Achieving the Flavor of Ladyfinger Cookies

[Jim D.]

In my version of tiramisu bonbons, I include a ladyfinger/savoiardi layer.  I create this by making ladyfingers (from scratch), then grinding them and mixing the crumbs with chocolate, cocoa butter, etc., to make a cookie layer that can be piped.  I tried bought ladyfingers (including the top-rated one on Amazon), but they had no (acceptable) taste.  My customers like the tiramisu bonbon, but making the ladyfingers is a pain I would like to avoid.  I think the taste that says "ladyfinger" to the palate is basically cooked eggs, so I have wondered if it is possible to achieve the taste without the hassle of beating egg yolks and whites separately, folding, etc.  Do you think I would get the same taste if I just beat whole eggs, then add the other ingredients (sugar, flour, vanilla), then spread the mixture on a cookie sheet and bake.  I need to achieve a crisp, cookie texture that will grind easily and will last in storage--really a sugar cookie with eggs.  Any ideas would be appreciated.

[curls]

Have you tried Maria cookies? They might have the taste & texture you are looking for.

https://shop.goya.com/products/goya-maria-cookies?srsltid=AfmBOoodb0ADgeQ5hsGLgjd9sj30gbM5GvtwxjOmWUYKMCfk_UMj28FH

 

[Kerry Beal]

My recipe grinds up Simple Pleasures Social Tea biscuits - soaks them in the mold with some espresso powder/marsala/mocca compound 

[pastrygirl]

5 hours ago, Jim D. said:

Do you think I would get the same taste if I just beat whole eggs, then add the other ingredients (sugar, flour, vanilla), then spread the mixture on a cookie sheet and bake. 

 

I think it's worth a try.  Whole eggs will whip up and double or more in volume, but won't be quite as stiff/stable as egg whites alone.

 

Another thought is to try to add flavor to purchased ladyfingers.  Brush with a little vanilla simple syrup then bake to dry out before grinding?

[teonzo]

You can use a genoise / sponge cake recipe: whip warm whole eggs with sugar, then fold flour in it and bake, let it cool then dehidrate and grind. If you want it "eggy" then you can use a balance that is low on flour (say around 20g flour for each egg). Lots of pastry shops here make their tiramisu using genoise instead of savoiardi and nobody ever complained.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[TdeV]

@teonzo !! Hello !!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

@teonzo welcome back!  I've made (once) lady fingers from genoise for a trifle but I didn't think the effort was worth the trouble.  For another trifle I used store bought ladyfingers imported from Italy but those lady fingers had a somewhat crisp texture and not the same flavor as I associate with ladyfingers here in New Jersey.

 

As I understand the goal is to reproduce the flavor of ladyfingers and not necessarily ladyfingers themselves.  I wonder if one of the flavor companies offers such a product?

 

[Jim D.]

20 hours ago, teonzo said:

You can use a genoise / sponge cake recipe: whip warm whole eggs with sugar, then fold flour in it and bake, let it cool then dehidrate and grind. If you want it "eggy" then you can use a balance that is low on flour (say around 20g flour for each egg). Lots of pastry shops here make their tiramisu using genoise instead of savoiardi and nobody ever complained.

 

 

 

Teo

 

 

Thanks for the useful suggestion.  And good to hear from you again on eG.

[Jim D.]

20 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

For another trifle I used store bought ladyfingers imported from Italy but those lady fingers had a somewhat crisp texture and not the same flavor as I associate with ladyfingers here in New Jersey.

 

As I understand the goal is to reproduce the flavor of ladyfingers and not necessarily ladyfingers themselves.  I wonder if one of the flavor companies offers such a product?

 

 

Crisp ladyfingers are what I am looking for (savoiardi).  To make a cookie layer for a bonbon, I dry out the ladyfingers in the oven, then grind them in a food processor.  The crumbs are then mixed with chocolate (I use caramel white) and extra cocoa butter (plus optionally clarified butter) and piped on top of other fillings in a mold.  The mixture firms up, providing a nice crunch to contrast with softer fillings beneath it.  I tried what was rated the top ladyfingers on Amazon, and they had no discernible taste except staleness.  A liquid flavoring would not work as the crisp cookie layer cannot have any liquid (a tiramisu flavoring does exist).  And I do realize that the ladyfingers in a tiramisu are not crisp, but I think the soft ones soaked in liqueur might contribute to the free water content and thus reduce the shelf life of the bonbon.

[JeanneCake]

is a commercially available compound not an option?  Amoretti makes a tiramisu, and MEC3 also makes on (I think that one is for gelato) but I don't know what that would do to your water content

[Jim D.]

