Cleaning & Disinfecting Plastic Cutting Boards

[Porthos]

I look forward to reading the article when I am back in front of a computer.

[blue_dolphin]

2 hours ago, Shel_B said:

Yet here Clorox says (certainly strongly suggests) that the product contains sodium chloride.  I'm no chemist, but it seems to me that all of the chlorine is not converted to sodium hypochlorite ...

 

You are correct, the chemical reaction between chlorine and sodium hydroxide produces sodium hypochlorite, sodium chloride and water:  Cl₂ + 2 NaOH → NaCl + NaClO + H₂O

Is the presence of NaCl in household bleach a concern for you? 

 

2 hours ago, Shel_B said:

From my past personal experience dealing with the Clorox company in business, I am skeptical of their candor and honesty

From a scientific perspective, I think it's sloppily written.   For example, the paragraph that you quoted from has the header, "There is no free chlorine in household bleach."  Writing as a scientist, I would never write, "there is no X in Y," when all I really know is that the level of X in Y is below the detection limits of whatever method was used to measure it.   

That said, I wouldn't automatically conclude dishonesty either.  They chose simple language that illustrated their main point that household bleach is not actually "chlorine" bleach - the active ingredient is  sodium hypochlorite and while chlorine is used in the manufacturing process, it's not present in the final product.  

I suppose they could have been more complete by saying, "During this process, all of the chlorine is converted to a sodium hypochlorite solution that also includes water and sodium chloride  but it's still going to be a simplification of a single step in the manufacturing process.   

Edited August 8, 2016 by blue_dolphin (log)

[daveb]

My reluctance to having bottled bleach in the kitchen is because of the possibiliy of a spill and because I have no use that requires it in undiluted form.

 

I use the Clorox product "Soft Scrub" to clean/sanitize poly, Sani-tuff or Epicurean boards that I use for proteins.  I use these at home, on a food truck, catering and in a restaurant.  Thorough rinse after.  

 

The soft scrub is not specifically recognized as food safe so for the commercial applications I use the soft scrub first then go through the approved washing/sanitizing for each.

 

Boards are clean and everybody is happy.

 

Also use the soft scrub product to clean coolers, bottom of the fridge, food pans, etc.  Any place funky that I want clean.

 

Now back to building the watch...

insert smiley here

[dscheidt]

On 8/7/2016 at 6:15 PM, paulraphael said:

 

Just don't use a planer on an endgrain board. You'll destroy the board and probably also the planer. 2nd hand advice from the Boardsmith.

Yeah, I was talking about the plastic ones, not wood ones.  I'd sand wood ones.

[dcarch]

Sanding creates micro grooves for germs.

A cabinet maker's scraper gives a very smooth surface.

 

dcarch

Edited August 9, 2016 by dcarch (log)

[ChocoMom]

FWIW....Hydrogen Peroxide is dandy.  No odor.  J ust let it set on the board for a minute or two. it'll fizz. Then rinse and dry thoroughly.  

 

If there are stains to get rid of, try coarse salt or baking soda to scrub with. 

[Thanks for the Crepes]

45 minutes ago, ChocoMom said:

FWIW....Hydrogen Peroxide is dandy.  No odor.  J ust let it set on the board for a minute or two. it'll fizz. Then rinse and dry thoroughly.  

 

If there are stains to get rid of, try coarse salt or baking soda to scrub with. 

 

I thought this was such a great idea, I just tried it on my meat and veggie boards. At first I thought the peroxide may have gone inactive, but it's in date. It also reacted when in touched it with my fingers that had recently been washed with soap and water. Then I poured some on the sponge, and it went crazy and the sponge got warm.

 

So, apparently my current sterilization procedures are working fine for the cutting boards, but I gotta work on the sponge procedures. The one that reacted so strongly has been rotated down for wiping up floor spills, and replaced with a new one. 

 

ETA: When I exposed the new sponge to the peroxide on the boards, it did not react, so it wasn't reacting with the cellulose in the old one, but something more sinister. Well, good to know, and a good test to see how clean your sponge is too. I always wash out the sinks with a sponge and hot soapy water as the last step of cleaning the kitchen and rinse everything well in hot water. Then I prop up the sponge against the backsplash so it'll dry out thoroughly. Clearly, this isn't enough. I guess I have been lucky, but I need to do better here.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Thanks for the Crepes (log)

[Porthos]

I can't remember where I had read about hydrogen peroxide but my memory is that for thorough sanitizing to cover all of the common classes of harmful pathogens you use the peroxide then rinse and then use vinegar. The HP and vinegar can not be combined. I double-checked this before finishing this post.

[Porthos]

13 hours ago, Porthos said:

I can't remember where I had read about hydrogen peroxide but my memory is that for thorough sanitizing to cover all of the common classes of harmful pathogens you use the peroxide then rinse and then use vinegar. The HP and vinegar can not be combined. I double-checked this before finishing this post.

 

SInce bleach is my friend I don't bother with this time-consuming technique.

 

@daveb I have bleach in the house for use with laundry so in my case the bleach has multiple uses.

[paulraphael]

On August 8, 2016 at 11:24 PM, dcarch said:

Sanding creates micro grooves for germs.

A cabinet maker's scraper gives a very smooth surface.

 

dcarch

 

 

Is this based on any research? Sounds dubious to me. Sandpaper comes in grits finer than the fiber structure of the wood. And I don't think the problem is microgrooves; it's deep grooves. 

 

FWIW, David Smith the Boardsmith finishes his wood boards with a belt sander before shipping them to customers. The surface is like glass.

[paulraphael]

I can't find much research on hydrogen peroxide as a sanitizer, except in specialized situations like breweries. Which seems strange—it's great stuff, is very safe to use, is non-corrosive to metals, doesn't damage textiles, etc. etc..

