Beef Short Ribs -- The Topic

FeChef · January 25, 2016

15 hours ago, Paul Bacino said:

these were pretty spicy and a good balance of flavor

I have the recipe written down somewhere and now that you mention it, i believe i reduced the amount of cayenne drastically in that recipe and a few times i removed it completely and also came up with a sweet marsala sauce using 1/2 cup of cola, 1/2 cup Marsala, 1 cup of beef stock and using just onion, garlic and soy sauce.

Sorry i forgot to mention the original recipe was on the spicy side.

Paul Bacino · January 25, 2016

2 hours ago, FeChef said:

I have the recipe written down somewhere and now that you mention it, i believe i reduced the amount of cayenne drastically in that recipe and a few times i removed it completely and also came up with a sweet marsala sauce using 1/2 cup of cola, 1/2 cup Marsala, 1 cup of beef stock and using just onion, garlic and soy sauce.

Sorry i forgot to mention the original recipe was on the spicy side.

Sorry i forgot to mention the original recipe was on the spicy side.

I didn't mind it!! But for others Thanks

Wolf · December 5, 2018

Today I swung by 'my butcher' to pick up an order (two pork jowls for guanciale and 2 lb. beef tendons) and he didn't have it but had great bargain on old beef short ribs, English cut, so I picked up 5 lb for 9$.

I usually do peposo d'Imprunetta with short ribs (a recipe from Chef John), but I didn't feel like making it today so I fiddled with his recipe for short ribs and porcini braised in tomato sauce (I was a bit underwhelmed how the sauce turned out first time I tried it). In case anyone's interested, here's how I'm doing it (I'd welcome any comments or critique)...

First I browned the beef (seasoned with some coarse sea salt and black pepper) on a tbsp or two of vegetable oil in 5qt Dutch oven, then removed the meat and sauteed 4 finely diced largeish onions on remaining fat. I waited until they were 'reduced' to about the quarter of initial volume (15-ish minutes on relatively high heat), then added thawed porcini (about 3/4 of a cup), sauteeed until onion got down to 1/5th of initial volume, added 2-3 tbsp tomato puree and 'roasted' it for few minutes before adding smoked paprika and cayenne and 'roasting' them some more. Added 2 tbsp flour and kept on same heat for few minutes before adding quality passata (I'd say a cup) and half a bottle of chianti and a cup, cup and a half of beef stock to deglaze, plus 2 bay leaves, a pinch of rosemary and one finely diced salted anchovy fillet. Once it reduced a bit, returned the ribs to the pot and am keeping it on the stove top under laziest of simmmers. So far, it's been abut two hours braising- I seasoned it a bit with ground pepper and stirred in a tsp of mustard. I've started the braising with meat 'bone side down', and haven't turned it over yet- I'm trying to get the bones to yield most of their succulence to the sauce before turning the meat... So far, the sauce is spot on (might adjust the salt, or add a bit of mustard later on), and am, judging by expirience with this older beef, looking at leat at another 2-2 and a half hours braising. I don't think I'll need to reduce the sauce, it's already got a consistency I'm looking for (and it doesn't seem to change too much as braising progresses).

heidih · December 5, 2018

@Wolf I can only add that I started my braising via Julia Child & Mastering the Art of French Cooking. Over time I let the browning go and seemed to get a more gelatinous yield,. My lamb shanks and veal shanks are no longer subjected to the hot pan. Just my 2 cents. On occasion simpler can be better,. I still "brown" the onions and tomato paste and aromatics almost as one would a tadka. Your sauce sounds like ready for good pasta or polenta.

Edited December 5, 2018 by heidih (log)

Duvel · December 6, 2018

10 hours ago, heidih said:

@Wolf I can only add that I started my braising via Julia Child & Mastering the Art of French Cooking. Over time I let the browning go and seemed to get a more gelatinous yield,. My lamb shanks and veal shanks are no longer subjected to the hot pan. Just my 2 cents. On occasion simpler can be better,. I still "brown" the onions and tomato paste and aromatics almost as one would a tadka. Your sauce sounds like ready for good pasta or polenta.