11 hours ago, JeanneCake said:

is a commercially available compound not an option?  Amoretti makes a tiramisu, and MEC3 also makes on (I think that one is for gelato) but I don't know what that would do to your water content

 

The Amoretti tiramisu is water-based (they do have an oil-based one, but it also has cappuccino flavoring, which is not what I am looking for), so might present problems, depending on how much is used.  I have tried an Amoretti custard flavoring for another purpose, and it was not satisfactory.  What I am looking for is that wonderful eggy taste of sponge cake, specifically cooked eggs and sugar.  When I grind the ladyfingers and make the crispy layer from them, that taste does come through, even when paired with the coffee mascarpone ganache also in the bonbon.

[Merry Berry]

I often utilize a Stella Parks recipe for ladyfingers which uses whole eggs.  Whole eggs and sugar/salt are whisked to 165°F in a pate a bombe mixture in a double boiler (I use my mixing bowl as the top bowl since you will be moving it to the mixer next).  Take to mixer, put on your whisk and whip until tripled or so in size (I think her recipe calls for quadruple, but I am not sure it ever gets that much).  Fold in zest (if using), flour, and cornstarch mixture.  You can search for her recipe or I can post it here.

 

I have to assume you could spread on a silpat and bake like a cake instead of piping out the individual fingers.  Even if you pipe them out, they puff up normal like a the old school separated eggs version.  I make a lot of tiramisu for clients so I make it a lot.  It's very easy and quick. 

 

If you do not mind, what are you doing for your mascarpone layer?  I was wanting to do a bonbon and was trying to decide what to use.  I thought about a mascarpone type of whipped cream stabilized with a little cream cheese?  But worried about that shelf life.  I saw a few years ago you tried the cheesecake mixture, but were unhappy with it.  I think maybe that could still work if tinkered with.  And get Madeira or Marsala in it to help with flavor and maybe the water activity?

[Jim D.]

8 hours ago, Merry Berry said:

I often utilize a Stella Parks recipe for ladyfingers which uses whole eggs.  Whole eggs and sugar/salt are whisked to 165°F in a pate a bombe mixture in a double boiler (I use my mixing bowl as the top bowl since you will be moving it to the mixer next).  Take to mixer, put on your whisk and whip until tripled or so in size (I think her recipe calls for quadruple, but I am not sure it ever gets that much).  Fold in zest (if using), flour, and cornstarch mixture.  You can search for her recipe or I can post it here.

 

I have to assume you could spread on a silpat and bake like a cake instead of piping out the individual fingers.  Even if you pipe them out, they puff up normal like a the old school separated eggs version.  I make a lot of tiramisu for clients so I make it a lot.  It's very easy and quick. 

 

If you do not mind, what are you doing for your mascarpone layer?  I was wanting to do a bonbon and was trying to decide what to use.  I thought about a mascarpone type of whipped cream stabilized with a little cream cheese?  But worried about that shelf life.  I saw a few years ago you tried the cheesecake mixture, but were unhappy with it.  I think maybe that could still work if tinkered with.  And get Madeira or Marsala in it to help with flavor and maybe the water activity?

 

Thanks for your suggestion about the ladyfingers.  I more or less settled on a method that is like yours, but with less work.  I use whole eggs and beat the mixture, but not over heat (it doesn't rise much).  Then I spread it on Silpats and bake it until it begins to brown, and then grind it into powder.  It is the taste I want, so the rise is not important.  I could not tell the difference in taste between this version and the traditional method.

 

My recipe for tiramisu bonbons is one I developed based on the ideas of others (and my own experience of tasting tiramisu).  I first tried Kalle Jungstedt's recipe, but tiramisu must be different in Sweden because it had an almond flavor.  So I use a typical coffee ganache, with cream (steeping coffee beans in it beforehand) and a mixture of extra-dark chocolate, white chocolate. and a little extra cocoa butter.  To that I add mascarpone and Kahlua.  This combination gives a noticeable coffee flavor, but it's diluted enough (with white chocolate and cocoa butter) so that the coffee doesn't totally dominate and the mascarpone and ladyfinger flavors show up.  I pipe this ganache into a mold, filling the cavities about 2/3.  Later I mix the ground "ladyfingers" with caramelized white chocolate, cocoa butter, and sea salt and pipe that on top of the coffee ganache.  I haven't tried Madeira or marsala; I don't think I would want to add additional flavors, but it is an idea worth pursuing.  The aW reading of my ganache is 0.83.  According to Melissa Coppel, that translates to 3-6 weeks.  First, I think a span of 3-6 weeks isn't a terribly useful guide.  Second, 0.83 is higher than I like to go.  I think that if I replace some of the glucose added to the ganache with sorbitol, I could lower the water content, but haven't had time to try that yet.