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New Toy: Breville/Polyscience Control Freak!

CanadianHomeChef

By CanadianHomeChef
in Kitchen Consumer

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rotuts

rotuts

Posted
Posted

@Aki 

 

interesting work !

 

what is the sensing device you are using ?

 

Im wondering what sort of data you might get w the pan

 

1/2 filled w water for 100 C or less ?

 

and oil for higher temps ?

Aki

Aki

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, rotuts said:

@Aki 

 

interesting work !

 

what is the sensing device you are using ?

 

Im wondering what sort of data you might get w the pan

 

1/2 filled w water for 100 C or less ?

 

and oil for higher temps ?

 

I am using a Brymen BM869s multimeter with two thermocouples attached to it. It should be accurate within 0.3% + 1.5C (thermocouple accuracy not included), so for example at 250C it should be accurate within a range of 247.75C - 252.25C.

 

Unfortunately my thermocouples are not waterproof but I have a ThermoWorks Smoke and a Thermapen that I can use with water and oil. I'll try to get some measurements done by the end of the week and post here.

  • Thanks 1
Paul Kierstead

Paul Kierstead

Posted
Posted

I think it's fairly clear that top surface and bottom surface temperatures will have a difference depending on a lot of factors, and pan loading will change that again, so it will always be somewhat of an estimate in any case. In real world use, with liquids, I find it can be pretty accurate after stabilizing, though can run higher covered. For things like retherm or simmering it does the trick nicely. For things without a liquid load it definitely varies, but is accurate enough for *cooking*. Some pots, like cast iron, seem to have more trouble with large temperature variations across the pan. 

 

The weirdest one I see is I quite often use mine for pressure cooking, and I'm pretty sure my Kuhn Rikon has correct pressure (reasonably) but a pan temp of 110 will easily hold 15 psi, which makes no sense ... you would expect the bottom surface to be *higher* not lower, I don't get it. It is a very thick bottom though and an odd situation. Or maybe the PC is way off and I just don't notice.

  • 3 weeks later...
Aki

Aki

Posted
Posted

Sorry for the delay but I finally managed to get around testing the device with a pan with oil, methodology is similar to before:

  • I used my All-Clad 12" D3 pan filled with water up to 75 C and Rice Bran oil for temperatures up to 250 C
  • I attached the Control Freak temperature sensor on the centre of the pan without it touching the bottom and used a Thermapen as well
  • I made sure the Control Freak and especially the pan sensor were clean and dry
  • I set the pan on the stove and the intensity to "Low" (I had to switch this to "Medium" for the oil test on temperatures above 200 C because the hob would not cope)
  • Finally, I cycled through all possible temperatures in 25 C increments letting the pan stabilise for 2 minutes each time (using pan sensor, not probe sensor). The day I did the test was hotter so I started the liquid tests from 30 C.

control_freak_temperature_table_with_liquids.png.c805929c66b28f8bf4a1376dd8222051.png

 

A few things I noticed from this testing:

  • "Low" intensity is not enough for water above 75 C and oil above 200 C
  • 2 minutes waiting after each temperature was reached (on the pan) is not enough for the liquid to reach the same temperature, around 10 minutes would have been better
  • The oil at high temperatures did reach higher temperatures than what was measured previously with a surface sensor. Which means that if the pan has at least some "load" then it will be closer to the shown pan temperature
  • For tests on the higher temperatures there was a few seconds lag between measuring with the Control Freak probe and the Thermapen, that is why there is such a difference at 150 C and 200 C.
  • Overall this was done in a fairly unscientific way which lead to inconsistent results, regardless though it shows to me that the hob is working as expected at least when there is "load" in the pan.
  • Thanks 3
gfweb

gfweb

Posted
Posted
On 6/22/2021 at 8:19 AM, Aki said:

Hi all,

 

I too was considering the price of the Control Freak too crazy. I was hoping it would come down to price one day and I've seen it swing from £900 all the way to £1500. After reading this thread, I got convinced that it was a good investment to make and I got lucky spotting a £600 deal on Sous Vide Tools for a refurbished unit. I received my refurbished unit and other than a few marks here and there and a slightly melted rubber seal on the edge of the plate it all looks good. 

