Stomaching Spicy Food

[mudbug]

Not everyone responds to those treatments.

Same goes for all treatments... (... understood ...)

;)

Anyway...

A major concern has been that hot peppers, and other spicy foods, may cause ulcers. This has been found to be an erroneous assumption as there is no higher incidence of stomach ulcers in areas, like Thailand, Brazil and Mexico, where the chilli forms part of the staple diet, than in areas where it does not. In an extreme study carried out at the Veterans' Administration Hospital in the USA, about an ounce of ground Jalape-o pepper was injected directly into the stomachs of volunteers. No subsequent test revealed any damage to their stomach linings.

From: The healing properties of chillies

[Mudpuppie]

Even though the conversation has veered somewhat, I want to weigh in on whether or not you can build up a tolerance to spicy food.

This answer, in my humble opinion, is almost a universal, scientifically justifiable yes.

We have neurological receptors specifically designed to react to capsaicin. (Not all of them are in the mouth or on the skin. There are some on the outer part of the heart.) Like other neurological stimuli, we can get to the point of feeling that sensation without considering it to be painful. My friend the neurologist could explain this, but I can't and won't attempt it. Working chefs talk about "asbestos hands"; it's pretty much the same thing.

So, I think that people who claim that they can't build up a tolerance either a) have some sort of neurological quirk, or b) are just afraid to try.

Here's an article about some of the research that's taken place: http://www.citybeat.com/2000-05-11/scitech.shtml

Oh, and incidentally, it's only mammals who have these receptors. Birds don't, which is why lots of birds love peppers that would floor most of us -- and why they steal them from my garden.

[jhlurie]

I don't think the conversation has veered, Mudpuppie. I think we are just distinguishing between capsicum tolerance and digestive accomodation. The fact that receptors for this may be all around the body is interesting, but hardly changes the fact that some people's problems ARE purely digestive in nature.

[jschyun]

I've developed a tolerance for heat that would have amazed me 10 years ago. But my problem was that it burned my mouth to an intolerable level. I never had stomach trouble, but then I usually eat other foods along with the spicy ones.

[AzRaeL]

avoid beer with your spicy food

[Pan]

Personally, I hardly ever drink beer. But why do you counsel against it? It's very common for people to drink beer with Thai or Indian food, for example.

[misgabi]

Further to the "ring of fire":

A good friend of ours, upon eating a really spicy or "hot" meal will announce "that warrents putting the toilet paper in the freezer darlin" to his wife. At that point you know you have cooked a really good curry (or thai stir fry).

........... something to aspire to I guess

[Random Alias]

I thought it was funny, and I don't even have the melody of that tune in my mind's ear.

http://www.johnnycash.com/songclips/ringoffire.mov

The song even has a Mexican horn section which would seem appropriate to the topic at hand.

[Maliaty]

Re the beer - you may end up intensifying the burning, rather than reducing it - the capsacin from memory dissolves further into the alcohol - and hence gets quicker into your bloodstream. Same principle (although different chemistry) to use of fat / oil in the dish. But, boy, does it taste good going down! I have once had chilli beer - and I vaguely recall a chilli tequila - vaguely.

cheers

maliaty

[Huevos del Toro]

which I guess others would call the "next day chili" sensation

No, we call it Ring of Fire.

And the medical folks call it jalaproctitis (Diehl and Bauer, N. Eng. J. Med. 299(20):1137-1138). But "Ring of Fire" is so much more descriptive!

Regardless, I'll continue to pay the piper for the privilege of enjoying spicy foods.

[Huevos del Toro]

I can't find the report in the archives but, a few years ago, one of the medical schools here (Baylor I think) did a study on hot pepper and tummies. They actually used volunteers, some with healthy stomachs and some with ulcer problems. They would feed the subjects pure capsaicin (the hot stuff), not in food,  and then take a look at the inside of the stomach with a fiber optic device. (ACK!) They didn't see any irritation of the stomach lining in either case and the subjects didn't report any discomfort.

You're right on fifi. I remember reading the same thing but I think it was from one of DeWitts books. Here is a University of Florida College of Health and Human Performance article which references the Baylor study. According to this article, ground jalapeno peppers were directly injected into the stomach but I thought I remembered reading where pure capsaicin was injected and then the stomach lining photographed. No ill effects were found.

