Which Bread Machine Do You Use Or Recommend

[palo]

I have a Breville Virtuoso and a Zojirushi - both were highly rated at the time and both do good loaves - but times change - what's your take?

 

p

[AlaMoi]

none.  had several - purchased and/or gift.  tossed them all

 

get a stand mixer and make the bread. 

far far superior to cocked up mangled recipes that are supposed to work in an automatic bread machine.

 

the idea is really neat.  dump some stuff in, push the button, come back to 'fresh bread' when it beeps.

reality is seriously less good.

 

get a scale, weigh the flour/water.   add yeast/salt - stand back and let the magic happen.

let the mixer do the hard labor.

once one decides 'it's worth it' the variety and types of breads is virtually unlimited.

[TdeV]

I have had a Zojirushi BB-PAC20 Virtuoso since 2012. My troubles*: for some reason I can no longer change the internal clock (Daylight Savings) which sometimes has unexpected results when I forget. Also, I have never been able to remove the paddles, although I did manage to move one side – so I get misshapen loaves (one side rises slightly higher).

 

On King Arthur's advice (my hands are arthritic), I do everything in that machine: bread, foccacia, pizza dough, pasta dough. If I'm not sure how to translate a recipe, King Arthur's help line will advise me.

 

This is my third bread machine. It is superior to my prior experience because: it has 2 paddles so it mixes evenly; the loaf is a more conventional shape, thus fitting better into a bread storage box. The machine is durable and reliable. Of course, I know more now than I did then, so the inner non-stick coating is intact, and I have not ground the gears to smithereens.

 

 

* Zojirushi's only remedy is for me to ship them back the machine for them to see if they can figure out these issues. King Arthur could sell me new paddles, but I don't know how to get them out of the machine. King Arthur currently sells BB-PDC 20 machine which looks pretty similar.

 

 

[TdeV]

5 minutes ago, AlaMoi said:

once one decides 'it's worth it' the variety and types of breads is virtually unlimited.

 

Perfectly possible with a bread machine, of course. 😀

 

[lindag]

38 minutes ago, TdeV said:

I have had a Zojirushi BB-PAC20 Virtuoso since 2012. My troubles*: for some reason I can no longer change the internal clock (Daylight Savings) which sometimes has unexpected results when I forget. Also, I have never been able to remove the paddles, although I did manage to move one side – so I get misshapen loaves (one side rises slightly higher).

 

On King Arthur's advice (my hands are arthritic), I do everything in that machine: bread, foccacia, pizza dough, pasta dough. If I'm not sure how to translate a recipe, King Arthur's help line will advise me.

 

This is my third bread machine. It is superior to my prior experience because: it has 2 paddles so it mixes evenly; the loaf is a more conventional shape, thus fitting better into a bread storage box. The machine is durable and reliable. Of course, I know more now than I did then, so the inner non-stick coating is intact, and I have not ground the gears to smithereens.

 

 

* Zojirushi's only remedy is for me to ship them back the machine for them to see if they can figure out these issues. King Arthur could sell me new paddles, but I don't know how to get them out of the machine. King Arthur currently sells BB-PDC 20 machine which looks pretty similar.

 

 

I'm so sorry for your troubles with your Zo.  I have a similar model, not the Virtuoso.  You should be able to stick a small knife (such as a butter knife if one has such a thing any longer, under the paddles to remove.  You might try soaking them in hot water first.

My machine does not have a clock and you probably could get by without one.  

I love my Zo and wouldn't want to part with it.  Like  you, I use it for everything.  

Good Luck.

 

[TdeV]

Actually, @lindag, my Zo model lets me select the finished time for the bread (why the clock is useful) —

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by TdeV
Grammar (log)

[rotuts]

Ive had two bead machines .  the first from a long time ago

 

and the second still some time ago.

 

if you measure carefully , and use good quality ingredients , 

 

you get fresh bread that's very good , by pushing a button.

 

both machines were pretty much the cheapest available. .  

 

the first s Rival , the second a sunbeam .  but the names had very little to do with

 

the innards , they were simply some add ones from braobably the same Chinese factory .

 

I learned several things :   measuring ingredients carefully was very important.

 

and two other things :    if you scratch the inexpensive lining of the container 

 

your bread would stick to the container .

 

and you had to carefully clean the inner rotor paddle where it connected w the rotor.

 

and also clean the rotor  

 

the issue for me was the bread sticking in the container when done , eventually

 

not  the quality of the resulting bread .

 

and the idea of any machine is to get the resulting bread 

 

easily .

 

so , what ever current machine you end up with 

 

keep in mind potential  issues w the rotor system sticking, and the non-stick qualities of the container .

 

its much much nicer to have Machine Bread , than commercial store bought bread 

 

at least as a starting point .