More gelatinous in terms of the meat ? This is very interesting ... Would your assessment then be that the browning “facilitates” the leakage of gelatine into the sauce ?

heidih · December 6, 2018

1 hour ago, Duvel said:

More gelatinous in terms of the meat ? This is very interesting ... Would your assessment then be that the browning “facilitates” the leakage of gelatine into the sauce ?

No what I was trying to convey is that the browning might "seal" the meat and even inhibit. However I am not a science nerd so this is all anecdotal. Browning gives us some "maillard" but I have seen in other cuisines that just "tossing the meat in" may not be a bad thing. I used to brown the lamb shanks but last 2 times just tucked them in the slow cooker. Loved them as much as ever.

Edited December 6, 2018 by heidih (log)

Wolf · December 12, 2018

Thanks for the tip, Heidi. I usually stew for shorter periods (goulash and similar) and never brown the meat- I think the conventional wisdom for goulash and stuff is not browning the meat (the sauce would not infuse meat as much, and in turn meat is supposed to flavour the sauce less when browned).

Later, I found out about jus au pan, which benefits from caramelized bits of meat, and when I started long braised dishes I continued to brown (because everyone else seemed to do it)- but in lieu of Your post, I'll seriously reconsider it. Your way also seems to make sense, so I'm willing to try it out. 👍

BTW, the dish turned out great, except for small niggling detail- it didn't reheat as well as I expected. Despite the sauce getting more savoury each time it reheated, it also lost most of its aroma and spiciness (most notably, rosemary and smoked paprika were 'gone' on first reheat- both beef and wine seemed to taste more pronounced on each reheat)... Oh, and it was really an old cow- it tok me around 6 hours braising to get it tender(ish)...

Victual Vignettes · 2025-10-21T13:02:32Z

I don't know what's happened to me, but after a long spell of not making short ribs or any braises really, I have attempted them twice in the last couple of months with underwhelming results. Specifically, I'm ending up with a too - watery sauce and meat that is "done" but somewhat stringy and not particularly flavorful.

I think I need to go back to the basic elements and get tips on how to amp each step up a notch - what type of wine, ratio of liquid to beef, are you simmering stove-top or cooking in the oven (does it make a notable difference?), type of beef (I have used grass fed on these two recent sub-par attempts). I am open to any and all suggestions.

I should further note that I theoretically have the time to prepare these and let them cook then also cool in order to skim fat, if that is recommended. Essentially, I am able to start at 11:30 a.m. something that won't need to be on the table until 7ish pm. I am working with a large staub dutch oven and cooking with gas (range and oven). Please give me all of your best tried and true tips! Your ultimate instructions. Thank you. I will share my results.

**Smithy** · 2025-10-21T15:19:33Z

I think you're using the right equipment. The Staub Dutch Oven has good thermal mass, and that's what you want although I don't think it has to be Staub. I've had good results with other brands of heavy cooking equipment, and even with glass Pyrex baking dishes and aluminum foil in a pinch. My basic procedure for beef short ribs is:

rinse the ribs, pat them dry, and coat with the seasoning (rub) of your choice;
brown on stovetop in fat of your choice (I generally use olive oil);
add enough water to cover the bottom of the pan, and come up maybe a quarter of the way, no more than halfway, up the side of the ribs;
cover and put into a low oven temperature (225F to 275F);
walk away and leave them for 1.5 - 2 hours, then check; you're looking for the meat to be tender enough to remove the bones;
remove the meat from the juice, let it cool enough to remove the bones, and set it aside;
defat the sauce; make gravy from the sauce if you wish (here's where I would add wine); reduce sauce to the thickness you want; reheat the rib meat in the sauce;
serve and enjoy.

I haven't cooked short ribs since December 2023, but this post shows the steps and the results. The pan used isn't an enameled cast iron because I didn't have one available, but it was the biggest Dutch oven that I had, and it worked well despite its light weight.

