What Do You Drink with Dinner?

[quiet1]

Just as an aside - in your original post, you queried: "My wife and I had a discussion about the disappearance of milk from US dinner tables yesterday: when did it happen? why did it happen? And is our little sample of the world accurate?"

I think the answer is pretty simple. Americans have learned to overdose on sugar. I remember eating out with my family many years ago. You'd look around the restaurant at the tables, and you'd never see sweet sodas at dinnertime. Although at lunchtime, you might see some adults drinking sodas, they were very definitely the minority. And very very rarely were children drinking sodas.

Now? Look around the next time you're eating at a casual diner or "family restaurant." At nearly every table you'll see a gaggle of (often overweight) children and adults sucking down sweet sugary sodas. Usually with endless refills.

I stay out of my children's family business, but my one daughter-in-law is a big fan of sugar. I have to bite my tongue every time I see her stirring some sort of chocolate or strawberry sugary goop into my grandchildren's milk. She says that "they won't drink it without it." Well hell no they won't. Not when you're standing right there holding that can of crap. Show me a six-year-old that would. When they come to visit me, I won't buy that stuff so, guess what, they drink the milk without it. And, this same daughter-in-law was putting honey on her children's ham sandwiches. I had never heard of such a thing. Adding honey to a ham and cheese sandwich? She said, again, well, they won't eat them without it. Except that at my house, my little granddaughter downed an entire package of deli-sliced ham. Without honey.

So that's what's happened to the traditional American family dinner with glasses of milk sitting around. Not sweet enough for today's average soda-sucking American.

And not as much profit in selling milk as there is for the big-advertising soda companies to get Americans hooked on their worse-than-worthless concoctions of artificial flavorings, sugary syrup and water.

For anecdotal evidence - when I was 6 I probably would've had the milk without stuff added to it as much, if not more, than with. (I was a weird little kid, though - my mom made the mistake of introducing me to high end chocolate and candies when I was young, you know stuff that's sweet but sweet WITH FLAVOR, so I generally disliked most everyday junk food because all I could taste was sweet-sweet-sweet. I did well at Halloween trading everyone else for the few candies I did like, though. )

These days I tend to drink milk not with a meal unless it's a spicy meal and I need something to cut the heat. Like some of the other comments, I tend to find milk and similar drinks with a strong flavor or mouthfeel have too much potential to interfere with the meal itself. Usually I go with water (sometimes with lime or lemon) or iced tea if I want the caffeine. I have to limit my alcohol intake for medical reasons, so if I do have wine or beer with a meal I like to have water available also. Water for drinking/hydration, wine/beer for sipping as a flavor component. Doesn't take a lot of wine or beer with a bite of the meal to get the flavor benefits from the pairing, so that way I get to enjoy the full taste experience without actually consuming that much alcohol.

I do occasionally have pop, but I'm pretty picky about what I pair it with - usually something like pizza or a burger. If I really want pop and I'm planning to have a meal that doesn't go with it, I treat it as a before dinner drink like someone else might have a cocktail, and then switch to water for the meal.

I used to like a coffee after a meal, with dessert, but my migraines have decided they do not like coffee at all, so now I skip it unless there's a strong tea available that will provide a similar sort of contrast to the dessert.

[huiray]

As for me, I do it because it feels right and makes me enjoy the food more. It's part of the pleasure of eating and a meal does not feel complete without it, even if it's only a glass or a half glass.

To each their own, and I would expect to read sometimes about your marvelous pairings of wine with lots of sumptuous food goodies.

Out of curiosity, though, would you be one who wishes to have some sort of grape-based Western-style (i.e. French viticulture derived) wine when you are having a meal of fiery and mouth-numbing Mapo Tofu, "Water-cooked fish" (Szechuan-type, fish fillets cooked in chilli oil plus other stuff) and other such things? Or, for that matter, delicate Cantonese steamed fish and lots of similar examples?

