Dutch Ovens

[Linda Rose]

http://www.zappos.com/cuisinart-multiclad-pro-triple-ply-6-qt-stockpot-brushed-stainless?channel=126&mr:referralID=NA&mr:trackingCode=5FAF1323-FBE4-DF11-8F9A-001B2163195C

I've got a couple of these Cuisinart Multi-clad pans. They are just like the Allclads...stainless sandwiched around an aluminum core. Nice cooking and you're not paying the name brand premium.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I also agree with Dave the Cook. Lots of people are doing exactly what you describe in enameled cast iron, so it sounds like it may be more a question of technique than equipment. Part of the attraction of enamel is that it's sticky and makes a good fond. If you're not getting a crisp enough sear, it could be that you don't have enough fat in the pan (you can pour off the excess later, if you don't want the fat in the finished dish), you're not letting it sear long enough, or it isn't hot enough.

Personally, I use either a Le Creuset dutch oven or a heavy, tin-lined copper rondeau for braising usually, but which I choose is usually a question of how much I'm making, since the rondeau is larger. The copper gives nice even heat for stovetop braising, but in the oven it doesn't really matter. The Le Creuset has a heavier, tighter fitting cover, which is an attraction.

Edited December 18, 2011 by David A. Goldfarb (log)

[JAZ]

Having used a wide variety of cookware for braising, I have found that enameled cast iron can achieve both fond and good browning; as several have mentioned above, it just takes more time for the cast iron to heat up. That being said, I'm generally not that concerned with a crisp crust when braising because it doesn't stand up to the long cooking in liquid anyway.

The one nice thing about searing in a skillet and then transferring to a dutch oven is that, as Dave said, the high sides of a traditional dutch oven can make it difficult to turn your protein. It also tends to keep any steam in the pan rather than let it dissipate, which inhibits browning. LC does make what they call a "buffet casserole" or "braising casserole" which is much more shallow than the usual dutch oven shape. When I braise in LC, that's what I use.

[ChrisZ]

We were given a lot of Scanpan stuff for our wedding, and I've grown to really like it. I would happily swap any of it for La Crueset, but if wasn't looking for enamel I'd happily buy more Scanpan.

The odd thing with Scanpan (in Australia, anyway) is that you can always find it heavily, heavily discounted. I don't know if their margins are artificially high or whether their RRP are drawn from a hat, but it's easy to find their products at about 1/3 of the 'suggested rrp' and they're always featured in brochures and tv ads. I would never pay full price.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

re need for tight lids, for most long, low temperature oven braising, I brown well on stove-top, add appropriate liquid, then cover with a paper lid, no metal or glass lid. -> fork tender, unctuous meat, rich reduced jus. The companion lids of most of my pots sit on the shelf.

[patrickamory]

Thanks everyone. Feels like it will be a Lodge or I'll spring for the All-Clad.

(I'd really prefer an old well-seasoned Griswold to a Lodge, but they are currently going on eBay for as much as the All-Clads!)

[TdeV]

Somewhat recently I was investigating dehydrated food which led me to a cookbook for hikers and folk who camp near their cars. For the car campers, a dutch oven was used to make bread & stews with embers from a very slow fire. The dutch oven has a fancy lid which will support a handful of coals piled on top. Perhaps the whole thing was buried.

 

It sounded very interesting.

 

However, I no longer do any camping, so I'm not going to find out!

[Tropicalsenior]

5 minutes ago, TdeV said:

The dutch oven has a fancy lid which will support a handful of coals piled on top. Perhaps the whole thing was buried.

That's exactly what I was talking about. Depending on the length of time that it would cook, they either set it on top of the fire with coals on top or they did bury it.

[AlaMoi]

fwiw, the "Dutch oven" has a curious history.

-  a Brit adapted the Dutch method of sand casting to cast iron.  the moniker of "Dutch oven" stuck....

- early use in America adapted feet to the pot - if you find one with feet, it's a very early model - the purpose was to hold the pot slightly above the coals....

- Paul Revere is credited with the 'invention' of a ring on the lid, so it could also hold coals

 

 

[haresfur]

12 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

if you find one with feet, it's a very early model 

 

 

 

I don't think this is true at all. It is common to find ones with feet in camping stores. I have seen them in both the US and Australia.

 

btw, I was being flippant with my earlier comment as to if cooking in a Dutch oven was roasting or baking. I see people using them for both and for braising.

 

I was on a very cold geology field trip in uni where one of the other students rummaged in the supplied for a huge can of peaches and the pancake mix to bake up a Dutch oven cobbler over the coals of our fire. Yes, he was a boy scout. 

 

eta: I have also seen aluminium ones for people who want to travel light. Horse packing maybe.

Edited October 18, 2023 by haresfur
addition (log)

[liuzhou]

13 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

- early use in America adapted feet to the pot - if you find one with feet, it's a very early model - the purpose was to hold the pot slightly above the coals....

 

er, China had these centuries before America was colonised. As early as 1100 BCE.

