Food Pronunciation Guide for the Dim-witted

[chefzadi]

According to my Petit Robert, "baiser" usually means "to kiss" come "donner un baiser a quelqu'un". Action de poser sa bouche sur une personne, une signed'affection , de respect, ie: suck face, kiss hand, etc.  In certain contextual situations yes, the term has a more carnal significance. Sometimes there is great confusion when mademoiselle breathlessly urges "baise moi".  It's all in the perception and context, you see.

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I've never heard of this or thought of this. Maybe as a native speaker I'm missing the humour here. F word? I know what the F word is, but I don't see it bouilliabaisse. I see the verb abaisse as it is containted whole in bouilliabaisse.

Read Ben's explanation of baiser. It's to kiss not to fuck.

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Actuellement, the French verb "baiser" must be used with the qualifying verb and preposition "donner un baiser a quelqu'un" (literally, to give someone a kiss) as noted in Ben's explanation above. Otherwise, without the qualifier, its usage changes to a colloquialism for "to fuck".

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baiser= to fuck= gutter French. Baiser "must" be used with the qualifying verb and preposition in sentences. On it's own baiser simple translated means "to kiss". As in English words need to be added, who to kiss, give me a kiss, etc... (even in the slang sense, who or what or where or how or when to fuck) There is no native speaker of French who tell you that baiser on it's own means "to fuck" as the proper definition. They might tell you that it means to "to kiss", but it can also be slang for "to fuck".

To get back on topic. I simply do not see baiser in bouilliabaisse. And if I did I would think of kissing first. In the South of France they speak in a sing song sort of way, over there "e" would be pronounce. Sort of like a hiccup.

[Susan in FL]

Whores ovaries

That's my favorite. I think there was a thread on that, or at least I seem to remember it was discussed in another thread.

risotto..I have a friend who says 'rizott' with no e sound on the end and a long o. Is that the Italian way, or is it also ok to pronounce the o?

Would someone please clear something up?  I learnt from my northern Italian neighbours to pronounce "risotto" with a short "o" in the middle (like "cough") - all I'm hearing now is "risotto" with a long "o" in the middle (like "slow") - so the long "o" is in the middle and at the end.  Is one of these right and one wrong?  Or is it simply one of those lovely dialect things so that both are right?

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I have a friend who came back from a trip to Italy pronouncing it like that, Highchef. For Italian foods when I'm not sure, I often turn to John Mariani's book, The Dictionary of Italian Food and Drink, and he says ree-SOH-toh.

Did anyone ever clarify chai and prix fixe? Varmint, good topic! Suddenly I can't recall pronunciations I'm unsure of, but I'll know where to go the next time I'm stumped.

[Jensen]

To get back on topic. I simply do not see baiser in bouilliabaisse. And if I did I would think of kissing first. In the South of France they speak in a sing song sort of way, over there "e" would be pronounce. Sort of like a hiccup.

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Since this thread is about pronunciation perhaps a quick look at Tess' original comment might clarify things for you. Didn't she say that it was the pronunciation of bouilliabaisse with a voiced fricative (zed...as in baiser) instead of a voiceless fricative (ess...as in abaisser) that put her in mind of the B-word?

Geez, even me with my Quebecois french could figure that one out! (And, IIRC, the F-word is the commonly used verb in Quebec.)

[culinary bear]

I was once asked what these 'funny little canapes are'...

can-apes.

as in... Can apes climb trees?

[browniebaker]

Did anyone ever clarify chai and prix fixe?  Varmint, good topic!  Suddenly I can't recall pronunciations I'm unsure of, but I'll know where to go the next time I'm stumped.

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I'm also eagerly awaiting a lesson on pronouncing "chai," but I can help with "prix fixe." It's "pree FEEKS" And if you want to get it absolutely right, the "r" is pronounced at the back of the palate as if you are about to expectorate -- but make that throat-scraping sound subtle and don't overdo it, or it'll be like high-school French class all over again!

[culinary bear]

Oh, and regarding the bothersome habit of the English having silly names whose pronunciation bear little resemblance to their spelling, we turn now to Monty Python :

Specialist - Ah! Mr Luxury Yacht. Do sit down, please.

Mr Luxury Yacht - Ah, no, no. My name is spelt 'Luxury Yacht' but it's pronounced 'Throatwobbler Mangrove'.