Some notes:

@Margaret Pilgrim, in this post, recommended a French Laundry - inspired recipe with video. She cautioned that the volume is very loud, so be prepared to turn it down. This is considerably more elaborate than what I do, and probably orders of magnitude more flavorful.
In an eGCI lab on braising, long long ago, some people reported having good success with stovetop braising so they can monitor the progress of the braise and be sure that the liquid is at the lowest possible simmer. It's never worked as well for me, whether I used an electric stove / oven or gas stove / oven, so I've always stuck with oven braising for best tenderness. YMMV.
For all the detailed experiments and discussion on the braising seminar, search the eGCI for "braising" or "The Truth About Braising". It was a week-long seminar, followed by Q&A, and it's where I first learned about braising and fell in love with the method. The introduction is here.
Some people found that browning beforehand helped; others didn't. Some found that the braising liquid mattered; some didn't. So my method listed above works for me but isn't the do-all and be-all. See my first note about Margaret's method!

Finally: I've never tried braising grass-fed beef ribs, and don't know what the marbling is like. If that meat is very lean, you may have to adjust methods. I've listed what I do with grocery-store ribs. Maybe someone else can help with the grass-fed aspect. My guess, based on your "stringy and not very flavorful" results, is that you're overcooking them and maybe not seasoning them properly at the outset.

rotuts · 2025-10-21T17:05:00Z

@Victual Vignettes

what were your SR's like before ? what type of meat did you use ?

I would think that true grass fed beef presents difficulties w braising : it's leaner , and tougher than grain finished beef.

All braises end up w meat , while tender , when tasted alone w/o the resulting sauce , can be dry and stringy if over cooked.

its the nature of meat fibers contracting , making the sauce.

start w a flavorful beef stock . if using wine , consider a dry-er version , as the sugars will concentrate as the wine evaporates.

but you might want that sweetness.

and let the braise cool , and use the nexxt day if you can . some of the stock re equilibrates w the meat.

over all , I think you meat is too lean , and possibly over cooked.

@Smithy has good refereces , above.

P.S.: Ive only cooked GFB a couple of times , sirloin-ish cuts. I use SV as the method , @ 130 F specifically

to minimize muscle contraction , and timed for tenderness. this got me flavorful tender meat .

not sure if this helps.

Edited yesterday at 05:17 PM by rotuts (log)

gfweb · 2025-10-21T17:46:30Z

I use a pyrex dish and add a cup of red wine, 1 tbsp tomato paste, two tbsp soy, an onion in wedges and a carrot sliced (don't omit the carrot, it matters).

Th liquid should come halfway up the meat. Add water as needed.

Cover with foil and bake at 250 or 300 for 3 hours.

Although I use lots of SV, the product is different than the braised beef and I like braised here.

AlaMoi · 2025-10-21T17:56:36Z

the usual seasonings are semi-consistent across recipes - as for 'too thin' one approach I've used is start with a roux, cook it to dark, use that as a base, adding beef stock as needed to adjust consistency to your liking.

for wine I like Marsala - has a nice flavor twist.

another very successful trick: make it, cool, chill overnight in the fridge, reheat&serve next day.

(the baby potatoes below were boiled and added on service second day....)

rotuts · 2025-10-21T18:12:38Z

@gfweb have you made GF short ribs ? vs grain finished ?

@AlaMoi ditto above ?

good tips here , my guess is that w a braise , independent of ' cut ' , there is going to be a big difference in results

using the exact same cooking method , GF vs Grain finished .

**Smithy** · 2025-10-21T18:56:36Z

@Victual Vignettes, I think you can see from the posts above that there are many, many seasoning and flavor methods in a standard braise... and I suspect that @rotuts has the right of it: grass-fed beef will behave differently than grain-finished beef. Let us know more about what you've done in the past, and maybe post some photos of the beef you're working with now.

gfweb · 2025-10-21T19:02:46Z

50 minutes ago, rotuts said:

@gfweb have you made GF short ribs ? vs grain finished ?