 

I decided to test the unit to make sure it performs to spec and I noticed what I think is an odd behaviour but I am not 100% convinced it's a problem. Basically, I took these steps for my testing:

 

  • I used my All-Clad 12" D3 pan where I attached one temperature sensor on the centre of the pan, and one on the edge
  • I made sure the Control Freak and especially the pan sensor were clean and dry
  • I set the pan on the stove and the intensity to "Low"
  • Finally, I cycled through all possible temperatures in 25 C increments

 

Here is a picture of the setup where T1 on the multimeter (bottom) is the centre sensor and T2 (top) is the edge sensor:

 

control_freak_100C_test-min.thumb.jpg.31763fca42b3602e2054ad2d6d377bbc.jpg

 

And here are my test results (in Celsius):

 

898885129_Screenshot2021-06-22at13_08_51.png.46efdcd321fafea5f1bfd45ac0f23922.png

 

As you can see, the higher the temperature, the bigger the variation between the pan sensor and the temperature probe on the pan. The worst case was a 25 C degree difference at 250 C.

 

I don't think this affects the performance of the device much, but has anyone else seen these results? Can you consistently get the set temperature regardless of how high it is?

 

I think that these results might reflect pan performance or size more than the Freak's.  

 

Was the edge probe on a part of the pan that was exposed to the induction?

 

How long did you wait after changing the induction setting until you recorded a temp? 

Aki

Aki

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, gfweb said:

 

I think that these results might reflect pan performance or size more than the Freak's.  

 

Was the edge probe on a part of the pan that was exposed to the induction?

 

How long did you wait after changing the induction setting until you recorded a temp? 

 

Yes that's right, I am pretty sure the pan type and size plays a big role in this. I have checked the coil pattern before and I am pretty sure the edge sensor was right on top of the coil.

 

Also, I measured the temperature the moment the Control Freak beeped that it has reached the temperature (I did not wait for it to stabilise on the non-liquid tests).

  • Like 1
Gnulio

Gnulio

Posted
Posted
On 7/10/2021 at 4:43 PM, Aki said:

 

Yes that's right, I am pretty sure the pan type and size plays a big role in this. I have checked the coil pattern before and I am pretty sure the edge sensor was right on top of the coil.

 

Also, I measured the temperature the moment the Control Freak beeped that it has reached the temperature (I did not wait for it to stabilise on the non-liquid tests).

Is the 220v version right?

Aki

Aki

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Gnulio said:

Is the 220v version right?

Yes that's correct, it has the additional "Max" setting.

  • 2 weeks later...
RedToyTruck

RedToyTruck

Posted
Posted

New Control freak here.  Loving it so far, it also doubles as the worlds most expensive baby bottle warmer.

 

Disappointed my All Clad griddle isn’t compatible, what nonstick griddle is recommended?

  • 4 weeks later...
horseflesh

horseflesh

Posted
Posted

A few weeks ago my NXR gas range/cooktop bit the dust... gas leak! While I've been dealing with the warranty rodeo I have been doing all my cooking outside on a pretty junky induction cooktop. And I hate it, I absolutely hate it... primarily because the heating element is really small, so pots tend to get a hot spot in the middle. It's especially bad with cookware that doesn't have a good heat spreader, like carbon steel... or especially cast iron. It's almost unusable with either of those kinds of pans.  

 

I've been eyeing the Control Freak for a couple of years but with my new recent induction experience I am increasingly gun shy simply because it is an induction cooktop. Those of you who have and love the Control Freak, I would love for you to tell me that there's nothing to worry about in this regard. Or if it IS a drawback, knowing that up front would be a big help too. It would be too bad if I could not use my nice Darto carbon steel pans on the Control Freak, but it might not be a deal killer. 

 

 

JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker

Posted
Posted

I neither posses nor covet a Control Freak, but I love my Paragons.  Next to my APO the Paragons are what I use most for cooking.

 

 

  • Like 1

Cooking is cool.  And kitchen gear is even cooler.  -- Chad Ward

Whatever you crave, there's a dumpling for you. -- Hsiao-Ching Chou

andrewk512

andrewk512

Posted
Posted

I would love to get a Control Freak but instead I have ordered the Hestan Cue + Thermometer at 1/10th of the price of the Control Freak. There is not much info out there about it probably because it is not marketed towards serious cooks. It doesn't have the full versatility of the Control Freak but the main thing I wanted to be able to do was hold liquids at a relatively close temp - for keeping emulsified sauces warm, cooking ice cream base, poaching etc. I will report back once it arrives.

