How do they do that? (the bonbon thread)

[akonsu]

1 hour ago, teonzo said:

impossible to get those precise corners using a chablon, especially if the compound you are spreading has a high insertion ratio

What is chablon and insertion ratio? Sorry about stupid questions... Is chablon something specific or is it just a fancy word for stencil?

[Kerry Beal]

2 hours ago, akonsu said:

What is chablon and insertion ratio? Sorry about stupid questions... Is chablon something specific or is it just a fancy word for stencil?

 Yup - fancy French name for thick stencil. Not exactly sure how I would define insertion ratio thought 

 

 

[EllaCh]

22 hours ago, teonzo said:

 

I suppose some care must be taken to prevent troubles. If you sprinkle stuff like cocoa nibs on the bottom of the mold, then fill the cavities with tempered chocolate (as usual to create the shell) then a good amount of the crumbs/nibs/whatever would fall with the chocolate in excess. My guess is that he pours a small amount of tempered chocolate on the bottom of each cavity, then sprinkle the crumbs/nibs/whatever, wait for the chocolate to start setting (before it crystallizes, to avoid it detaching from the mold), then proceed as usual to create the shell.

Teo

 

Not necessarily. We did Easter eggs in a similar way during my workshop in Callebaut Chocolate Academy. We didn't pour any chocolate before adding cocoa nibs, small pieces of nuts and other stuff. The trick is not to add too much of that stuff and everything is fine. It doesn't fall with the excess chocolate. However, if there is too thick layer of whatever is used for decoration it will fall off after unmoulding. Hope that makes sense?

Here is the link to pistachio tablet and it is done in the same way: https://www.callebaut.com/en-MDLE/chocolate-recipe/1995/pistachio-velvet-tablet

[teonzo]

3 hours ago, akonsu said:

What is chablon and insertion ratio? Sorry about stupid questions... Is chablon something specific or is it just a fancy word for stencil?

 

Kerry already answered for chablon.

I went by memory writing "insertion ratio", didn't check it, seems like I was mistaken and it's not an English word, sorry. I was meaning the ratio between the solid pieces (since "insertion" is not a word, please suggest the correct one, thanks, "inserts" maybe?) and the fluid phase. The "roof" of the praline in the photo seems to be composed by white chocolate plus some solid pieces (can't understand if they are ground slivered almonds or what else). To prepare that rectangle you need to spread that mixture when the white chocolate is in fluid state, otherwise you can't succeed in spreading it. So when you spread it you have the fluid phase (tempered melted white chocolate) and the "insert" solid phase (forgive me, I can't spend 1 hour to write a post checking every technical term). The higher the solid/fluid ratio is, the more difficult it is to spread it. Especially if you try to spread it inside a small rectangular chablon / stencil: you will have lot of troubles trying to fill the corners, if you want to get a perfect result like in the photo then you need to spend quite some time and patience. It's much easier and quicker to spread a full sheet then cut the rectangles before the white chocolate sets. When you cut something with all those solid pieces you need to cut up-down (pick a scraper, lay it on the sheet along the line you want to cut, press it down), not from side to side with a pairing knife.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[teonzo]

1 hour ago, EllaCh said:

Not necessarily. We did Easter eggs in a similar way during my workshop in Callebaut Chocolate Academy. We didn't pour any chocolate before adding cocoa nibs, small pieces of nuts and other stuff. The trick is not to add too much of that stuff and everything is fine. It doesn't fall with the excess chocolate. However, if there is too thick layer of whatever is used for decoration it will fall off after unmoulding. Hope that makes sense? 

Here is the link to pistachio tablet and it is done in the same way: https://www.callebaut.com/en-MDLE/chocolate-recipe/1995/pistachio-velvet-tablet

 

I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing, especially looking at that pistachio tablet. It's a full tablet without fillings, to prepare it you just fill it with chocolate and wait until it's fully crystallized. Only possible downside is that some chopped pistachios detach from the bar / tablet, zero risks to find chopped pistachios in some excess tempered chocolate you will use for other products.

The pralines by this chocolatier still have a filling, the ones with nibs on top are not full solid chocolate with nibs on top, are a filled praline with nibs on top. Which means that you need to fill the cavities with tempered chocolate when the nibs are already in, and turn them upside down to let the excess chocolate flow out, to leave the empty praline shell to be filled with ganache (or else) and then capped. When you turn the mold upside down there is the possibility that some nibs / solid pieces will fall together the excess chocolate, out of your sight. If you say this probability is really low since the tempered chocolate has low fluidity and acts as a shield, then we agree. If you say the probability is zero, then sorry, I don't agree. That excess chocolate will be used in other products, maybe even for making the ganache for that praline. Every chocolatier wants to avoid the risk of getting unwanted and unseen solid pieces in the chocolate he is going to re-use, for a lot of different reasons.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[akonsu]

@teonzoThanks, I understand now. I am not a native english speaker so I do not know what the right terms are, but I get the concept.

