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Are your bay leaves really bay leaves?

liuzhou

By liuzhou
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liuzhou

liuzhou

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The  term “bay leaf” originally referred to foliage from the bay laurel tree. Bay laurel's distinctive herbal flavor, bitter and slightly piney, has been used as a seasoning for millennia. But the name has become shorthand for several other leafy spices from different trees. 

 

What is a bay leaf?

 

Interesting Gastro Obscura article.

 

...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

heidih

heidih

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Posted
34 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

What is a bay leaf?

 

Interesting Gastro Obscura article.

 

The common form sold around here in the spice aisle is the Bay Laurel. Garden centers sell the California one - nice shrub and I've cooked with the fresh leaves. I don't regularly use either type so flavor descriptions escape me now. I've not seen or sought out the other types. I think @blue_dolphin may have a California Bay? She is good at flavor descriptions.

blue_dolphin

blue_dolphin

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Posted

Wow, I had no idea there were so many kinds.  I'd love to try the Indian, Mexican and Indonesian varieties! 

I don't have any bay trees, though I'd like to get a bay laurel.  

heidih

heidih

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

Wow, I had no idea there were so many kinds.  I'd love to try the Indian, Mexican and Indonesian varieties! 

I don't have any bay trees, though I'd like to get a bay laurel.  

I wonder if those clear spice packets sold in the Mexican section of grocery are labeled with type. I looked on-line at the El Guapo ones and it just says Mexican Bay Laurel. 

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liuzhou

liuzhou

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I grew a bay laurel in London years ago. It may stil be there but it's almost 30 years since I left. If I can grow one, anyone can. Whatever colour of the colour wheel is opposite green, that's how fingered I am.

 

I notice the article says the word bay has a long, interesting history but never expains what it is. Typical.

 

It comes from the Latin bāca meaning berry. It originally referred to all berries but later mostly to those of the laurel tree. That was picked up and adopted by the Provencal language as baga but was transferred from the berry to the whole tree. Old French picked that up as baie or baye. English took it from the French.

 

I knew you wouldn't sleep tonight worrying about that!

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...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

KennethT

KennethT

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, blue_dolphin said:

Wow, I had no idea there were so many kinds.  I'd love to try the Indian, Mexican and Indonesian varieties! 

I don't have any bay trees, though I'd like to get a bay laurel.  

I love daun salam (Indonesian bay leaf).  It's very different than the standard Bay leaf.  I can get the dried leaves pretty easily but fresh or frozen ones are impossible which is a shame because fresh and dried are quite a bit different.  I've never seen the dried leaves used in Indonesia - always fresh but that's not surprising since it's tropical.

 

I've been wanting to grow a daun salam tree but the starts are impossible to find in the US.  Also, the seeds are more like a berry and must be planted fresh, so while seeds are available via Ebay and Etsy (shipped directly from Indonesia), I've heard that most of them are not viable and never sprout.  It's also currently illegal to bring in either seeds or starts without a phytosanitary cert, which is hard to come by - they're typically only done for expensive houseplants where it pays to go through the effort and expense of the cert.

 

I'll be back in Indonesia next summer - before then, I plan on writing to the US head of plant imports in Indonesia - maybe he can find  a place willing to get a cert for a plant start that I can bring home?

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lindag

lindag

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Posted
49 minutes ago, KennethT said:

I'll be back in Indonesia next summer - before then, I plan on writing to the US head of plant imports in Indonesia - maybe he can find  a place willing to get a cert for a plant start that I can bring home?

Now that's what I call commitment!

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haresfur

haresfur

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, KennethT said:

I love daun salam (Indonesian bay leaf).  It's very different than the standard Bay leaf.  I can get the dried leaves pretty easily but fresh or frozen ones are impossible which is a shame because fresh and dried are quite a bit different.  I've never seen the dried leaves used in Indonesia - always fresh but that's not surprising since it's tropical.

 

I've been wanting to grow a daun salam tree but the starts are impossible to find in the US.  Also, the seeds are more like a berry and must be planted fresh, so while seeds are available via Ebay and Etsy (shipped directly from Indonesia), I've heard that most of them are not viable and never sprout.  It's also currently illegal to bring in either seeds or starts without a phytosanitary cert, which is hard to come by - they're typically only done for expensive houseplants where it pays to go through the effort and expense of the cert.

 

I'll be back in Indonesia next summer - before then, I plan on writing to the US head of plant imports in Indonesia - maybe he can find  a place willing to get a cert for a plant start that I can bring home?

 

It looks like only the dried daun salam leaves are available in Australia, too. I'm a bit surprised that no one brought in plants before our biosecurity got so strict. I expect it would be a major operation to do so now, similar to what you describe or worse. 

 

You sent me down a bit of a rabbit-hole because daun salam is related to the Australian lilly-pillies. Lilly-pilly berries are edible (although there is varying opinion on whether they are worth eating) and I found a facebook video that said they will send out stems with pink leaves (all new leaves?) that you can eat or just chew on. No mention of eating the green leaves as bush tucker. They are tropical so don't know how well the better tasting varieties will grow where I live.

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It's almost never bad to feed someone.

JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, gfron1 said:

The human brain is amazing sometimes. I immediately recalled a pivotal article from Behr in 1990 on Bay Leaves. Changed how I shop for them forever.

 

And how do you shop for them?

 

Cooking is cool.  And kitchen gear is even cooler.  -- Chad Ward

Whatever you crave, there's a dumpling for you. -- Hsiao-Ching Chou

heidih

heidih

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, gfron1 said:

The human brain is amazing sometimes. I immediately recalled a pivotal article from Behr in 1990 on Bay Leaves. Changed how I shop for them forever.

Interesting. I recall Marlena de Blaso describing the women in an Italian region I don't recall, stringing figs alternating with fresh bay to dry.

AAQuesada

AAQuesada

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, gfron1 said:

I immediately recalled a pivotal article from Behr in 1990 on Bay Leaves.

Thank you for posting, Pretty interesting article. Personally I don't get the dislike for the California bay (fresh anyway) and love it's bolder bay flavor and will often torch it  or toast the fresh leaves as well. That being said I also use Filippone Bay leaves from Sicily which have really blown my away with their flavor, pretty fantastic 

 

Used to be in the Bay leaves don't taste like anything camp but now it's a favorite flavor. 

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