I ask because I have always been curious why so many folks in the West insist on having Western-style wine with foods that were never meant to meet with such beverages as conceived in their taste profiles. (Yes yes, I am quite aware of the interest in blending Western wine practices/preferences with non-Western foods that did not have Western wines in their taste profiles when they were brought into existence)

I imagine also there is a fair bit of cultural conditioning involved - such as the expectation that wine (Western-type) be involved whenever a meal is to be thought of as "special" (if other than "routine" - see French and Italian cultural mores), no matter what the food type is.

Just wondering.

Edited September 2, 2013 by huiray (log)

[Jaymes]

As for me, I do it because it feels right and makes me enjoy the food more. It's part of the pleasure of eating and a meal does not feel complete without it, even if it's only a glass or a half glass.

To each their own, and I would expect to read sometimes about your marvelous pairings of wine with lots of sumptuous food goodies.

Out of curiosity, though, would you be one who wishes to have some sort of grape-based Western-style (i.e. French viticulture derived) wine when you are having a meal of fiery and mouth-numbing Mapo Tofu, "Water-cooked fish" (Szechuan-type, fish fillets cooked in chilli oil plus other stuff) and other such things? Or, for that matter, delicate Cantonese steamed fish and lots of similar examples?

I ask because I have always been curious why so many folks in the West insist on having Western-style wine with foods that were never meant to meet with such beverages as conceived in their taste profiles. (Yes yes, I am quite aware of the interest in blending Western wine practices/preferences with non-Western foods that did not have Western wines in their taste profiles when they were brought into existence)

I imagine also there is a fair bit of cultural conditioning involved - such as the expectation that wine (Western-type) be involved whenever a meal is to be thought of as "special" (if other than "routine" - see French and Italian cultural mores), no matter what the food type is.

Just wondering.

And so I've just had a thought...

I very much prefer beer with the sorts of spicy foods you mention. But I also lived for a number of years in Asia (Philippines & Hong Kong) and often saw an assortment of what I'd call soda pop on the tables.

The labels on these large bottles set in the middle of the tables were in Chinese or Japanese or Korean, etc., but they looked like soda pop to me.

Were they?

[Meanderer]

I don't know whether milk has disappeared from dinner tables or not but judging by the area devoted to milk at my local supermarket, people around here must be drinking a considerable amount of it during some part of the day. We go through about a gallon each week ( two of us) for breakfast, lunch or dinner, depending on what we are eating.

[FrogPrincesse]

Out of curiosity, though, would you be one who wishes to have some sort of grape-based Western-style (i.e. French viticulture derived) wine when you are having a meal of fiery and mouth-numbing Mapo Tofu, "Water-cooked fish" (Szechuan-type, fish fillets cooked in chilli oil plus other stuff) and other such things? Or, for that matter, delicate Cantonese steamed fish and lots of similar examples?

Not really, unless someone insisted that wine was the way to go. I am pretty flexible. Last time I had a Szechuan dish was a while back for lunch with a couple of business collegues so wine was out of the question anyway, and I am not even sure the restaurant had any. It would not have entered my mind to order wine with the meal, no. Maybe hot tea or a beer.

The types of food I eat ln a regular basis (French, Italian, Californian) are much more wine-friendly.

[rotuts]

Growing up my sister and I drank milk. my father had a glass of beer: Brown Derby from Safeway: with the twist top. my mother water.

'festive occations' ( Xmas, thanksgiving, Easter ) Almaden wine. Grenache Rose was the one.

Id kill to see that bottle again: dancing (drunk?) Chickens, turkey, fish, ducks etc around the back label with a glass of wine in their hands, hoofs or fins.

go figure: a fish with a glass of wine.

now I drink a glass of wine. currently Trader Joe's 'Ordinare' if a spicy meal ( mexican or spicy chinese ) a can of beer.

Edited September 2, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[Tri2Cook]

Thanks, everyone. If you didn't already, can you say why you drink what you do, and what your parents drank growing up?

I drink water with dinner mainly because that's what I like best with food. It goes with everything/clashes with nothing. Actually, it's my number one beverage of choice at any time. I've quit drinking tea, soda and coffee for the most part (meaning I don't strictly avoid them for any important reasons but it's extremely rare that I drink them). I grew up usually drinking water or milk with dinner. We rarely had soda in the house. My parents (and siblings) usually drank iced tea at dinner (the sweet southern style). I was the odd one in the house because I've always preferred iced tea unsweetened, even as a child, so I wasn't interested in the iced tea that was usually in the fridge.