  • Like 2
jaw

jaw

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/22/2021 at 10:30 PM, horseflesh said:

A few weeks ago my NXR gas range/cooktop bit the dust... gas leak! While I've been dealing with the warranty rodeo I have been doing all my cooking outside on a pretty junky induction cooktop. And I hate it, I absolutely hate it... primarily because the heating element is really small, so pots tend to get a hot spot in the middle. It's especially bad with cookware that doesn't have a good heat spreader, like carbon steel... or especially cast iron. It's almost unusable with either of those kinds of pans.  

 

I've been eyeing the Control Freak for a couple of years but with my new recent induction experience I am increasingly gun shy simply because it is an induction cooktop. Those of you who have and love the Control Freak, I would love for you to tell me that there's nothing to worry about in this regard. Or if it IS a drawback, knowing that up front would be a big help too. It would be too bad if I could not use my nice Darto carbon steel pans on the Control Freak, but it might not be a deal killer. 

 

 

 

in terms the burner's size and evenness of the field, the CF is acceptable.

 

however, even if i had several CFs, i personally would not want it as my main cooktop.

  • for general cooking, i prefer controlling power output (open loop control). 0%-100% (100 settings) or actual power in watts would be ideal. instead, you only get three power output settings, and beyond that you must select a temperature setpoint (closed loop). turning the setpoint all the way up is not enough for good open loop control with only three output settings. you can't trick it to work around it.
  • it is rather finicky with cookware compatibility/recognition. slightly warped stuff that should work (and DOES work on other induction cooktops) often won't work on CF.

 

for me, it is a specialty tool. i usually cook on my miele induction range which gives 12 power output settings.

 

love the build quality, though.

Edited by jaw (log)
  • Like 2
JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, jaw said:

 

in terms the burner's size and evenness of the field, the CF is acceptable.

 

however, even if i had several CFs, i personally would not want it as my main cooktop.

  • for general cooking, i prefer controlling power output (open loop control). 0%-100% (100 settings) or actual power in watts would be ideal. instead, you only get three power output settings, and beyond that you must select a temperature setpoint (closed loop). turning the setpoint all the way up is not enough for good open loop control with only three output settings. you can't trick it to work around it.
  • it is rather finicky with cookware compatibility/recognition. slightly warped stuff that should work (and DOES work on other induction cooktops) often won't work on CF.

 

for me, it is a specialty tool. i usually cook on my miele induction range which gives 12 power output settings.

 

love the build quality, though.

 

The Paragon has 10 discrete power output settings, in addition to closed loop temperature control.

 

Cooking is cool.  And kitchen gear is even cooler.  -- Chad Ward

Whatever you crave, there's a dumpling for you. -- Hsiao-Ching Chou

horseflesh

horseflesh

Posted
Posted

Thanks @jaw. Interesting that the CF is fussy about cookware... that's a trait I already have on my junky cooker and I is not awesome. Do you have an induction cooktop you favor? 

 

I cook outside a lot -- especially now that I am mired in a months long warranty issue with NXR -- and I need something decent... I am limited to 120V, though. 

JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, horseflesh said:

Thanks @jaw. Interesting that the CF is fussy about cookware... that's a trait I already have on my junky cooker and I is not awesome. Do you have an induction cooktop you favor? 

 

I cook outside a lot -- especially now that I am mired in a months long warranty issue with NXR -- and I need something decent... I am limited to 120V, though. 

 

Not @jaw, but Paragon.  Forgive me if I repeat myself.  Paragon is awesome.  Now, if you will excuse me, I am off to smash a Kenji smashburger.

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Cooking is cool.  And kitchen gear is even cooler.  -- Chad Ward

Whatever you crave, there's a dumpling for you. -- Hsiao-Ching Chou

horseflesh

horseflesh

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Not @jaw, but Paragon.  Forgive me if I repeat myself.  Paragon is awesome.  Now, if you will excuse me, I am off to smash a Kenji smashburger.

 

 

 

 

 I'm definitely going to check it out. I like the idea of saving a thousand bucks, let me tell ya. 

 

JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, horseflesh said:

 

 I'm definitely going to check it out. I like the idea of saving a thousand bucks, let me tell ya. 

 

 

Paragons are apparently discontinued and hard to find.  As I recall I paid $69 for my last one.  I own three.  At my age they may outlast me.

 

And unlike, say, the anova oven, the Paragons have not caused me any problems.  They just work.  And unlike the anova oven, an idiot did not write the app.