Specialist - Well, do sit down then Mr Throatwobbler Mangrove.

Mr Luxury Yacht - Thank you.

Back on topic, how about 'aioli'? I've heard it pronounced about seven different ways.

Trockenbeerenauslese is, my german colleague attests, pronounced Trockenbearenaushlayzuh.

Edited February 12, 2005 by culinary bear (log)

[Milagai]

Did anyone ever clarify chai and prix fixe?  Varmint, good topic!  Suddenly I can't recall pronunciations I'm unsure of, but I'll know where to go the next time I'm stumped.

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I'm also eagerly awaiting a lesson on pronouncing "chai," but I can help with "prix fixe." It's "pree FEEKS" And if you want to get it absolutely right, the "r" is pronounced at the back of the palate as if you are about to expectorate -- but make that throat-scraping sound subtle and don't overdo it, or it'll be like high-school French class all over again!

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huh? is it that obscure? chai = ch like in church and ai like aye aye sir.

milagai

(rhymes with chai)

[chefzadi]

Oh, and regarding the bothersome habit of the English having silly names whose pronunciation bear little resemblance to their spelling, we turn now to Monty Python :

Specialist - Ah! Mr Luxury Yacht. Do sit down, please. 

Mr Luxury Yacht - Ah, no, no. My name is spelt 'Luxury Yacht' but it's pronounced 'Throatwobbler Mangrove'. 

Specialist - Well, do sit down then Mr Throatwobbler Mangrove. 

Mr Luxury Yacht - Thank you. 

Back on topic, how about 'aioli'?  I've heard it pronounced about seven different ways.

Trockenbeerenauslese is, my german colleague attests, pronounced Trockenbearenaushlayzuh.

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a (long a) oh lee

EDIT: I'm not good at this English phonetic spelling, btw

Edited February 12, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

[Jinmyo]

/mumble

[therese]

Since this thread is about pronunciation perhaps a quick look at Tess' original comment might clarify things for you. Didn't she say that it was the pronunciation of bouilliabaisse with a voiced fricative (zed...as in baiser) instead of a voiceless fricative (ess...as in abaisser) that put her in mind of the B-word?

Geez, even me with my Quebecois french could figure that one out! (And, IIRC, the F-word is the commonly used verb in Quebec.)

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Exactly. Pronounce (as it's written) bouillabaisse. Now pronounce (as it's written) bouillabaise. The former is, as chefzadi notes, the correct spelling. But it's fairly common for non-French speakers to pronounce the former with a "z" ("zed" in Jensen's world) sound at the end.

As for the ambiguity of the term, context is certainly important. In the case of the 19 year old Frenchman who turns to his 17 year old date and asks "Alors, on baise ou quoi?" there's very little ambiguity involved.

Or maybe I just misunderstood.

[chefzadi]

Since this thread is about pronunciation perhaps a quick look at Tess' original comment might clarify things for you. Didn't she say that it was the pronunciation of bouilliabaisse with a voiced fricative (zed...as in baiser) instead of a voiceless fricative (ess...as in abaisser) that put her in mind of the B-word?

Geez, even me with my Quebecois french could figure that one out! (And, IIRC, the F-word is the commonly used verb in Quebec.)

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Exactly. Pronounce (as it's written) bouillabaisse. Now pronounce (as it's written) bouillabaise. The former is, as chefzadi notes, the correct spelling. But it's fairly common for non-French speakers to pronounce the former with a "z" ("zed" in Jensen's world) sound at the end.

As for the ambiguity of the term, context is certainly important. In the case of the 19 year old Frenchman who turns to his 17 year old date and asks "Alors, on baise ou quoi?" there's very little ambiguity involved.

Or maybe I just misunderstood.

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Since you bring up context. If a 19 year Frenchman turns to his Frenchwoman date and says that, he has almost 100% chance of getting slapped in the face and zero chance of getting what he proposed.

Not trying to split hairs here. I'm just trying to help non-Frenchman who might want to get cozy with a French woman to NOT use that word.

Maybe in Quebec it's different.

[chezcherie]

4 pages since this morning--is this a record? (WRECK--erd)?

[jo-mel]

Taboni -- My married name was on that Olde English name listing, when it was listed in the NYT about 45 years ago. Melhuish is an old name too, and the proper pronouncement is supposed to be Mel-hwish.