[gfweb]

I'll drink anything but milk or hot tea with dinner. My parents drank coffee with dinner till they died.

[ElainaA]

Our food is heavily influenced by my husband's Italian traditions - we have wine with most dinners. Water always - lunch and dinner.

As a child, my father always had coffee with his meal - dinner, lunch and breakfast. It was a ritual for my mother to prepare it. The coffee was made in a two level, aluminum drip pot. Milk was then brought just to a boil and the coffee poured into it, then the mixture was poured into a cup that already had sugar in it.

In summer that could occasionally change to ice tea. Kids - there were 6 of us - always had milk. I think I was about 12 when I was allowed ice tea with dinner in the summer. In cold weather, I still prefer hot tea with lunch as well as breakfast.

Elaina

[Ashen]

Thanks, everyone. If you didn't already, can you say why you drink what you do, and what your parents drank growing up?

eating at home, water with a slice of lemon . In fact it is my go to drink at home at any time of day. At dinner beer occasionally and at extended family gatherings there is always wine. When eating out it is usually a toss up between water and coffee with the occasional beer if the resto is licensed to serve

I've been waiting for this one! Ashen, why coffee? I've got a friend in her 70s who always has coffee at lunch and I'm mystified by it.

I am not sure how interesting my reason is.. I didn't grow up in a household that drank coffee except for breakfast and maybe after meals on special occassions. The reason I drink it when going out is that I work off shifts. Often when we are going out for lunch or supper I havn't been awake for very long and may not have gotten a chance to have a cup yet. secondary to that reason is that I know our standard go to restaurant serves a really good Canadian coffee . ( This is what they call regular bunn drip as opposed to Greek coffee which they also serve )

[huiray]

... I also lived for a number of years in Asia (Philippines & Hong Kong) and often saw an assortment of what I'd call soda pop on the tables.

The labels on these large bottles set in the middle of the tables were in Chinese or Japanese or Korean, etc., but they looked like soda pop to me.

Were they?

Not sure. Would you happen to have a photo or two from those days lying around somewhere?

I vaguely remember seeing bottles of an assortment of beverages offered and displayed on the table itself only at a few places (of the "dai pai dong" or "dai chow" types, never at high(er)-end restaurants) when I was growing up years ago in SE Asia, and those - IIRC - were both carbonated and non-carbonated drinks often locally produced or bottled. I guess when you say "soda pop" you would mean sweet carbonated types - like the quintessential one, Coca-Cola or Pepsi?

Edited September 3, 2013 by huiray (log)

[Jaymes]

... I also lived for a number of years in Asia (Philippines & Hong Kong) and often saw an assortment of what I'd call soda pop on the tables.

The labels on these large bottles set in the middle of the tables were in Chinese or Japanese or Korean, etc., but they looked like soda pop to me.

Were they?

Not sure. Would you happen to have a photo or two from those days lying around somewhere?

I vaguely remember seeing bottles of an assortment of beverages offered and displayed on the table itself only at a few places (of the "dai pai dong" or "dai chow" types, never at high(er)-end restaurants) when I was growing up years ago in SE Asia, and those - IIRC - were both carbonated and non-carbonated drinks often locally produced or bottled. I guess when you say "soda pop" you would mean sweet carbonated types - like the quintessential one, Coca-Cola or Pepsi?

I was lucky enough to get invited to several large parties and celebrations - receptions, weddings, etc. So everyone was sitting at large banquet-style round tables. Ten-tops. I asked someone what those drinks were and was told that they were "kind of like 7-Up," a lemon-lime sort of thing, and also, what we call in the south, "orange drank." I think they also had some kind of rice wine, and other potent drinks. I sure wish now that I had tried them. But they also had really great beers, so I was happy with that.

However, now, years later, wish I had given them a go so at least I would know what they were.