 

I got tired of keeping the rotor and container in tip top shape .

 

that's all. so gave up

 

after several years of bread baking in that manner.

Edited October 25, 2023 by rotuts (log)

[ElsieD]

I have the same model as @TdeV, the Zojirushi BB-PAC20.  I have had it for probably 10 or so years.  I use it a fair bit, mostly to mix and knead the dough which, when the dough cycle is complete, i will bake in a regular oven.  If i want bread for stuffing say a chicken, i'll bake the loaf in the machine.  That said, i will also make bread by hand.  It depends on the mood I'm in.

 

My first bread  machine was a Panasonic which I bought in 1982.   It was one of the first mass produced bread machines for home bread making.  That one could only make 1 pound loaves but I loved that machine.

 

@TdeV Did you ever try making the sourdough?

[TdeV]

Not yet, @ElsieD.

 

@Tropicalsenior offered to give me consultation but I haven't summoned the courage quite yet. 🙄

 

My first bread machine was a Panasonic also. I wore off the non-stick coating by making fruit + nut bread in the middle of the night, to be ready for the swim team After Swim coffee. The "bread" brick would end up about 2" thick. I didn't understand bread very well and kept adding more yeast + more mix-ins. Fortunately, early morning swimmers will eat anything!

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by TdeV
Hmmm (log)

[palo]

I should have added my Zo is the Zojirushi BB-HAC10

 

p

[TdeV]

@palo, this was my query https://duckduckgo.com/?q=compare+Zojirushi-Bb-Hac10+with+Zojirushi+bb-pac20&t=newext&atb=v376-1&ia=web

 

One result from BreadmakerGuides

 

The biggest difference is the size of the bread loaf (and the amount of dough) that these Zojirushi bread machines can prepare and complete. The BB-HAC10 can only make 1 pound loaves. The BB-PAC20 can make 1.5-lb and 2-lb loaves, but it cannot make a 1-lb loaf size. Your choice between the two depends on the loaf sizes you prefer and the number of people you need to feed.

Another difference that might be important is the gluten-free course of the BB-PAC20 Home Bakery Virtuoso. The BB-HAC10 mini bread maker does not have a gluten-free course and its manual has only one gluten-free recipe for brown rice bread. The BB-PAC20 is a much better choice for baking gluten-free bread.

Bread machine bakers who dislike the rest step of Zojirushi bread machines, take note: the rest cycle of the BB-HAC10 mini bread machine cannot be cancelled. However, the rest cycle of the BB-PAC20 Home Bakery Virtuoso can be turned off by pressing and holding both the time up and time down buttons for longer than three seconds (until the display shows “REST OFF”). This is a small point, but it might be useful information to someone.

BB-HAC10: Advantages

• It mixes and kneads dough for bread, pizza, cookies and pasta.
• Delay timer can be used to make fresh bread for breakfast.
• Small 1 pound bread loaf size makes it suitable for one person or a couple.
• Its compact design takes up less counter space than other bread machines.

BB-HAC10: Disadvantages

• Loaf size is too small to be practical for a large family.
• The LCD is not backlit and might sometimes be difficult to read.
• It does not have an automatic dispenser for adding additional ingredients.
• The rest cycle, which warms the ingredients before mixing, cannot be cancelled.
• Individual knead, rise and bake cycle times cannot be reprogrammed according to personal preference.
• Kneading blade does not collapse, leaves a small hole in the bread loaf.

[palo]

Another EDIT! of my original post 

 

My bread machines are BOTH Zojirushis - the one I miss identified as a Breville was in fact the Home Bakery Virtuoso® Breadmaker BB-PAC20

 

Next time I'll put a little more thought into my words 😒

 

p

[TdeV]

Why are you unhappy with your bread machines, @palo?

 

Or, why did you ask the question about improvements?

 

[palo]

@TdeV

Both machines work well - I use the smaller one (1 lb loaf) when I don't foresee the need for much bread - the larger one (2 lb loaf) does when I expect a lot of sandwiches

 

I asked if someone had found one that was an unexpected improvement on either of those machines - they both have drawbacks (hard to read LCD panel on both) but both are very servable 

 

p

[chromedome]

Like a couple of others here, I have a similar 2-pound Zojirushi. I also have one of the big 6-quart high-power KitchenAids with the good spiral dough hook, and use them both regularly. I very seldom bake in my Zo, though, like Elsie D I just use the dough cycle and then transfer it to conventional pans for oven-baking. It's "no fuss, no muss," I load the machine, walk away for 1 hour and 50 minutes, and then come back.