But back to the food names, QUINOA can be added. I believe pronounced Chee- nwa , or cheen-wa ?

[Jensen]

Maybe in Quebec it's different. 

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When I was in Quebec, it was either "Fous toi" (sp?) or "Fuck you". No baise-ing at all. I do wonder though, since mooshmouse (another Canuck) saw the correlation between bouilliabaise [misspelled for pronunciation reasons] and baiser, if I was just too naive at the time to know what I was hearing. I do recall that "Fuck you" seemed to be far more insulting than the other though. (Caveat: I was in Quebec shortly after the very first referendum and so there may have been a slightly heightened reaction to the use of English.)

Trockenbeerenauslese is, my german colleague attests, pronounced Trockenbearenaushlayzuh.

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I had to laugh at this. Again, my first thought was "But that's how it's spelled!"

Which brings me to this...when I was in Germany, I learned "kassler" but since then I've seen it referred to as "kassler ripchen" (with no attempt by me to transliterate the "ch" sound ).

What's the difference? I know the food is the same thing. Is it just a truncated version of "kassler ripchen"? Also, I've heard it pronounced somewhere between "kass-ler" and "kess-ler". Not quite as if it were kässler but almost.

Which is the correct pronunciation?

[therese]

But back to the food names, QUINOA can be added. I believe pronounced Chee- nwa , or cheen-wa ?

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Oh dear. All this time I've been saying kee-nwa.

Jo-mel, the two pronunciations you propose look pretty similar to me.

[chefzadi]

Thought to be an ancient Quechuan word native to the folks in the high Andes, is pronounced “keen-wa” or “kee-noo-ah.” Also be spelled quinua or quinwa.

[chefzadi]

Off topic I know. Since Jensen brings it up. And it always seems to give people a kick to learn the "naughty" words or phrases in a foreign language. The proper way in France to say "fuck you" is "va te faire enculer".

Back to topic. It seems that the French terms are the most onerous for folks on this thread. ;-)

Maybe ecgi can do a audio course on this. I would happiliy volunteer. Btw, I speak standard French as it is considered in France.

[chefzadi]

Here's a helpful site: Audio Guide to French Culinary Terms

I only wish it were more comprehensive.

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Thank you! Or shall I say, "mercy buckups"?

I am terribly French challenged. Whenever I'm in a French restaurant I get stage fright when it's time to order. I think to myself, "is that "t" or "s" at the end pronounced?" Drives me nuts.

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I visited that site. He's non-native French speaker, I'm guessing American. This can be an advantage to the American learner though. The sounds he makes are more mimicable (is that a word?) for an American. And certainly at his level he would be easily understood, well at least in Paris.

[Busboy]

I have a couple:

Gnocchi for one.  I've always pronounced it 'no-key' with a slght soft g sound before the n, sorta like in gnome.  My roomate insists on saying 'yonkee'.  Please tell me I have the correct version of this one.

Also...

Gyro.  Is it like 'Jai-Roh' or 'Eeh-Roh', I have heard both are supposedly authentic...

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for gyro think hero...thats how iv e heard it pronounced in many a greek restaurant

Yes, but with the "he-" a bit aspirated, if that's the right term, and the "r" not as "errr" as in English.

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The "h" in the "hee-ro" is pronounced similar to -- but a touch softer than -- the "ch" if you're trying to get a Hebrew pronunciation of "Chanukah." In Greek, it's the letter chi -- like the Sigma Chis on Frat Row. It's a pain.

[therese]

I visited that site. He's non-native French speaker, I'm guessing American. This can be an advantage to the American learner though. The sounds he makes are more mimicable (is that a word?) for an American. And certainly at his level he would be easily understood, well at least in Paris.

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If he's American he's remarkably good, and has either lived in a francophone environment, or been very specifically trained to make certain sounds (like "b" at the beginning of a word), and remarkably polyglot at that: as per the web site his name is Eddie Maamry. You can view some biographical information on him by visiting the National Center for Hospitality Studies site and clicking on the Hospitality/Restaurant Management drop-down, where you can then click on his name (which is actually Abdeljalil, Eddie apparently being a nickname).