[huiray]

Jaymes,

Ah, OK, that makes more sense - drinks for the guests at a party of some sort, paid for by the host.

Those (few) places I mentioned were where you, the diner, was expected to pay for what you consumed of what was offered on the table. The waiter would count/note the bottles that you would open or ask to be opened, with or without additional provision of a glass of ice. They were definitely not "free for the taking". :-)

Yes, at banquets and weddings and such there would often (but not always - it depended on the place, the hosts, the type of celebration, the "tone" or "classiness", so to speak, of the occasion) be bottles of stuff like Seven-Up, Fanta (a carbonated orange drink), Coke (Coca-Cola), Pepsi, assorted other locally produced stuff including the lemon-lime things you mentioned, etc., for the enjoyment of the guests as they pleased.

It also used to be that hard liquor would be provided at banquets/weddings, if the host was wealthy enough; and in certain segments of society it was a status symbol to provide higher grades of things like Johnnie Walker Black (JW was popular in SE Asia during my time, long long ago - with JW Black being the premium grade then, IIRC) or Hennessy VSOP (and maybe XO to selected guests or tables - like that of the wedding party itself) to every table, and cases of it would be brought in to the celebration. Of course, suitable appreciation of the stuff was wildly variable, with a GREAT DEAL of happy and indiscriminate splashing of said JW Black etc into glasses of Fanta or Seven-Up (a favorite of the ladies), while a few others (relatively few) would look on with tut-tutting noises under their breaths. At least some others would have the decency to cut the stuff with plain water and ice. All of this is an historical note, of course. :-D

Edited September 3, 2013 by huiray (log)

[Food is my Love Language]

Growing up, my parents insisted that we drink milk with every meal. Our daughters were not big fans of milk, so I didn't push it as much as my parents. Now, water is what I want with meals. I attended a formal ball last year in Poland. The meal with went on for hours with only bottles of vodka and pitchers of fruit juice on the tables. I thought I would die of dehydration.

In my husband's family, kids drank milk. Adults had coffee with every meal.

I've recently noticed that dairy brings on sneezing spells for me and is probably a big factor is the cough I've had for years. I'm not willing to give it up totally, but I avoid it most of the time now.

[quiet1]

Growing up, my parents insisted that we drink milk with every meal. Our daughters were not big fans of milk, so I didn't push it as much as my parents. Now, water is what I want with meals. I attended a formal ball last year in Poland. The meal with went on for hours with only bottles of vodka and pitchers of fruit juice on the tables. I thought I would die of dehydration.

In my husband's family, kids drank milk. Adults had coffee with every meal.

I've recently noticed that dairy brings on sneezing spells for me and is probably a big factor is the cough I've had for years. I'm not willing to give it up totally, but I avoid it most of the time now.

Dairy products encourage the production of phlegm for a lot of people, I think even without any possible intolerances or allergies. I'm always more careful with how much dairy I'm having when I'm sick, like if I'm already having trouble sleeping because of coughing I'll make sure not to have any dairy close to bedtime because that just makes it worse.

I feel like there's a fair amount of anti-dairy sentiment these days also, from various 'health' gurus and that kind of thing? That probably isn't encouraging people to drink milk.

[heidih]

I do not bow to the health guru-gods, and cheese is very much in my life. I think the milk drinking thing is a habit that some kept from childhood and others left behind. I know people who have to stop to pick up milk on the way back from the airport after a trip because somehow a home is not ok without milk in the fridge. The recognition of lactose intolerance may be a factor as well. Then there is the whole bottled water culture competing with the milk culture perhaps?

[Panaderia Canadiense]

Growing up, it was either water or juice at meals, milk if I asked for it but not obligatory except with very spicy dishes (where I would ask for it if it wasn't already in the glass). Mom grew up with water or juice, dad with juice or milk, and they seem to have settled on letting me choose one of the three. Nowadays, it's mostly either water or fresh juice (I'm not all that tolerant of straight-up milk now, and I rarely asked for it as a kid either), but with spicy meals or BBQ anything it's the national pale pilsener, and on special occasions it's wine, paired appropriately with the food.

