The Bread Topic (2016–)

[KennethT]

1 minute ago, Tropicalsenior said:

I know that in shaping my bread, I always let it sit a while after the first shaping to let it relax completely before I shape it again. Maybe it just needs to rest a little longer in that one step of the process. I might also add that I know nothing at all about this type of bread but it might be worth a try.

I've tried resting it over night!!!

[Tropicalsenior]

1 minute ago, KennethT said:

I've tried resting it over night!!!

Each time you handle the dough the gluten tightens up a little bit. What I am saying is rest it more in between shaping the snake and coiling the disc.

[KennethT]

5 minutes ago, Tropicalsenior said:

Each time you handle the dough the gluten tightens up a little bit. What I am saying is rest it more in between shaping the snake and coiling the disc.

Yes, I've tried that too. I usually make a large batch - enough for like 4 meals worth.  After the kneading/balling, I've let it rest all day/overnight then stretched/snaked, then frozen individually.  Then on the day I want to use them, I'll defrost the night before and let rest the whole day before trying to flatten.  But definitely good ideas.

 

I think @dtremit is onto something.  I definitely knead the crap out of the dough (by hand) thinking that I need it to have a strong gluten structure in order to stretch it without tearing.  I could very well be overkneading - for this application at least.  So maybe kneading less or adding more of an ingredient that inhibits gluten formation.

[Tropicalsenior]

6 minutes ago, KennethT said:

But definitely good ideas.

I hope that you figure it out because I know how frustrating it can be when there's just that one thing missing or that one step that won't work. Your food is always amazing and it is obvious how important the right ingredients and getting the right results are to you.

[heidih]

@KennethT are you doing a hot water dough?

[KennethT]

1 hour ago, heidih said:

@KennethT are you doing a hot water dough?

Everything I've ever read about making prata recommends using "warm" or "tepid" water, however that is defined.  What happens if you use hot water?  How would that differ from using warm water?

[Tropicalsenior]

27 minutes ago, KennethT said:

How would that differ from using warm water?

https://earthtoveg.com/hot-water-dough/#:~:text=The Science of Scalded Flour,-Scalding flour has&text=Breaks down and inhibits gluten,the strength of the dough.

[KennethT]

2 hours ago, Tropicalsenior said:

I hope that you figure it out because I know how frustrating it can be when there's just that one thing missing or that one step that won't work. Your food is always amazing and it is obvious how important the right ingredients and getting the right results are to you.

Thanks and you're right - it is REALLY frustrating to know the results you want to get and not be able to get them!  I have very little bread/pastry experience - I don't eat much bread or pastry at all, so I almost never make it.  I think the last time I made bread was maybe 15 years ago when the Tim Lahey no knead method (in the dutch oven) came out.  It turned out pretty good, but I only made it because we were having a bunch of people over for dinner who I knew liked bread.  Since then, we've moved to a new apartment, and this one doesn't even have a real oven!  Then again, I've seen some people do some really good looking breads in the CSO, so that shouldn't really be an inhibitor for me.

 

I wish I understood the theory behind how various different ingredients interact - flour proteins, oil, milk proteins, salt, sugar, etc. - I feel like if I knew the science behind it, I could get a lot closer to what I'm looking for.

[Tropicalsenior]

"hot water dough is used for making things other than yeasted bread, such as unleavened flatbreads (tortilla, bolani, roti, paratha) and dough wrappers (dumplings, perogies, manti)."

 

Sounds like she might be on to something here.

[KennethT]

5 minutes ago, Tropicalsenior said:

"hot water dough is used for making things other than yeasted bread, such as unleavened flatbreads (tortilla, bolani, roti, paratha) and dough wrappers (dumplings, perogies, manti)."

 

Sounds like she might be on to something here.

Thanks for that link - I just read through it - it definitely looks like it goes in the direction I'm looking for!  Now I'm dying to try it!!!

[Tropicalsenior]

3 minutes ago, KennethT said:

I wish I understood the theory behind how various different ingredients interact

That makes two of us. I understand the basics but I'm afraid I'm a little too old or too lazy to figure out hydration, Etc.

I basically have my repertoire of breads that I have always made and my method of judging the hydration is to poke it. I've made them so much that I can tell how they will turn out from the feel of them. I have a big oven that goes up to 550°, but I live in the tropics and when I use it my kitchen goes up to 150°, so I use a small countertop oven that works fine for me. I don't even know why I look at this thread. It is pure torture because not only can I not make this beautiful bread I can't even buy it. But I certainly enjoyed looking at the product of the people here. It all looks so good.