[keychris]

7 hours ago, teonzo said:

In this photo you can see clearly that the cocoa nibs were sprinkled in the mold after some chocolate was poured in each cavity.

 

I believe the nibs are added to a clean mold, but because it's not a solid, even layer, some of the chocolate comes through and spreads out as you see there. I've had exactly this happen when creating easter eggs with inclusions on the shell.

 

 

 

[pastrygirl]

4 hours ago, teonzo said:

I went by memory writing "insertion ratio", didn't check it, seems like I was mistaken and it's not an English word, sorry. I was meaning the ratio between the solid pieces (since "insertion" is not a word, please suggest the correct one, thanks, "inserts" maybe?) and the fluid phase.

 

inclusions ... or 'crunchy stuff'

[EllaCh]

On 3/20/2019 at 8:13 PM, teonzo said:

 

I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing, especially looking at that pistachio tablet. It's a full tablet without fillings, to prepare it you just fill it with chocolate and wait until it's fully crystallized. Only possible downside is that some chopped pistachios detach from the bar / tablet, zero risks to find chopped pistachios in some excess tempered chocolate you will use for other products.

The pralines by this chocolatier still have a filling, the ones with nibs on top are not full solid chocolate with nibs on top, are a filled praline with nibs on top. Which means that you need to fill the cavities with tempered chocolate when the nibs are already in, and turn them upside down to let the excess chocolate flow out, to leave the empty praline shell to be filled with ganache (or else) and then capped. When you turn the mold upside down there is the possibility that some nibs / solid pieces will fall together the excess chocolate, out of your sight. If you say this probability is really low since the tempered chocolate has low fluidity and acts as a shield, then we agree. If you say the probability is zero, then sorry, I don't agree. That excess chocolate will be used in other products, maybe even for making the ganache for that praline. Every chocolatier wants to avoid the risk of getting unwanted and unseen solid pieces in the chocolate he is going to re-use, for a lot of different reasons.

 

 

 

Teo

 

The method is exactly the same for solid bars and filled chocolate. It is done like Keychris says: clean mould, cocoa nibs or other stuff, a bit of tempered chocolate poured over it to keep it in the mould and then when that chocolate starts setting the whole process of filling the cavities and turning upside down can be done.

Yes, I agree there is a chance some bits can fall off but I recon the chance is very little if it is done correctly. We did Easter eggs that were not solid, excess chocolate was poured out in exactly the same way the moulded bonbons were made and we didn't have an pieces falling off. So I do believe that's the way those filled chocolates were made.

[Westy]

That is the way this was made. Put inclusions in the mold, “glue” it with a bit of tempered chocolate. When set, add chocolate for making a shell. Turn over to release extra coverture and let set before filling ( if filling). 

[EmmMax]

Quick and slight deviation -

I posted the "snake trout" bonbons a while ago and have since seen his students work. So according to the attached picture it looks as if the mold is sprayed and then the scale pattern is scraped away by hand. Looks like it definitely takes some practice 

[Tri2Cook]

5 hours ago, EmmMax said:

So according to the attached picture it looks as if the mold is sprayed and then the scale pattern is scraped away by hand.

If so, I applaud their dedication... because there's no way I'm hand-scraping that much design into each individual chocolate. It'd take me 2 days and a whole lot of bad words to do one mold. 

[keychris]

Yeah, my response when I saw that was "are you bleeping kidding me"

 

I like seeing these techniques, but the ones that are just so impractical as to be unusable I just shake my head at.

Edited March 26, 2019 by keychris
Typo (log)

[Kerry Beal]

Yup - same thought - life is too damn short!

[Pastrypastmidnight]

I guess I feel like there are people who go, “I wonder what would happen if I...” Or “I wonder if I can figure out a way to...”

 

I think that’s great. Trying to figure out what’s possible or trying to find a way to translate something from your head to reality. 

 

I wouldn't take a class to learn that technique. Because it’s just not practical. But I can look at it, admire the creativity and artistry and move on doing my own thing ;).

[Merry Berry]

 

 

54 minutes ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

I guess I feel like there are people who go, “I wonder what would happen if I...” Or “I wonder if I can figure out a way to...”

 

I like your attitude haha.  It is how we move forward in life.  Of course, I am not sure if I want people to think of fish and fish scales when they are looking to buy chocolate, but it is a neat design.