Now here's a question for those of you who drink wine with meals: straight up, or do you water it? I ask because my family's custom is to water; I'll unashamedly ask for water at restaurants where wine is part of the menu, and this more often than not horrifies the people I dine with. I find that watered wine is an excellent palate cleanser without going to my head and thereby ruining my dining experience - this may sound odd, but wine is far far worse for me than something like whiskey, a single glass of neat wine and I'm squiffy kind of thing.

[FrogPrincesse]

Now here's a question for those of you who drink wine with meals: straight up, or do you water it? I ask because my family's custom is to water; I'll unashamedly ask for water at restaurants where wine is part of the menu, and this more often than not horrifies the people I dine with. I find that watered wine is an excellent palate cleanser without going to my head and thereby ruining my dining experience - this may sound odd, but wine is far far worse for me than something like whiskey, a single glass of neat wine and I'm squiffy kind of thing.

Elizabeth - I am horrified but polite so if I was having dinner with you I would do my best to keep my mouth shut :-) No water (or ice cubes) in my wine please.

And on the same topic my mother-in-law is famous for consolidating the tail ends of wine bottles (aka random assemblage) after family meals - another atrocity. I bought a container of inert gas to make leftover wine last longer and so far it seems to work.

[SylviaLovegren]

Now here's a question for those of you who drink wine with meals: straight up, or do you water it? I ask because my family's custom is to water; I'll unashamedly ask for water at restaurants where wine is part of the menu, and this more often than not horrifies the people I dine with. I find that watered wine is an excellent palate cleanser without going to my head and thereby ruining my dining experience - this may sound odd, but wine is far far worse for me than something like whiskey, a single glass of neat wine and I'm squiffy kind of thing.

My husband waters his wine, almost always. I'll do it with a cheap plonk, but will usually use a sparkling water rather than flat. I HATE the idea of watering a decent wine.

But, I'm like you, I can handle hard liquor much better than wine -- more than a glass or if there's no food and I'm squiffy as well.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

FrogPrincesse - I, on the other hand, will cheerfully add ice cubes to my Malbec, after watering it with sparkling. It brings out another dimension of flavour. However, consolidation of tails is unconscionable.

Sylvia - I'm in the sparkling water camp as well, but I'd be equally comfy watering a Chateau Neuf du Pape or a glass of Thunderbird....

[marlonmark]

Same here I also prepare to have water.. But if there are items like Burgers, Pizza's, Nacho's then would like to go with Soft Drinks rather than water as it helps to swallow food easily and gives some taste to it...

[liuzhou]

Regarding drinks with Chinese food, I can only give my experience (after 18 years in central and southern China.)

 

As usual, it is different in restaurants and home situations.

 

In smaller, informal restaurants you will usually be given a cup of week green tea as soon as you sit down to be consumed as you peruse the menu. In the cheapest places you will be given a glass of hot water (Many Chinese believe drinking cold water is dangerous.) This is usually refillable for free, but few people do. Most people drink beer or local varieties of Lilt or Tango type soft carbonated drinks. The restaurants seldom sell the carbonated drinks but your are free to bring your own. They will sell beer, but often it is warm.

 

In more upmarket restaurants and banquet venues, a better tea is served at the beginning and perhaps also at the end to clear the palate before you go home. It would, in my experience, be very unusual to drink tea during the meal (see exception below). Rather than tea, people again usually drink beer or baijiu (Chinese rice wine). Those not wishing to drink alcohol usually drink Lilt, Coca Cola etc. (often the real stuff, sometimes local varieties - I'm guessing this is what others have seen on banquet tables.) Again, it may be difficult to get cold beer.

In recent years (2 or 3) grape wine - always red for some reason - has become popular at formal meals. It is usually locally produced and horrible. Even when it is good or, even better, imported, I absolutely hate the way they drink it. It is poured into tiny shot glasses and drunk as one of their endless 'toasts'. There is no chance to savour it - often a blessing. Alternatively, they pour the bottle into a jug and top it up with Lilt or 7-Up. Someone recently paid megadollars for a top Bordeaux and did just that - philistine!