 

I use the KitchenAid for a couple of specific recipes that are too big for the Zo, like the oatmeal raisin brown bread my GF is currently obsessed with. I've found that it's a really fine line with the stand mixer, because I've had to cut down other recipes to make them work. KitchenAid claims you can make bread recipes calling for up to 14 cups of flour, but I've found this to be unreliable. Once I get beyond 8 cups it's really hit or miss, depending on the texture of the dough, and it often still climbs the dough hook and gets wrapped around the head unit.

 

Given that your problem with the big Zo is the death of its time clock, I presume you use timed baking a lot, which of course you won't get with a stand mixer. The current version of the Virtuoso appears to have a slightly brighter display, but it's still the same old-school LED. The thing is, despite the age of the base design, it's still by broad consensus the best bread machine out there. I've looked at a lot of comparative reviews lately for an article I was writing, and nothing's as consistently good across the board.

 

Breville's Custom Loaf has a bigger, more informative backlit display, and is broadly comparable to the Zo, but by all accounts is noisier and its gimmicky folding paddle (it gets out of the way when you bake) is prone to failure. The lower-priced KBS Pro has a backlit display that's decent, and the nonstick surface on the pan is ceramic rather than teflon for durability, but it's a single-paddle design so the bread pan isn't as long and "conventional"-looking if you bake in the machine. Like your Virtuoso it has two heating elements, though they wrap around the bread pan rather than the Zo's top-and-bottom orientation. Said to be very good for sandwich-style breads (some reviewers say it's better than the Zo for those) but struggles with dense or slack doughs.

 

Make of all this what you will. A big stand mixer will certainly do any kind of bread you want (in moderate-sized batches), but you lose the convenience. Other machines exist with somewhat better displays, but there are tradeoffs that limit their usefulness. It's all going to come down to what you prioritize.

[Maison Rustique]

I have a Breadman Ultimate that I've had for probably 30 years. It looks similar to  he Zojirushi posted here, but am sure there are major differences in the works since it is so old. I do occasionally bake in it, but mainly use it for the mixing and kneading and rising until time to shape. I have a Kitchen Aid mixer but have not used it for kneading. I should give it a try sometime.

[lindag]

1 minute ago, Maison Rustique said:

I have a Breadman Ultimate that I've had for probably 30 years. It looks similar to  he Zojirushi posted here, but am sure there are major differences in the works since it is so old. I do occasionally bake in it, but mainly use it for the mixing and kneading and rising until time to shape. I have a Kitchen Aid mixer but have not used it for kneading. I should give it a try sometime.

I have that mixer too but I find the bread machine is easier to use and cleanup is a breeze.

[lindag]

17 hours ago, TdeV said:

I have never been able to remove the paddles, although I did manage to move one side – so I get misshapen loaves (one side rises slightly higher).

 

 

You might try to get those paddles out using a pair of pliers, wrapping the jaws with tape first so as to protect the coating.

[Akbar Chef]

Zojirushi's Virtuoso Plus.

[TdeV]

6 hours ago, chromedome said:

Given that your problem with the big Zo is the death of its time clock

 

There's a battery in the machine which maintains the time when the machine is turned off. The mechanism to change from Regular Time to Daylight Savings time no longer works (key sequence when power on occurs). But the timer mechanism of the bread machine works fine. What this means is the clock will be one hour off during the winter.

 

 

4 hours ago, lindag said:

You might try to get those paddles out using a pair of pliers, wrapping the jaws with tape first so as to protect the coating.

 

I've tried gently-applied pliers and soaking in hot water without useful result. I have NEVER been able to get the paddles off.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by TdeV
Grammar (log)

[lindag]

2 hours ago, TdeV said:

 

 

 

 

I've tried gently-applied pliers and soaking in hot water without useful result. I have NEVER been able to get the paddles off.

 

 

Maybe WD-40?

Or do you know a handyman who could help?

Edited October 26, 2023 by lindag (log)

[TdeV]

Those paddles are coated with non-stick, @lindag. Pliers would not help them. WD-40 is not edible.

[dtremit]

On 10/25/2023 at 9:31 PM, palo said:

I asked if someone had found one that was an unexpected improvement on either of those machines - they both have drawbacks (hard to read LCD panel on both) but both are very servable

 

I don't get the sense that there's been much innovation in bread machines of late, particularly if your goal is making loaves out of normal wheat. The machines are more popular in Japan, and I think there are some newer models there, but mostly they seem to offer additional cycles for rice-based bread.

[ElsieD]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:20 PM, TdeV said:

Those paddles are coated with non-stick, @lindag. Pliers would not help them. WD-40 is not edible.

Did you ever get your paddles to release?

[TdeV]

34 minutes ago, ElsieD said:

Did you ever get your paddles to release?

 

No, but I haven't tried. I just make bread with paddles in it. 😝