Cooking with "Modernist Cuisine" (Part 2)

[Seattle Food Geek]

Can anyone tell me the unrefrigerated shelf life of canned pea butter?

I just got a centrifuge and I'm going to make a batch of pea butter. The book calls for blending and spinning uncooked peas until they separate into pea water and pea butter. I'd like to put the pea butter into 4-oz glass canning jars to donate to a bakesale this weekend.

How long can I expect the pea butter to last, unrefrigerated, in a sealed jar? I'm a canning novice, so I was planning to boil the jars and lids and add the pea butter. Should I use a different canning approach? Is there anything I can do, such as cooking the peas or adding salt, to extend the shelf life?

Thanks in advance!

[FoodMan]

Can anyone tell me the unrefrigerated shelf life of canned pea butter?

I just got a centrifuge and I'm going to make a batch of pea butter. The book calls for blending and spinning uncooked peas until they separate into pea water and pea butter. I'd like to put the pea butter into 4-oz glass canning jars to donate to a bakesale this weekend.

How long can I expect the pea butter to last, unrefrigerated, in a sealed jar? I'm a canning novice, so I was planning to boil the jars and lids and add the pea butter. Should I use a different canning approach? Is there anything I can do, such as cooking the peas or adding salt, to extend the shelf life?

Thanks in advance!

Oh boy. Don't do that. Read the MC chapter about canning in volume 2. In summary, if a product is not acidic (below 4.8 PH) you should not can by boiling. These peas are certainly not acidic enough. Such products need to be pressure canned and that is not advisable unless you know what you are doing and have a proper pressure canner (NOT a pressure cooker)!

[FoodMan]

What pressure cooker do you have, Andrew?

Kuhn Rikon 7qt model 3344. I was gifted it about a month ago, so far it has been great and has been getting more use than my stock pot.

Ditto. I love this pressure cooker and six months ago, I was scared of even owning one! It is great for everything from stocks to beans.

[avaserfi]

I attempted to correct my earlier mistakes with the carbonara, and served it for lunch today. Yesterday's cheese stick was 1/2" thick and 1 1/2" wide. The recipe calls for a stick 3/8" thick and 2" wide, but I'm guessing from the photo that it's actually only about an inch wide, so that's what I made today. I am out of eggs at the moment, so I changed up the toppings a bit, but otherwise this is basically the same thing as yesterday:

Reducing the amount of cheese helped a lot, but I think it could be reduced even further. It's also quite possible that when served with pork belly (as suggested in the recipe) the ingredients balance better on the plate overall. Or maybe the MC team just likes parmesan more than me.

Chris,

Where did you get the HA and LA gellan? Everytime I search online I come across manufacture webpages, LA or unlabeled gellan.

Thanks

[Seattle Food Geek]

I just got a centrifuge and I'm going to make a batch of pea butter. The book calls for blending and spinning uncooked peas until they separate into pea water and pea butter. I'd like to put the pea butter into 4-oz glass canning jars to donate to a bakesale this weekend.

...if a product is not acidic (below 4.8 PH) you should not can by boiling. These peas are certainly not acidic enough. Such products need to be pressure canned and that is not advisable unless you know what you are doing and have a proper pressure canner (NOT a pressure cooker)!

Thanks very much for the heads-up! I don't have a pressure canner, so unfortunately that option is out for this weekend. Can I add lime juice and sugar instead and follow traditional canning procedures?

Alternately, can you advise if the pea butter would be OK at room temperature in a jar for 24 hours with instructions to refrigerate? Or, even in a refrigerator, does the anaerobic environment pose a problem?

Thanks so much!

[FoodMan]

I attempted to correct my earlier mistakes with the carbonara, and served it for lunch today. Yesterday's cheese stick was 1/2" thick and 1 1/2" wide. The recipe calls for a stick 3/8" thick and 2" wide, but I'm guessing from the photo that it's actually only about an inch wide, so that's what I made today. I am out of eggs at the moment, so I changed up the toppings a bit, but otherwise this is basically the same thing as yesterday:

Reducing the amount of cheese helped a lot, but I think it could be reduced even further. It's also quite possible that when served with pork belly (as suggested in the recipe) the ingredients balance better on the plate overall. Or maybe the MC team just likes parmesan more than me.