Eureka! I found Dave DeWitts treatment of this subject. Click

edited to add: I finally found the first reference I can recall which approached this subject. It was in Dave DeWitt and Nancy Gerlach's book "The Whole Chile Pepper Book", a copy of which I bought when it was first published. I tried to link to a source of DeWitts books about chile's, but for some reason this link won't work properly so here it is in the long form:

http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/davebooks.htm#Chile Pepper Encyclopedia

Edited January 5, 2004 by Huevos del Toro (log)

[ExtraMSG]

One of my favorite Thai/Fusion restaurants in Oregon is called Ring of Fire:

http://www.ringoffirerestaurant.com/

btw, you want to guarantee the "ring of fire" just go low-carb like me and don't eat any rice with your curries. Just eat them like soup.

[Toliver]

I can personally attest to the fact that tolerance can be developed.

My brother is famous in our family for his spicy "Two Beer Shrimp", named so because it used to take two beers to cool off your mouth after you took your first bite. But today, its spiciness is rather mild to our "seasoned" palates. It amazes us that we once thought it so hot that you had to have a "crying" towel next to your plate. Times change and so do tastes, I guess.

As for the "second burn", Chile Pepper magazine once recommended Solarcaine sunburn spray to relieve the pain.

[ExtraMSG]

I think it's more like the line from Lawrence of Arabia: it's not that it doesn't burn, it's not minding that it burns.

[Lawrence has just extinguished a match between his thumb and forefinger. William Potter surreptitiously attempts the same.]

William Potter: Ooh! It damn well 'urts!

T.E. Lawrence: Certainly it hurts.

Officer: What's the trick then?

T.E. Lawrence: The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts.

[mb7o]

Hmm... methinks the study didn't have enough subjects, or the problem is different. A few people on this thread and people I know claim to have an adverse reaction, and I have had one myself in the past.

Let me tell my story. I am not discussing burning mouths, sweating, crying, or building tolerance to that, but rather the later digestive effects.

Several years ago, I was on a moderalty high dose of naproxen for a joint injury. Foolishly I ignored the 'always take with food' warning, since i'd never had a problem doing that. Well, at some point, mid-meal in fact, I found I could not eat spicy food. Not like burning in the mouth 'must stop', but rather my stomach informing my subconcious or something similar that, I must stop eating anything, other than water or tea. (The realization was sudden, though it had probably built up to that point over time.)

I went on a very mild diet for many months, and also drank a small glass of aloe juice once or twice a day. At some later point in time, I could eat spicy food again.

Clearly my case is different from my friends. I don't know if anything other than time had any effect on my healing, but it leads me to think that at least some of these issues are curable. And the testaments of the aloe people pique my interest, as they claim that it will help people who doctors otherwise write off.

[ExtraMSG]

I'm not sure when it began, but I used to have some serious GI problems. It may have started with a regular lunch I'd have in college when a friend and I went out to a taco shop. They made fresh salsa and chips and for $1.50 you could get a big bag of fresh tortilla chips and a pint of homemade salsa. They also had a salsa bar with nice taqueria style salsas, pickled spicy carrots, etc, jalapeno slices, and a thing of cheese. I would get the chips and salsa and then a plate and put a big pile of jalapeno slices and a big pile of cheese next to each other. Then I'd sit down and eat chip after chip first putting some cheese and then a couple jalapeno slices on each chip. I was probably eating 20 or more jalapenos each time I did this and my friend and I would eat there a few times a week.

I first noticed I was becoming lactose intolerant. Then I noticed that orange juice and oranges would cause serious laxative effects in me. I also started getting serious acid reflux in the middle of the night, so bad that I once had to drive to a 7-Eleven so I could buy some pepto to try to ease the burning because water, milk, or anything else did nothing. (Simpsons line: These goggles do nothing.) Anything spicy or acidy started to just run right through me or cause acid reflux.

I was also drinking about a six pack of soda per day (Diet Mt. Dew was my computer programmer nectar of choice). It was getting really bad.

I had these problems increasingly over a couple year stretch when I decided to lose weight finally. One of the first things I did was decide to drink only water. I pretty much still do that. It made an instant improvement in my GI issues. I stopped getting acid reflux and spicy foods wouldn't instantly cause me to run to the toilet. I could eat oranges again. And milk products only had a lessened effect on me (and after eating a lot of yogurt on my diet, milk products now only have a mild effect on me).

For anyone who has GI issues I would highly recommend trying to drink only water for a month or so and see if there's any change. Most everything else that we drink can have a negative effect -- juice, soda, beer, coffee, milk. That's just my anecdotal recommendation from a guy who lost 100 lbs and is happy he can eat hot Thai food again.

[Callipygos]

Not only have I never experienced latter-stage digestive troubles from spicy food, I didn't even know that such, er, "exiting effects" were even in existance.