@AlaMoi ditto above ?

good tips here , my guess is that w a braise , independent of ' cut ' , there is going to be a big difference in results

using the exact same cooking method , GF vs Grain finished .

I have done SV short ribs. I like the old school braise. SV is perfectly nice but not what I think of when I hear braised short ribs. I like the veg and the sauce that results from a braise.

Re GF vs GF...I imagine all were grain finished but I don't know

Edited yesterday at 07:04 PM by gfweb (log)

rotuts · 2025-10-21T20:28:11Z

echoing what @gfweb has said

braise is probably more about the sauce , then the meat on its own.

Id suggest always letting the braise cool , and be refrigerated overnight, where hopefully some of that flavor

in the sauce re-enters the meat.

also , ' tradition ' requires temps that have some bubbling .

why not try a lower temp , 170 F ? and thus longer ?

traditional cooking techniques , under expert hands , have been tasty for a long long time.

but can be adapted , with fairly current knowledge , to yield a better result.

and the fat you take off then next day , will not just be beef fat ( currently a Cure-All )

but flavored w other fat soluble flavors. why not use ( some ) of that for a steamed dumpling ?

Rickbern · 2025-10-22T09:13:44Z

15 hours ago, gfweb said:

I use a pyrex dish and add a cup of red wine, 1 tbsp tomato paste, two tbsp soy, an onion in wedges and a carrot sliced (don't omit the carrot, it matters).

Th liquid should come halfway up the meat. Add water as needed.

Cover with foil and bake at 250 or 300 for 3 hours.

Although I use lots of SV, the product is different than the braised beef and I like braised here.

I think the biggest trip up for a lot of people with oven braising is the lid. Get one of those colorful cast iron pots and put the lid on tight and your braise will overheat even in a very slow oven (ask me how I know!). Lately I’ve been following a small variation of this method, but instead of using aluminum foil I make a parchment paper cartouche on top of a small roasting pan. I have an anova oven so I’m at about 250 with 30% steam.

Edited 11 hours ago by Rickbern (log)

Duvel · 2025-10-22T11:04:02Z

1 hour ago, Rickbern said:

Get one of those colorful cast iron pots and put the lid on tight and your braise will overheat even in a very slow oven (ask me how I know!).

I’d like to know what “overheat” means …

Keeping the lid on or using foil, a cartouche etc. simply controls the rate of evaporation. Of course the rate of evaporation affects thermal equilibrium in your braise, but the thermal mass of your cooking vessel the temperature of your oven controls the heat transfer and thus the temperature above the water. As long as there is water in your braise, the temperature under the liquid level remains at 100oC. And without pressure it cannot exceed that, “tight” lid or not …

I usually caramelize veggies, reduce wine, etc. and keep liquids below what is recommended, but evaporation at the minimum. Temp at 110-120 oC, 3-4h …

Rickbern · 2025-10-22T12:00:10Z

1 hour ago, Duvel said:

I’d like to know what “overheat” means …

Keeping the lid on or using foil, a cartouche etc. simply controls the rate of evaporation. Of course the rate of evaporation affects thermal equilibrium in your braise, but the thermal mass of your cooking vessel the temperature of your oven controls the heat transfer and thus the temperature above the water. As long as there is water in your braise, the temperature under the liquid level remains at 100oC. And without pressure it cannot exceed that, “tight” lid or not …

I usually caramelize veggies, reduce wine, etc. and keep liquids below what is recommended, but evaporation at the minimum. Temp at 110-120 oC, 3-4h …

just found this from a search, but this is what I mean by overheating, particularly the kenji reference. Heats builds in a covered pot. Follow the kenji link, he goes into (surprise!) considerable detail near the end of the article.