Chris,

Where did you get the HA and LA gellan? Everytime I search online I come across manufacture webpages, LA or unlabeled gellan.

Thanks

Le Sanctuaire carries both Gellan types, Here: http://www.le-sanctuaire.com/. Just search for Gellan.

[FoodMan]

I just got a centrifuge and I'm going to make a batch of pea butter. The book calls for blending and spinning uncooked peas until they separate into pea water and pea butter. I'd like to put the pea butter into 4-oz glass canning jars to donate to a bakesale this weekend.

...if a product is not acidic (below 4.8 PH) you should not can by boiling. These peas are certainly not acidic enough. Such products need to be pressure canned and that is not advisable unless you know what you are doing and have a proper pressure canner (NOT a pressure cooker)!

Thanks very much for the heads-up! I don't have a pressure canner, so unfortunately that option is out for this weekend. Can I add lime juice and sugar instead and follow traditional canning procedures?

Alternately, can you advise if the pea butter would be OK at room temperature in a jar for 24 hours with instructions to refrigerate? Or, even in a refrigerator, does the anaerobic environment pose a problem?

Thanks so much!

Well, and this is my opinion only and not based on anything specific I read in MC, I think that is fine. I am refering to putting it in jars and keeping it refrigerated not to adding acid to it. In this case though, I would not process it at all. I would just store it in jars in the fridge and it should have a shelf-life of a week maybe. Though, questions that come to mind include:

- If it is processed, wouldn't be cooked and it will lose it's lovely freshness in both taste and color?

- Even if not processed, how long does the pea butter keep in the fridge and not lose that same freshness?

I am just not sure.

I am also very jealous of your centrifuge

[avaserfi]

I attempted to correct my earlier mistakes with the carbonara, and served it for lunch today. Yesterday's cheese stick was 1/2" thick and 1 1/2" wide. The recipe calls for a stick 3/8" thick and 2" wide, but I'm guessing from the photo that it's actually only about an inch wide, so that's what I made today. I am out of eggs at the moment, so I changed up the toppings a bit, but otherwise this is basically the same thing as yesterday:

Reducing the amount of cheese helped a lot, but I think it could be reduced even further. It's also quite possible that when served with pork belly (as suggested in the recipe) the ingredients balance better on the plate overall. Or maybe the MC team just likes parmesan more than me.

Chris,

Where did you get the HA and LA gellan? Everytime I search online I come across manufacture webpages, LA or unlabeled gellan.

Thanks

Le Sanctuaire carries both Gellan types, Here: http://www.le-sanctuaire.com/. Just search for Gellan.

I appreciate the heads up. I really wish I had someone closer who was interested in this type of cooking. I just can't justify that kind of money to make a handful of dishes.

Would other members be interested in splitting some modernist ingredients that can only be purchased in larger quantities? It seems like a distinct possibility if some of us got together as a group and someone with a vacuum chamber (or maybe food sealer) sealed and mailed packages? That way we could split costs and still get our hands on some ingredients which can only be purchased in large quantities.

I know I've mailed a few people iota carrageenan and still have plenty left over.

[jzemlin]

I appreciate the heads up. I really wish I had someone closer who was interested in this type of cooking. I just can't justify that kind of money to make a handful of dishes.

Would other members be interested in splitting some modernist ingredients that can only be purchased in larger quantities? It seems like a distinct possibility if some of us got together as a group and someone with a vacuum chamber (or maybe food sealer) sealed and mailed packages? That way we could split costs and still get our hands on some ingredients which can only be purchased in large quantities.

I know I've mailed a few people iota carrageenan and still have plenty left over.

I would be interested in participating in something like this.

[LoftyNotions]

I just ordered 1 kilogram of Transglutaminase (Activa RM). I don't plan on willing any of it to my children, so e-mail me if you're interested in a smaller quantity.

I'm not sure what interest there'll be, but I'd guess re-distributing it in 50 to 100 gram quantities will work. I'll do it at my cost.

Larry

[blackp]

I just ordered 1 kilogram of Transglutaminase (Activa RM). I don't plan on willing any of it to my children, so e-mail me if you're interested in a smaller quantity.

I'm not sure what interest there'll be, but I'd guess re-distributing it in 50 to 100 gram quantities will work. I'll do it at my cost.