The biggest problem I've had with spicy food has been more a matter of taste -- I enjoy the heat, but if something is TOO hot, it just becomes overwhelming if I have too much. There have been many times when the first few bites of something very spicy are wonderful -- but by the tenth, the heat element has just become too much for me to the point where it overpowers all other flavor and I just can't go on. The upside of this is, this once let me stretch a single order of laab moo salad from a Thai place in my neighborhood for a week and a half (I'd take it out, have three bites -- the first was bliss, the second, "lemme steel myself for this," and the third, "okay, I give, this goes back in the fridge.")

I DID once have a bad encounter with something calling itself a "taco kebab" at a fast food place in Ireland, but that was more due to e. coli than any spice element, I think.

[jhlurie]

Not only have I never experienced latter-stage digestive troubles from spicy food, I didn't even know that such, er, "exiting effects" were even in existance.

See, people don't believe me when I say that.

My theory is two-fold. First of all, obviously some people are errr... more sensitive.

More importantly, I think for a lot of people the "exit" effects are a side-effect of a digestion problem. Whatever is remaining of the spicy food--the capsicum, the oil, whatever... is coming through more intact for them.

[BettyK]

Try some grass jelly drink after indulging in spicy food. The colour is not the most appetizing, tastes like medicine but it sure relieves the pain. Good for hemorrhoids too . Check any Asian grocery stores.

[QuinaQuen]

which I guess others would call the "next day chili" sensation

No, we call it Ring of Fire.

There is a genuine scientific term for the day after; Jaloproctitis.

And it's the only thing that wakes me up in the morning anymore. Two endorphin rushes for price of one; how can you go wrong?

[QuinaQuen]

I'm not sure when it began, but I used to have some serious GI problems. It may have started with a regular lunch I'd have in college when a friend and I went out to a taco shop. They made fresh salsa and chips and for $1.50 you could get a big bag of fresh tortilla chips and a pint of homemade salsa. They also had a salsa bar with nice taqueria style salsas, pickled spicy carrots, etc, jalapeno slices, and a thing of cheese. I would get the chips and salsa and then a plate and put a big pile of jalapeno slices and a big pile of cheese next to each other. Then I'd sit down and eat chip after chip first putting some cheese and then a couple jalapeno slices on each chip. I was probably eating 20 or more jalapenos each time I did this and my friend and I would eat there a few times a week.

I first noticed I was becoming lactose intolerant. Then I noticed that orange juice and oranges would cause serious laxative effects in me. I also started getting serious acid reflux in the middle of the night, so bad that I once had to drive to a 7-Eleven so I could buy some pepto to try to ease the burning because water, milk, or anything else did nothing. (Simpsons line: These goggles do nothing.) Anything spicy or acidy started to just run right through me or cause acid reflux.

I was also drinking about a six pack of soda per day (Diet Mt. Dew was my computer programmer nectar of choice). It was getting really bad.

I had these problems increasingly over a couple year stretch when I decided to lose weight finally. One of the first things I did was decide to drink only water. I pretty much still do that. It made an instant improvement in my GI issues. I stopped getting acid reflux and spicy foods wouldn't instantly cause me to run to the toilet. I could eat oranges again. And milk products only had a lessened effect on me (and after eating a lot of yogurt on my diet, milk products now only have a mild effect on me).

For anyone who has GI issues I would highly recommend trying to drink only water for a month or so and see if there's any change. Most everything else that we drink can have a negative effect -- juice, soda, beer, coffee, milk. That's just my anecdotal recommendation from a guy who lost 100 lbs and is happy he can eat hot Thai food again.

That really is the lactose getting to you. If anything, the capsaicin is your Good Witch of the North on these unfortunate viajes. Without healthy stimulation, your GI tract would probably still be suffering. It's the only thing that leads me out of the scary forest whenever I eat chicken products.

[mnebergall]

which I guess others would call the "next day chili" sensation

No, we call it Ring of Fire.

Where I come from, we call it "fire in the hole."

[Toliver]

which I guess others would call the "next day chili" sensation

No, we call it Ring of Fire.

Where I come from, we call it "fire in the hole."

Funny you should mention "Fire in the Hole" and "Ring of Fire"...I believe both are the names of hot sauces on the market!

[mnebergall]

which I guess others would call the "next day chili" sensation

No, we call it Ring of Fire.

Where I come from, we call it "fire in the hole."

Funny you should mention "Fire in the Hole" and "Ring of Fire"...I believe both are the names of hot sauces on the market!

Both "preparations" likely well suited to produce the described effect.

[mnebergall]

which I guess others would call the "next day chili" sensation

No, we call it Ring of Fire.

Where I come from, we call it "fire in the hole."

Funny you should mention "Fire in the Hole" and "Ring of Fire"...I believe both are the names of hot sauces on the market!

Both "preparations" likely well suited to produce the described effect.