the Greweling recipe you are using--the caramel is quite soft and flowing.

[Chocolot]

If it is too firm, you possibly removed too much moisture from heating the cream. Did you keep it simmering while you slowly cooked the sugar? If you want it softer, add more liquid, but be careful not to make it too runny. i find Greweling's recipe right on. I wouldn't be afraid of the slightly bitter caramel. Many people like that. I like a little bit of burnt, but not too much. I have customers who love it really dark.

[Darcy]

Can anyone give me advice on marshmallows? I have made the recipe from C&C and it turned out a bit "wet"? I didn't like the texture. Also, do we need to add the invert sugar? He doesn't use it in his "at home" book, so I wondered what s the reason for it and if omitted what would be used to replace it? Does anyone use a different recipe other than Greweling?

I also have varying degrees of success with sponge candy and I notice he uses gelatin in his C&C book but not in the "at home" recipe. Can anyone tell me the purpose of the gelatin? I don't want to use unnecessary ingredients if it's not essential. Thank you in advance

[Kerry Beal]

Welcome Darcy.

I think the gelatin in the professional book helps with the structure - another trick is to put the container in a warm oven - then pour the hot sponge into the warm pan and leave it in the oven as it cools down.

I suspect the invert sugar in the marshmallow is for shelf life and perhaps texture - cream of tarter is used in some marshmallow recipes - that causes the inversion of sugar so would have much the same effect.

[Darcy]

Thankyou Kerry, your answer is much appreciated! Caramels and Marshmallow, these are the candies I am trying to perfect but it's not easy. Can I ask what you would think the perfect depth for caramels are? I thought half inch? is this too deep? Most recipes I've tried tell you the size tin to use but the caramels always end up too thin

[Kerry Beal]

Thankyou Kerry, your answer is much appreciated! Caramels and Marshmallow, these are the candies I am trying to perfect but it's not easy. Can I ask what you would think the perfect depth for caramels are? I thought half inch? is this too deep? Most recipes I've tried tell you the size tin to use but the caramels always end up too thin

I guess it depends what I'm doing with them. If they are just going to be cut and wrapped - then I like them a bit thicker - maybe even up to 3/4 inch. For dipping in chocolate I might go thinner.

If you are finding them thinner than you want - using caramel rulers would give you the option of making the 'tin' the size you want.

[Jim D.]

Ill try next time, thank you John

On another recipe, the Cocomels, I just made a batch yesterday and I will coat them today. I have few questions for who already made these.

-I have already noticed that the recipe for his carame ( the one with evaporated milk ) produce a very sticky caramel, much different from the one I am used to, and I dont necessarily like it. Is that the way it is or its just me?

-The coconut caramel layer is still kinda sticky and when I cut into it it tends to fall over the caramel layer. So the result is a kinda sticky too mushy coconut layer and a little bit to hard and sticky caramel. I know already this recipe isnt for me, its too sweet and too sticky.

I dont know why I am having such hard time with his recepies, the theory works fine for all the ganaches, but the other recepies are always a disapointing, or maybe I am cursing myself thinking the recepie isnt going to work .

I am about to give up on some of his recepies and just keep the theory.

I am responding to an older post (6 years!) as I know the forum doesn't like new threads started when there are old ones on the same topic.  In any case I tried Greweling's cocomels today--without success.  I cooked the caramel to the prescribed temp and also tested it, but it got too hard.  I melted it down, added some cream, and got the temp more or less right as the caramel was firm but still pliable.  The coconut mixture was sticky, but seemed OK.  When I tried to cut the slab into bars, however, nothing went right.  Oiling the knife (as recommended) did no good.  The two layers got too distorted to look at all right.  So I quickly decided to form a "patty" shape with the caramel (now with its chocolate foot) on the outside, the coconut on the inside.  They looked OK (or so I thought).  I dipped them in dark chocolate, and slowly but surely most of the patties developed pinholes through which droplets of either caramel or coconut were oozing.  This got worse as I watched.  The pieces were delicious (though quite sweet), but completely unpresentable.  I quickly whipped up an alternate chocolate that includes both caramel and coconut, but molded so that I don't have to deal with shaping and dipping.

 

What I am interested in getting some advice about is the fact that the pinholes developed.  I am fairly certain the dipping chocolate was tempered properly.  The interiors appeared to be covered completely.  I know that coconut can interact with dark chocolate, but I understand that the reaction takes some time, whereas this happened immediately.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[keychris]

The chocolate was contracting around a slightly fluid filling, which didn't like being compressed, so it forced its way out of microscopic gaps in the chocolate that hadn't fully set. I have no idea how to prevent it

[jmacnaughtan]

I was wondering whether it might not be a good idea to let the coconut mix "dry" overnight to improve the texture and hold.  This is often done wiith the coconut rochers before baking.

[Kerry Beal]

The chocolate was contracting around a slightly fluid filling, which didn't like being compressed, so it forced its way out of microscopic gaps in the chocolate that hadn't fully set. I have no idea how to prevent it

I suppose if you used over tempered chocolate it wouldn't contract as much and might help.

[Jim D.]

I was wondering whether it might not be a good idea to let the coconut mix "dry" overnight to improve the texture and hold.  This is often done wiith the coconut rochers before baking.

I did let the coconut stand overnight, and it appeared somewhat firm.  When I started to cut it, however, I saw that it was still quite soft underneath the crust that had formed.  I would love to see Greweling make this confection; the sample in his book is perfect.  It does seem to me that getting the caramel just right is quite difficult.

[Tri2Cook]

So hopefully my questions haven't already been asked because I didn't want to read through pages and pages to find out and it didn't turn up via the search. My first question is, can the mint fondant recipe be cooled enough to pipe into shells or will it be too firm by that point? The recipe says to deposit it right away with a warm depositor and then enrobe after cooling so I'm guessing it can't be cooled enough for shells but I thought I'd ask anyway. My other question is, I know the meltaways can be used in shells but should they be? What I mean is, does the chocolate shell take away from the whole experience of them melting away?