Larry

Be careful with Activa. Once it's opened and exposed to air it degrades fairly rapidly (or at least that's what they say). I keep my opened pack vacuum sealed and in the freezer as per Ajinomoto's recommendation.

I have read (on another eG topic) that some people report decent shelf life for opened packs, but I've not heard of keeping it at room temperature, and I don't want to waste any by trying it out.

Cheers,

Peter.

[LoftyNotions]

I just ordered 1 kilogram of Transglutaminase (Activa RM). I don't plan on willing any of it to my children, so e-mail me if you're interested in a smaller quantity.

I'm not sure what interest there'll be, but I'd guess re-distributing it in 50 to 100 gram quantities will work. I'll do it at my cost.

Larry

Be careful with Activa. Once it's opened and exposed to air it degrades fairly rapidly (or at least that's what they say). I keep my opened pack vacuum sealed and in the freezer as per Ajinomoto's recommendation.

I have read (on another eG topic) that some people report decent shelf life for opened packs, but I've not heard of keeping it at room temperature, and I don't want to waste any by trying it out.

Cheers,

Peter.

Hi Peter,

Thanks for that. That's kind of what I'm hearing also. It's good to get the information about vacuum packaging and freezing it. I'll definitely do that with what I get. What percent vacuum do you use?

I guess over time we'll be the test subjects for shelf life.

Regards,

Larry

Edited for spelling

Edited May 12, 2011 by LoftyNotions (log)

[blackp]

Thanks for that. That's kind of what I'm hearing also. It's good to get the information about vacuum packaging and freezing it. I'll definitely do that with what I get. What percent vacuum do you use?

I guess over time we'll be the test subjects for shelf life.

Regards,

Larry

Edited for spelling

Hi Larry,

I vacuum it at 99%+5seconds which is the setting I use for most freezing purposes. From the little I understand the removal of as much air as possible is the goal so I could probably use a longer time @ 99% next time I open the pack.

[Seattle Food Geek]

Just a thought, here... can I turn my pressure cooker into a pressure canner? It looks like the only difference is the presence of a pressure gauge, and that's something that I can purchase online as a replacement part. It seems like the right sized hole in the lid of my pressure cooker + a pressure gauge = a pressure canner.

Am I missing anything?

[blackp]

Just a thought, here... can I turn my pressure cooker into a pressure canner? It looks like the only difference is the presence of a pressure gauge, and that's something that I can purchase online as a replacement part. It seems like the right sized hole in the lid of my pressure cooker + a pressure gauge = a pressure canner.

Am I missing anything?

I purchased a Presto pressure canner recently and the only difference I can see between it and a pressure cooker is that it has a rack inside which stops anything from actually sitting on the bottom of the pan. This could easily be replicated in a pressure cooker.

I don't think that the absence of a gauge will prevent you from canning with a pressure cooker the only real difference between the cooker and the canner is the size. The Presto is 23 litres where most pressure cookers are between 6 and 10 litres. I might be able to can 12 jars at a time but you could only do 4 or 5 in a regular pressure cooker.

Cheers,

Peter.

[Guy MovingOn]

In Modernist Cuisine it is recommended not to use a pressure cooker for some canning due to the way it vents, as you cannot be certain that when the pressure cooker seals itself that all air has been evacuated and there is only water and steam remaining. The intructions in Modernist Cuisine state to use a pressure canner, allow the canner to vent for at least 10 minutes for all air to have been evacuated, and then close the gauge with the provided weight.

I have a spring valve pressure cooker. Couldn't I simply keep the pressure cooker on a high heat so that it would go beyond the maximum 15psi and automatically vent to relieve the pressure for at least 10 minutes, and then turn the heat down so that it seals and cooks at the correct pressure? Surely that would work the same way as the canner?

Or I could put a weight on the spring valve so it never gets a chance to seal, vent it for 10 minutes, then remove the weight and allow the spring to rise to seal the cooker and build up the pressure...

[blackp]

The only pressure cooker I've had experience with has exactly the same device to control pressure as my Presto canner. There is a small vertical pipe in the lid and a weight with a hole in it sits over this vent.

That's why I made the suggestion that the only difference is the internal rack and the size of the pot.