My son's French teacher, Madame Okou, speaks French with a strong accent, but she would be chagrined to hear her French described as non-native. Not native to France, but French is her maternal language nonetheless.

A nice site, by the way, particularly the syllable by syllable pronunciations.

[Alex]

I have a couple:

Gnocchi for one.  I've always pronounced it 'no-key' with a slght soft g sound before the n, sorta like in gnome.  My roomate insists on saying 'yonkee'.  Please tell me I have the correct version of this one.

Also...

Gyro.  Is it like 'Jai-Roh' or 'Eeh-Roh', I have heard both are supposedly authentic...

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for gyro think hero...thats how iv e heard it pronounced in many a greek restaurant

Yes, but with the "he-" a bit aspirated, if that's the right term, and the "r" not as "errr" as in English.

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The "h" in the "hee-ro" is pronounced similar to -- but a touch softer than -- the "ch" if you're trying to get a Hebrew pronunciation of "Chanukah." In Greek, it's the letter chi -- like the Sigma Chis on Frat Row. It's a pain.

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Yeah, that's what I meant -- the "ch" not quite so far back in the throat. Thanks, Busboy. Of course, most everyone pronounces the frat as Sigma "Kye." I don't know if that's correct, but then, it has nothing to do with food.

[Susan in FL]

Did anyone ever clarify chai and prix fixe?  Varmint, good topic!  Suddenly I can't recall pronunciations I'm unsure of, but I'll know where to go the next time I'm stumped.

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I'm also eagerly awaiting a lesson on pronouncing "chai," but I can help with "prix fixe." It's "pree FEEKS" And if you want to get it absolutely right, the "r" is pronounced at the back of the palate as if you are about to expectorate -- but make that throat-scraping sound subtle and don't overdo it, or it'll be like high-school French class all over again!

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Thanks, and thanks for the laugh. Pronouncing the "r" as you described reminded me of my efforts for the past ten years to learn to use my tongue correctly to say beer in Danish.

I thought I would check about Chai because Varmint mentioned it in the first post. Thanks, whoever answered that.

Oh dear. All this time I've been saying kee-nwa.

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Same here. I guess there are a few of us furthering our culinary education.

[Mooshmouse]

Actuellement, the French verb "baiser" must be used with the qualifying verb and preposition "donner un baiser a quelqu'un" (literally, to give someone a kiss) as noted in Ben's explanation above.  Otherwise, without the qualifier, its usage changes to a colloquialism for "to fuck".

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baiser= to fuck= gutter French. Baiser "must" be used with the qualifying verb and preposition in sentences. On it's own baiser simple translated means "to kiss". As in English words need to be added, who to kiss, give me a kiss, etc... (even in the slang sense, who or what or where or how or when to fuck) There is no native speaker of French who tell you that baiser on it's own means "to fuck" as the proper definition. They might tell you that it means to "to kiss", but it can also be slang for "to fuck".

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Sentential use is exactly what I was driving at.

That aside, my uncle's favourite pronunciation of hors d'oeuvres is horse divorce.

[Curlz]

Chai is indeed pronounced ch+eye (like the ch in church); Chai Tea is redundant, 'tho you see it all the time, but that's saying Tea tea (i.e. ATM machine, which drives me BATS ...ATM stands for automatic teller machine, so you're saying automatic teller machine machine when you use that!)

As for quinoa, I've always been told it's keen-wah.

My dad pronounces gyro as Yeer-oh and swears his Greek friends have told him that's the way they say it. Maybe it's a regional pronunciation?

[*Deborah*]

Chai is indeed pronounced ch+eye (like the ch in church); Chai Tea is redundant, 'tho you see it all the time, but that's saying Tea tea  (i.e. ATM machine, which drives me BATS ...ATM stands for automatic teller machine, so you're saying automatic teller machine machine when you use that!)

As for quinoa, I've always been told it's keen-wah.

My dad pronounces gyro as Yeer-oh and swears his Greek friends have told him that's the way they say it.  Maybe it's a regional pronunciation?

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I can only say ditto to this post; in Montréal, in college, we used to make late-night pilgrimages to the Ste-Catherine Street home of the Mighty Gyro Beast (that big hunk o meat on a spit) to satisfy our munchies. "Gyro" was always pronouned "yairo"...

As for quinoa, think of Joaquin Phoenix (or any other Joaquin of your acquaintance).