[Tropicalsenior]

3 minutes ago, KennethT said:

Now I'm dying to try it!!!

Let me know how it turns out. It might be the answer to some of my problems with making flat bread.

[heidih]

My other bservation is that when I see these tyoes of breads made in situ in Asia it is generally in war, humid climates and the practitioners of the art are super quick - no over kneading. Bam bam bam done with top down pressure. A pleasure to watch

[KennethT]

1 hour ago, heidih said:

My other bservation is that when I see these tyoes of breads made in situ in Asia it is generally in war, humid climates and the practitioners of the art are super quick - no over kneading. Bam bam bam done with top down pressure. A pleasure to watch

Usually in SG, the prata guys make the dough balls the night before and slather them in margarine (which stays solid at tropical temps). Then they stretch and fry to order. I wish I took pics/video when I've been there... I was too busy watching/salivating.

[lindag]

On 11/26/2022 at 6:40 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I've been told I have a big head.  But probably not that big.

 

@JoNorvelleWalker, For larger loaves I've seen coverings like produce bags or the plastic grocery bags used.  I think it's important to cover the loaves.  Sometimes I've just used a large damp dish towel.

[Tropicalsenior]

6 minutes ago, lindag said:

On 11/26/2022 at 7:40 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

@JoNorvelleWalker, For larger loaves I've seen coverings like produce bags or the plastic grocery bags used. 

I don't like the extra oil in my bread so when I let it rise the first time I always just put it under a big plastic mixing bowl, a trick that I learned from The Frugal Gourmet almost 40 years ago.

 

7 minutes ago, lindag said:

just used a large damp dish towel.

After it is shaped I do this but I put a thin dish towel over it and spray it with a fine mist of water so that it's never too wet.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

3 hours ago, Tropicalsenior said:

I don't like the extra oil in my bread so when I let it rise the first time I always just put it under a big plastic mixing bowl, a trick that I learned from The Frugal Gourmet almost 40 years ago.

 

After it is shaped I do this but I put a thin dish towel over it and spray it with a fine mist of water so that it's never too wet.

 

I don't understand about the oil?

 

[Tropicalsenior]

2 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I don't understand about the oil?

 

Your basic bread directions usually say, generously oil or butter a bowl and place the bread in it to rise. Once I have finished my dough, it is the way I want it and I don't want any more oil or butter in it.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 minutes ago, Tropicalsenior said:

Your basic bread directions usually say, generously oil or butter a bowl and place the bread in it to rise. Once I have finished my dough, it is the way I want it and I don't want any more oil or butter in it.

 

I had never seen the technique of proofing in a bowl with oil.  I use a linen lined banneton.  Before I was baking round breads, I used a well seasoned steel pan with a cover for proofing and baking my baguettes.

 

 

[Tropicalsenior]

8 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

had never seen the technique of proofing in a bowl with oil.

I'm talking about recipes with directions like this.

 

"Firstly, cover your dough in a little olive oil, and place it in a large bowl where the dough will have room to expand to at least twice its size,"

 

That gorgeous bread that you make is not the general run of the mill product that these recipes turn out. Sadly, mine is but it's better than what I can buy here.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I found something that might work to solve my problem.  I have a Vollrath 13 qt mixing bowl that fits over the banneton with a little room to spare.  Maybe not enough room to prevent the rising dough from sticking.

 

Another possibility:  I have a round rack that just fits the bottom of the Vollrath bowl.  I could put a little water in the bowl and set the banneton on the rack.  I have a large Cuisinart domed lid that almost covers the bowl, but the lid fits well enough not to leave an air gap.  The bowl and lid would allow more room for expansion.

 

[KennethT]

So it seems as if Google has been reading this thread (or getting creepily good at predicting what I want to look at)... this popped up at the top of my YouTube feed:

 

She is speaking Malaysian, but there are some English translations that pop up for the necessary things.  She just uses regular water - but she uses a LOT more fat than I have and doesn't knead much at all.  She's using maybe 4x as much fat as I am in my dough, and hers stretches out so easily - it looks like she's barely putting any effort in!

[Anna N]

47 minutes ago, KennethT said:

She's using maybe 4x as much fat as I am in my dough

Yep, it does not look like a dough for the fat-phobic!😂

[Ann_T]

Today's bake. Dough made on Sunday November 27th and taken out of the fridge last night.

Left on the counter over night and baked this morning.

 

My regular recipe but with about 50g of a seed mixture added.

[SusieQ]

On 11/27/2022 at 3:43 PM, Tropicalsenior said:

I basically have my repertoire of breads that I have always made and my method of judging the hydration is to poke it.

I love this!