Not sure how spring loaded cookers work, but with the kind with a weight I contend that they'll work just as well as the canner as there is practically no difference.

Cheers,

Peter.

[sigma]

So, I made the mushroom ketchup today. It tastes great but it looks, well, like poop. Not as in it looks bad, but it resembles the stuff. Is this what others have seen.

[nickrey]

The only pressure cooker I've had experience with has exactly the same device to control pressure as my Presto canner. There is a small vertical pipe in the lid and a weight with a hole in it sits over this vent.

That's why I made the suggestion that the only difference is the internal rack and the size of the pot.

Not sure how spring loaded cookers work, but with the kind with a weight I contend that they'll work just as well as the canner as there is practically no difference.

Cheers,

Peter.

Having just got the pressure canner, it seems the only difference is the ability to accurately measure the pressure via the attached gauge and manipulate the pressure by the addition of extra weights.

Some pressure cookers do not seem to go high enough in pressure (and hence temperature) to reach the levels that you can reliably maintain in a pressure canner. This has to impact the ability to sterilise the food. Some ad hoc methods I've read about include placing a coin on top of the weight but this smacks of bodgy home engineering and there is no guarantee that your cooker will be at the appropriate pressure.

Unless your cooker guarantees maintaining the correct pressure needed to can, it would be most unwise to use it for this purpose.

The canners (under $70 on Amazon link here) are cheap, especially when compared with potentially gambling with people's lives.

[KennethT]

I just ordered 1 kilogram of Transglutaminase (Activa RM). I don't plan on willing any of it to my children, so e-mail me if you're interested in a smaller quantity.

I'm not sure what interest there'll be, but I'd guess re-distributing it in 50 to 100 gram quantities will work. I'll do it at my cost.

Larry

Be careful with Activa. Once it's opened and exposed to air it degrades fairly rapidly (or at least that's what they say). I keep my opened pack vacuum sealed and in the freezer as per Ajinomoto's recommendation.

I have read (on another eG topic) that some people report decent shelf life for opened packs, but I've not heard of keeping it at room temperature, and I don't want to waste any by trying it out.

Cheers,

Peter.

Hi Peter,

Thanks for that. That's kind of what I'm hearing also. It's good to get the information about vacuum packaging and freezing it. I'll definitely do that with what I get. What percent vacuum do you use?

I guess over time we'll be the test subjects for shelf life.

Regards,

Larry

Edited for spelling

Larry, I've had a sample package of GS that has recently celebrated its 2 year birthday since first being opened. I think it's important to say though, that I'm neurotic about how it's kept. When I plan on using it, I take it out of the non-defrosting chest freezer only long enough to remove the amount I need. I then press as much of the air from the sample bag as I can, and heat seal it shut, then put that in a vacuum bag and remove the air again with my foodsaver (my chamber vac is still in the works). I do it this way because my foodsaver would suck the powder into the pump - which you won't ahve a problem with your chamber vac. The original ajinomoto bag that holds the sample has a metal foil layer and is very good at keeping oxygen out, unlike most plastic vacuum bags. They also have an oxygen absorber in the bag to absorb any residual oxygen. I've actually added more oxygen absorbers as time has gone on, becasue I don't know how effective the original one is anymore. So, if you want to distribute the RM, I'd do the same thing - get a pack of either Mylar or foil lined bags, and stick an oxygen absorber in there with them, and you should be good to go.

[FoodMan]

I just ordered 1 kilogram of Transglutaminase (Activa RM). I don't plan on willing any of it to my children, so e-mail me if you're interested in a smaller quantity.

I'm not sure what interest there'll be, but I'd guess re-distributing it in 50 to 100 gram quantities will work. I'll do it at my cost.

Larry

Be careful with Activa. Once it's opened and exposed to air it degrades fairly rapidly (or at least that's what they say). I keep my opened pack vacuum sealed and in the freezer as per Ajinomoto's recommendation.

I have read (on another eG topic) that some people report decent shelf life for opened packs, but I've not heard of keeping it at room temperature, and I don't want to waste any by trying it out.

Cheers,

Peter.

Hi Peter,

Thanks for that. That's kind of what I'm hearing also. It's good to get the information about vacuum packaging and freezing it. I'll definitely do that with what I get. What percent vacuum do you use?