 

One exception to the 'no tea with dinner' is, of course, morning tea or yum cha. This was traditionally a celebration of the tea (I'm sure most people know that 'yum cha' literally translates as 'drink tea'). The accompanying dim sum were to compliment the tea rather than vice versa. I'm sure that is less true today. People go for the grub, but tea is still usually served alongside.

In the family home, I find, as has been suggested above, that most people get their liquids from soup, although beer is again a favourite, 90% of the time among the men. Rice wine is still popular among the elderly - it is less fashionable than it once was. Just recently I've seen some of the women drinking this horribly sweet red 'tonic wine' - often home made. There is still a hangover of a stigma about women drinking.

 

For the record and to contribute to the post's main thrust, when I was a kid, I too was slowly introduced to wine with dinner (French mother). The idea of dinner without wine was inconceivable. We, too got it less and less watered down as we aged. When I'm back home in Europe, it is still always wine with dinner.

 

But, here in China, I tend to drink beer most days, but sometimes, usually weekends, I go crazy and have wine. Fortunately, because of my main job, I get crates of free good European, American etc wines delivered regularly. Haven't ran out in years!

The very idea of milk with dinner makes me cringe.

Edited January 25, 2022 by liuzhou (log)

[Bill Klapp]

I recall my parents drinking coffee at breakfast and a gin and tonic before retiring, but I have no memory of them ever drinking anything with dinner. Worse, if my childhood meal was not something that screamed out for milk (God help me, my mother's spaghetti and meat sauce was perfect with milk!), I do not recall drinking anything myself! (I know that we had running water, I just do not recall anybody drinking it!) There was ice tea at every meal at my grandmother's house, and probably at my house, too, at least in the summer. I am guessing that I drank a lot more sweet tea than I am remembering right now, and also ate half or more of my meals at my grandmother's...

[annabelle]

Sounds like my house, Bill. We drink iced tea and my kids drink milk when they are home. We have coffee after supper. When I was growing up, we drank milk as children and iced water as adults at the table.

Booze was for parties and the Elks Lodge.

[huiray]

Regarding drinks with Chinese food, I can only give my experience (after 18 years in central and southern China.)

As usual, it is different in restaurants and home situations.

.....

It would, in my experience, be very unusual to drink tea during the meal (see exception below). Rather than tea, people again usually drink beer or baijiu (Chinese rice wine). Those not wishing to drink alcohol usually drink Lilt, Coca Cola etc. (often the real stuff, sometimes local varieties - I'm guessing this is what others have seen on banquet tables.) Again, it may be difficult to get cold beer.

.....

One exception to the 'no tea with dinner' is, of course, morning tea or yum cha. This was traditionally a celebration of the tea (I'm sure most people know that 'yum cha' literally translates as 'drink tea'). The accompanying dim sum were to compliment the tea rather than vice versa. I'm sure that is less true today. People go for the grub, but tea is still usually served alongside.

.....

Interesting.

My experience (SE Asia then and the USA now) has been that tea was a very common beverage during a meal at Chinese restaurants - i.e. when one ate out - at least with diners of Chinese extraction; although beer was indeed also often consumed by, yes, the menfolk mainly. My father liked his beer, but it would be more common for him and the rest of the family (and most other tables around us) to drink hot tea during the meal at restaurants both high-end and low-end and any permutation in between with regards to Chinese cuisine. So did all of our friends and acquaintances. This applied to both simple meals out as well as banquets - tea would be provided and would be drunk (in between knocking back that Johnnie Walker Black with 7-Up, heh) by various folks. Naturally one would often have a soup to drink as well at "normal" meals (whereas at banquets, in SE Asia, in my time, the soup was a discrete course - if it was even on the menu - to be whisked away before the next course arrived). Of course tea was a certainty with dim-sum - "po lei" (pu-erh) was the "standard" there, often with "kuk fa" (chrysanthemum flowers) added in, when one would then call for a pot of "kuk po".

For myself, I continue to order and drink hot tea with my meal when I dine out at Chinese restaurants.

Edited September 4, 2013 by huiray (log)