Harold McGee, in his "Guidelines for Succulent Braises and Stews," advises braising with "the pot lid ajar to allow some evaporation" (On Food and Cooking, p. 163). J. Kenji López-Alt, in his Food Lab article on Great Chile Verde Without Hatch Chiles, notes that a pot with its lid left slightly ajar "stays a good 20°F lower, keeping the meat inside at a temperature far closer to the ideal."

Edit- here’s another from Thomas Keller. There’s a link in the bottom to his short rib recipe

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/cooking-101-learn-how-to-cook-with-a-cartouche

Edited 8 hours ago by Rickbern (log)

Duvel · 2025-10-22T12:40:59Z

31 minutes ago, Rickbern said:

just found this from a search, but this is what I mean by overheating, particularly the kenji reference. Heats builds in a covered pot.

It does not. Beside the marginal effect of evaporation, the pot and its content is in equilibrium with the oven environment. No build up. It will not magically heat up above the boiling point of water. The volume above the liquid may have a different temperature, as the saturation of steam will depend on how much you let escape. But that’s not your point. The chart given by Kenji is worthless without the external temperature.

It’s all about the rate of evaporation.

gfweb · 2025-10-22T13:22:42Z

Then there's the whole issue of "flavors building overnight".

The only test of this that I know of is tasting in the morning and noting improvement.

But I've routinely sampled dinner leftovers 30 min after dinner when I'm cleaning up. Flavors are better t hen too.

I suspect that our tastes get dulled during a meal and everything tastes better after our taste buds "reset" in a short while.

So I propose that sitting overnight is pointless as far as taste development.

rotuts · 2025-10-22T13:32:14Z

Its very difficult to accurately , in a scientific sense , if not impossible , to measure flavor.

its subjective . its also temperature dependent .

and overnight ' rest ' is simply a ... simple unit of time.

Vivian Howard made an interesting point in her second show. She was making a casserole .

One of the major units in the casserole was ground beef w alf dozen ground apices mixed in.

she noted that after throughly mixing the burger , then cooking , you could taste the individual spice components.

after letting the mixture rest overnight ( refrigerated of course ) then cooking , you tasted

' one ' flavor . its an interesting point .

She's as pretty insightful and honest chef. Id say she tried both , and came to that conclusion .

on the other hand , if you are braising for 3 hours , at a temp well above room temp , your flavors are probably

evenly distributed . equilibrium is reached faster at higher temps.

my feeling is that resting results in , at least , water soluble flavors , possibly also fat soluble ones

moving back into meat , as the fibers relax at cooler temps . they probably also move back into

say a cooked carrot , as the cellulose has degraded . but probably in vegetable terms , not that far.

Edited 6 hours ago by rotuts (log)

Rickbern · 2025-10-22T13:56:44Z

1 hour ago, Duvel said:

It does not. Beside the marginal effect of evaporation, the pot and its content is in equilibrium with the oven environment. No build up. It will not magically heat up above the boiling point of water. The volume above the liquid may have a different temperature, as the saturation of steam will depend on how much you let escape. But that’s not your point. The chart given by Kenji is worthless without the external temperature.

It’s all about the rate of evaporation.

I dont think a braise at the boiling point of water would be very succesful. Thats much too hot. Thats the 20 f difference he’s talking about

Edited 6 hours ago by Rickbern (log)

Duvel · 2025-10-22T17:50:08Z

3 hours ago, Rickbern said:

I dont think a braise at the boiling point of water would be very succesful. Thats much too hot. Thats the 20 f difference he’s talking about

Yeah …

How do you explain the surprisingly successful pressure cooker stews ?!

rotuts · 2025-10-22T17:54:50Z

I personally think for a P.C. stew to be edible , the meat itself has to be reasonably fatty , if not more so .

for very lean meat , top // bottom round , or grass fed , there better be many tasty add-ins for that sort of

meat to make a tasty PC. stew .

or , you might have to be famished , which would work .

Sign In

Beef Short Ribs -- The Topic

Recommended Posts

Similar Content

Recently Browsing 0 members