I guess over time we'll be the test subjects for shelf life.

Regards,

Larry

Edited for spelling

Larry, I've had a sample package of GS that has recently celebrated its 2 year birthday since first being opened. I think it's important to say though, that I'm neurotic about how it's kept. When I plan on using it, I take it out of the non-defrosting chest freezer only long enough to remove the amount I need. I then press as much of the air from the sample bag as I can, and heat seal it shut, then put that in a vacuum bag and remove the air again with my foodsaver (my chamber vac is still in the works). I do it this way because my foodsaver would suck the powder into the pump - which you won't ahve a problem with your chamber vac. The original ajinomoto bag that holds the sample has a metal foil layer and is very good at keeping oxygen out, unlike most plastic vacuum bags. They also have an oxygen absorber in the bag to absorb any residual oxygen. I've actually added more oxygen absorbers as time has gone on, becasue I don't know how effective the original one is anymore. So, if you want to distribute the RM, I'd do the same thing - get a pack of either Mylar or foil lined bags, and stick an oxygen absorber in there with them, and you should be good to go.

Same here. My samples from Ajinomoto are almost a year old. I keep the open one in the deep chest freezer, in it's original packaging and tightly wrapped. I only take it out for a few seconds to get what I need out and then it goes back in. I used it about 2 weeks ago and it worked great for a wild boar loin that I posted about.

[FoodMan]

The only pressure cooker I've had experience with has exactly the same device to control pressure as my Presto canner. There is a small vertical pipe in the lid and a weight with a hole in it sits over this vent.

That's why I made the suggestion that the only difference is the internal rack and the size of the pot.

Not sure how spring loaded cookers work, but with the kind with a weight I contend that they'll work just as well as the canner as there is practically no difference.

Cheers,

Peter.

Having just got the pressure canner, it seems the only difference is the ability to accurately measure the pressure via the attached gauge and manipulate the pressure by the addition of extra weights.

Some pressure cookers do not seem to go high enough in pressure (and hence temperature) to reach the levels that you can reliably maintain in a pressure canner. This has to impact the ability to sterilise the food. Some ad hoc methods I've read about include placing a coin on top of the weight but this smacks of bodgy home engineering and there is no guarantee that your cooker will be at the appropriate pressure.

Unless your cooker guarantees maintaining the correct pressure needed to can, it would be most unwise to use it for this purpose.

The canners (under $70 on Amazon link here) are cheap, especially when compared with potentially gambling with people's lives.

Nickrey is correct. That is pretty much why they say in MC not to use pressure cookers for canning non-acidic foods. Theoratically you can. All you are doing is processing the jars under pressure. But to be certain you are doing it right and that your pressure measurment is indeed accurate, you need a pressure canner. Winging it with a pressure cooker might work 99% of the time, but all you need is one screw up...

[jzemlin]

Total rookie question here:

Cooking MC ribs and had a small bag leak last night in one of the bags. I couldn't figure out which bag because the leak was so small and the bags all looked in tact. I added a double bag on each and put them back in a fresh water bath. Is this going to pose any kind of risk or ruin the results?

[KennethT]

ACK!!! My wife just discovered my 2 wagyu beef cheeks that had equilib. brined for 4 days, smoked, and then SV for 3 days for the pastrami.... in the SINK!!! I took them out of the water bath late last night, put them in a bowl of ice water in the sink to chill rapidly for a party on Saturday... I forgot to put them in the refrigerator before I went to bed - so they've been sitting at room temp for who knows how many hours!!!

I was thinking about putting them in a 140F waterbath for 6 hours or so to completely re-pasteurize... anyone have any thoughts about this???

Thanks...

[KennethT]

Total rookie question here:

Cooking MC ribs and had a small bag leak last night in one of the bags. I couldn't figure out which bag because the leak was so small and the bags all looked in tact. I added a double bag on each and put them back in a fresh water bath. Is this going to pose any kind of risk or ruin the results?

I don't think this would cause a major problem, as long as your waterbath water is clean... Did you bag the ribs with any liquid in the bag or were they dry? Did any of the bags have any air in it?

I had a small leak a long time ago, and I never saw waterbath water get into the bag - but some juices came out... that was years ago, and I'm still here!