I would wonder if you could maybe cut out a design from something soft and flexible like shelf/drawer liners.  Probably not since the detail would need to be too fine, but that would be the first thing I would try.  Anyone else think of a quicker way?

[Tri2Cook]

9 hours ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

I think that’s great. Trying to figure out what’s possible or trying to find a way to translate something from your head to reality. 

I think so too. I spent a lot of time doing exactly that in an earlier stage of my cooking career. I didn't say they shouldn't do it, I just said I won't be doing it. 

 

9 hours ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

But I can look at it, admire the creativity and artistry

Me too. I can do the same with the Sistine Chapel... but my ceiling's not going to look like that anytime soon. 

[Pastrypastmidnight]

8 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:

I think so too. I spent a lot of time doing exactly that in an earlier stage of my cooking career. I didn't say they shouldn't do it, I just said I won't be doing it. 

 

Me too. I can do the same with the Sistine Chapel... but my ceiling's not going to look like that anytime soon. 

Preaching to the choir—I have a degree in Art History and I can’t even draw stick people ;). 

[Kerry Beal]

6 minutes ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

Preaching to the choir—I have a degree in Art History and I can’t even draw stick people ;). 

I flunked straight lines in kindergarten. Teacher had a crying elf stamp - I saw it a lot!

 

Would be neat on a big egg though - make an eye and some gills and scales.

[Jim D.]

7 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

I flunked straight lines in kindergarten.

 

And you have been coloring outside the lines ever since! 😋

 

(Fortunately for all of us here)

[Kerry Beal]

8 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

 

And you have been coloring outside the lines ever since! 😋

 

(Fortunately for all of us here)

LOL

[Bentley]

On 2/20/2019 at 10:27 AM, Jim D. said:

Recently Andrey Dubovik posted a video on Instagram (which is now included in the thread on the Dubovik online course) on how to get his signature "eye" effect in a decoration. Now I'm wondering how he makes the white portion of the piece below. Doing the eye effect often results in a ragged-looking top of the design (because the cocoa butter doesn't move outward in perfect circles), and something like this circle of white would mask that imperfection. So, apply the white first? But how to get that perfect circle? I don't think painting it in would work since that would require an incredibly steady hand and also painting cocoa butter into a mold doesn't come out this well. Maybe masking off the eye portion, spraying white, then removing the mask and creating the eye?

 

 

HI Jim....I know this post is a bit old and perhaps you've got this one figured out....but I saw a video of someone doing this technique.  They fill the mold to the desired level with tempered chocolate and before it fully hardens and contracts away from the mold, they spray the white.  Then, once the chocolate is fully crystalized, they simply turn the mold over and let the pieces fall out, then they proceed with the rest of the decoration.  

Edited March 30, 2019 by Bentley (log)

[julie99nl]

On 3/26/2019 at 7:49 AM, Pastrypastmidnight said:

I guess I feel like there are people who go, “I wonder what would happen if I...” Or “I wonder if I can figure out a way to...”

 

I think that’s great. Trying to figure out what’s possible or trying to find a way to translate something from your head to reality. 

 

I wouldn't take a class to learn that technique. Because it’s just not practical. But I can look at it, admire the creativity and artistry and move on doing my own thing ;).

 

 

I think this pattern would be very nice to work out for a show piece, but any other reason would probably give most people repetitive stress by the end and unless using a rubber gum cleaner, I'd be nervous my mould would be damaged.

 

beautiful work. Congratulations to the student for having the patience to present such lovely work.

Edited March 30, 2019 by julie99nl (log)

[A Polderman]

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 7:27 AM, Jim D. said:

Recently Andrey Dubovik posted a video on Instagram (which is now included in the thread on the Dubovik online course) on how to get his signature "eye" effect in a decoration. Now I'm wondering how he makes the white portion of the piece below. Doing the eye effect often results in a ragged-looking top of the design (because the cocoa butter doesn't move outward in perfect circles), and something like this circle of white would mask that imperfection. So, apply the white first? But how to get that perfect circle? I don't think painting it in would work since that would require an incredibly steady hand and also painting cocoa butter into a mold doesn't come out this well. Maybe masking off the eye portion, spraying white, then removing the mask and creating the eye?

 

 

I recently saw a video that Andrey posted in which he did do as @teonzo stated and filled two cavities with chocolate 2/3  full and placed a popsicle style stick within creating a mask that could be moved to each cavity of the mold to spray.

what I haven't figured out is how the iris and cornea were completed??

[keychris]

Mask the base with the chocolate on a stick. Spray the white. Remove the mask. Do the black pupil. Leave to set. Do the cornea with whatever technique he uses.