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Cooking is cool.  And kitchen gear is even cooler.  -- Chad Ward

Whatever you crave, there's a dumpling for you. -- Hsiao-Ching Chou

jaw

jaw

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, horseflesh said:

Thanks @jaw. Interesting that the CF is fussy about cookware... that's a trait I already have on my junky cooker and I is not awesome. Do you have an induction cooktop you favor? 

 

I cook outside a lot -- especially now that I am mired in a months long warranty issue with NXR -- and I need something decent... I am limited to 120V, though. 

 

you mean a portable induction cooktop? if so, no. i only have a CF. but the vollrath 4-series is worth a look. see this post for my thoughts:

 

 

i mostly cook on this miele HR 1622-2 induction range:

 

https://www.mieleusa.com/e/30-inch-range-hr-1622-2-10902350-p

 

i strongly prefer it for general purpose cooking. the oven is also pretty badass.

is there room for improvement on this device as well? of course. but it's pretty good. not perfect, but it's imo the best range currently on the market.

Edited by jaw (log)
cgman117

cgman117

Posted
Posted
On 8/22/2021 at 8:30 PM, horseflesh said:

A few weeks ago my NXR gas range/cooktop bit the dust... gas leak! While I've been dealing with the warranty rodeo I have been doing all my cooking outside on a pretty junky induction cooktop. And I hate it, I absolutely hate it... primarily because the heating element is really small, so pots tend to get a hot spot in the middle. It's especially bad with cookware that doesn't have a good heat spreader, like carbon steel... or especially cast iron. It's almost unusable with either of those kinds of pans.  

 

I've been eyeing the Control Freak for a couple of years but with my new recent induction experience I am increasingly gun shy simply because it is an induction cooktop. Those of you who have and love the Control Freak, I would love for you to tell me that there's nothing to worry about in this regard. Or if it IS a drawback, knowing that up front would be a big help too. It would be too bad if I could not use my nice Darto carbon steel pans on the Control Freak, but it might not be a deal killer. 

 

 

I have been using a $50 induction cooktop for the last 5 years and I, too, have been eyeing the Control Freak for the last couple of years.  Last month, I finally got tired of the loud fan noise and poor temperature controls and decided to buy a proper induction cooktop. I was seriously considering the CF, but the features are far beyond my needs and I really wanted something that is simple to use. I ended up with a Hatco PIC which so far has met all of my expectations. It's definitely a major improvement over sub $100 PICs. My model has similar features to the CF including a temperature probe and programmability.

 

nato

nato

Posted
Posted
On 8/30/2021 at 11:12 PM, jaw said:

the vollrath 4-series is worth a look. 

 

 

How big is the coil/burner on these? My main issue with portable induction tops, even the CF, is that the teensy 6 inch burner puts a big hotspot in the middle of the pan. I want something that can evenly fry four eggs in a twelve inch pan.

 

Suggestions are welcome.

btbyrd

btbyrd

Posted
Posted

The biggest element I've seen in a consumer model is in the Max Burton 18XL. I haven't used it personally, but have been curious because I have the same problem with the elements on all the 1800W countertop units around. It makes me reluctant to invest in a fullsize 240 cooktop because I can't abide hotspots. I mostly use my Vollrath Mirage Pro to boil water and to deep fry (and sometimes to melt chocolate) because the heat is too spotty to saute or fry large portions evenly -- even with very conductive/heavy cookware like All Clad D7 and Copper Core.

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cgman117

cgman117

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, nato said:

 

How big is the coil/burner on these? My main issue with portable induction tops, even the CF, is that the teensy 6 inch burner puts a big hotspot in the middle of the pan. I want something that can evenly fry four eggs in a twelve inch pan.

 

Suggestions are welcome.

My Hatco Rapide Cuisine is similar to the CF and Vollrath, its burner is also around 6 inches. I only have decent quality 3-ply stainless steel cookware, and they are not the most even, but I find that heating the pans slowly helps.

 

I agree that it would be nice to have an 8-inch+ burner, but that would make these portable units larger and costlier. Also keep in mind that compared to consumer units (Max Burton, Duxtop, Salton) the CF, Vollrath, and Hatco units are at a completely different level when it comes to build quality and temperature control.

 

I have not used the Max Burton 18XL, but based on reviews, it doesn't appear to have good temperature control. If it's anything like my Salton PIC, I would guess that it's only really useful for boiling water. My $50 Salton PIC is not even good for boiling water. It always overheats and gives error messages if you boil water for too long. Sometimes you really do get what you pay for.

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