 

Here's a picture of Budhha preparing lunch.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by liuzhou
added image (log)

[Tropicalsenior]

I was watching an expert on antique cookware and the evolution of what we call the Dutch oven was interesting. A lot of the early ones were made of or the same material that bells were made from, but bronze doesn't play well with a lot of food and can cause poisonous reactions. Cast iron didn't have these problems and was much cheaper to make. A lot of the earlier ones with legs had the legs welded on instead of being cast on the pot. He said that one good indication of age is wear on the front legs. They're usually shorter from being dragged in and out of the fire. The Dutch oven was a definitely an important part of Frontier living. For many families it was the only piece of equipment that they had so they had to use it to bake, roast, stew the food and wash the dishes.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Tropicalsenior (log)

[MaryIsobel]

1 hour ago, Tropicalsenior said:

I was watching an expert on antique cookware and the evolution of what we call the Dutch oven was interesting. A lot of the early ones were made of or the same material that bells were made from, but bronze doesn't play well with a lot of food and can cause poisonous reactions. Cast iron didn't have these problems and was much cheaper to make. A lot of the earlier ones with legs had the legs welded on instead of being cast on the pot. He said that one good indication of age is wear on the front legs. They're usually shorter from being dragged in and out of the fire. The Dutch oven was a definitely an important part of Frontier living. For many families it was the only piece of equipment that they had so they had to use it to bake, roast, stew the food and wash the dishes.

The wealth of knowledge on EGullet never fails to amaze me

[Tropicalsenior]

5 hours ago, MaryIsobel said:

The wealth of knowledge on EGullet never fails to amaze me

That's why I love it so much. Got a problem? Got a question? All you have to do is ask and within minutes someone is there with the answer. And it is someone with the knowledge and the personal experience to back up that answer, not just some robot spouting facts. It's like having your own personal Google.

[AlaMoi]

did the antiques guy explain anything more about "welding" the feet on?

in those days there was no electric arc or oxy-acetylene welding technology - and welding casting iron even today takes special skills and prep.

 

the smithy could "forge weld" - basically smashing two white hot pieces of iron together with a hammer . . .

the pieces deformed, then the smith would beat them back into shape.

which seems a difficult trick for a pot and a leg . . .

[AlaMoi]

"I don't think this is true at all. It is common to find ones with feet in camping stores. I have seen them in both the US and Australia."

 

oops, should have made clearer . . . finding an old / antique Dutch oven with feet . . .

[Tropicalsenior]

1 hour ago, AlaMoi said:

did the antiques guy explain anything more about "welding" the feet on?

He did mention something about it being the blacksmith that would weld them on. Seems to me it would have to be a very talented blacksmith. He had two examples of pots with welded feet. One was done quite well and the other one was quite clumpy.

For the Dutch ovens without feet, one common piece of equipment was the spider. They were trivets of various heights that could be set in the fire to raise the pot above the coals. But for many people this was an added luxury or for people that were cooking on open campfires and on the move, it was an extra piece of equipment to carry along. That's why the pots with the feet became popular.

[Tropicalsenior]

1 hour ago, AlaMoi said:

which seems a difficult trick for a pot and a leg

My father was not a blacksmith but he had a forge and he used to make all his own horseshoes and shoe all his horses. As a kid, I used to love to watch the town blacksmith and was always amazed at the things that he could make and the repairs that he could do.

My first husband was in iron worker and he taught me a little bit about acetylene welding. Not easy and not my favorite thing to do but it gave me an extra appreciation of the people that could do it. I never underestimate what a good blacksmith can do. Unfortunately it's a skill that is almost nonexistent today.

 

Sorry, I misspoke. What we were actually doing was arc welding. We spent one whole winter building a horse trailer. Never again touched a welding machine. Never wanted to.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Tropicalsenior (log)

[haresfur]

23 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

er, China had these centuries before America was colonised. As early as 1100 BCE.

 

Here's a picture of Budhha preparing lunch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This sent me down a rabbit hole wondering about the composition of early Chinese bronze, since I know that the first Greek bronze used arsenic instead of tin. Seems like it would not be optimal for cooking pots, although if I recall correctly the main problem was poisoning the metallurgists. 

 

Turns out that recent research suggests the two "ingredients" cited in texts were probably a mixture of copper and lead, and a mixture of copper, lead, and tin. So maybe not the best for cooking vessels, either.

[liuzhou]

The Zhuang ethnic minority, most of whom live here in Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, to give the full name, are famous for their bronze work, especially bronze drums and other musical instruments, which they have been making for at least 2,700 years. They did and still do make bronze wine flasks and cooking vessels, too. Some of the cooking vessels are 'Dutch ovens' in everything but name. The vessels are not used today for everyday cooking but are still used in some religious rituals and other festivals.

 

Guangxi Provincial Museum, in the capital, Nanning has numerous examples on display as does Liuzhou Museum five minutes from my home.  Here are a few pictures taken there.

 

 

 

 

Musical Instrument

 

Drum

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by liuzhou (log)