 

When I worked in a commercial kitchen ages ago we used Ajax-like stuff that said "oxygen bleach cleaner" on the label. It was peroxide based. The idea is that it wouldn't attack stainless steel the way chlorine bleach does. But I never see this stuff anymore.

 

I recently found a Clorox hydrogen peroxide disinfectant online. The stuff is great—I used it to clean up the house after a recent bout of norovirus left the place disgusting and infectious (I won't go into details). This stuff is packaged for hospitals, with a huge label that tells you how to use it to kill everything. It's non-toxic and actually smells good!

 

But it's a strong disinfectant, not a sanitizer. My only guess about peroxide's unpopularity is that weak solutions of it are unstable. They just last a little while, and then you just have a bottle of plain water.

[dcarch]

36 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

Is this based on any research? Sounds dubious to me. Sandpaper comes in grits finer than the fiber structure of the wood. And I don't think the problem is microgrooves; it's deep grooves. 

 

FWIW, David Smith the Boardsmith finishes his wood boards with a belt sander before shipping them to customers. The surface is like glass.

 

No. Not based on any research. Just my limited common sense.

 

The making of sandpaper uses an electrostatic process, the charge on the particles causes sharp points to stand up. The sharp points will create groves on wood.  The fine grain sandpaper will create very fine groves, I am not sure if the fine groves actually are smaller than many germs. 

 

Fine grain sandpaper gets clotted up very quickly and become useless. Used sandpaper may be dirty to be used again. Besides, normal kitchen just don't have a good supply of fine grit sandpaper.

 

The shine on new boards from stores are mostly the oil finish applied on the board.

 

A cabinet scraper will last and last and can be easily cleaned. It will give you a very very flat finish on wood. That's why cabinet makers use them instead of sandpaper.

 

dcarch

 

 

 

 

[Lisa Shock]

I looked around and found a lot of blogs promoting peroxide, but, the FDA sites on sanitizing do not list it as an approved method. I did find this article which cites a real study which bloggers apparently ran with and made assumptions about. The takeaway here is that peroxide may sanitize depending on concentration and freshness), as may vinegar, but they often take a 30 minute soak to do so.

http://cleaningbusinesstoday.com/blog/hydrogen-peroxide-vinegar-a-disinfecting-duo

Edited August 11, 2016 by Lisa Shock (log)

[dcarch]

13 minutes ago, Lisa Shock said:

I looked around and found a lot of blogs promoting peroxide, but, the FDA sites on sanitizing do not list it as an approved method. I did find this article which cites a real study which bloggers apparently ran with and made assumptions about. The takeaway here is that peroxide may sanitize 9depending on concentration and freshness), as may vinegar, but they often take a 30 minute soak to do so.

http://cleaningbusinesstoday.com/blog/hydrogen-peroxide-vinegar-a-disinfecting-duo

 

Before I use UV germicidal light, I just put a slightly wet towel on the board, and press a hot electric iron on it for a few seconds. Very quick and easy.

 

dcarch

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by dcarch (log)

[rotuts]

i use 220 wet/dry sandpaper on my poly boards when groves have a bit of fine 'fuzz' along the groves made my my knives.

 

it does not clog.   I go gently along the grove only to remove the tiny bit a long the edge that seems to keep food in the grove.

 

I can tell this is happening when after washing the board by hand with a textured teflon sponge there is still some color in the grove.

 

its very hard to feel the sort of 'fuzz' im talking about.  but you can see its effect on some grooves after a scrub.

 

I also flush and set the boards with a hot  bleach/water solution from time to time.  letting it sit for a while.

 

this solution, maybe even as high as 50:50 has never damaged my SS although i rise it carefully after the soak.

 

the soaking is above the sink on an inverted rubber coated dish rack.

[gfweb]

Peroxide only fizzes when there is an enzyme to degrade it. If your board fizzes then there is biologic material on it and probably bacteria growing in it. 

 

But fizzing isn't a sign of sterilization, just degradation of H₂O₂

 

Drug store  peroxide is too weak. Only strong, ie dangerous, concentrations of peroxide will sterilize and the "cycle time' is around 30 minutes.

[gfweb]

I wonder if one couldn't wash a board and then bake it at 56C for a few hours. That kills all but spores and is chemical free.

[Lisa Shock]

Depends on the board. I have seen recommendations to microwave boards, but, even on low, not every board would survive that.

[Shel_B]

16 hours ago, paulraphael said:

I recently found a Clorox hydrogen peroxide disinfectant online [...] But it's a strong disinfectant, not a sanitizer.

 

What's the difference between a disinfectant and a sanitizer?  What's the practical difference when it comes to plastic cutting boards?

 

BTW, I found this, which looks to be a stronger solution of Hydrogen Peroxide.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Shel_B (log)

[gfweb]

Far as I can see there is no official distinction (as in a government definition) between sanitizers and disinfectants.  More a usage thing perhaps...sanitizer for hands, disinfectant for the garbage can.

 

 

[Porthos]

See the second paragraph for the difference, in relation to food safety, between sanitizing and disinfecting.

 

http://www.foodsafetymagazine.com/magazine-archive1/augustseptember-2011/sanitizers-and-disinfectants-the-chemicals-of-prevention/

[boilsover]

On 8/8/2016 at 9:21 PM, Thanks for the Crepes said:

 

I thought this was such a great idea, I just tried it on my meat and veggie boards. At first I thought the peroxide may have gone inactive, but it's in date. It also reacted when in touched it with my fingers that had recently been washed with soap and water. Then I poured some on the sponge, and it went crazy and the sponge got warm.

 

So, apparently my current sterilization procedures are working fine for the cutting boards, but I gotta work on the sponge procedures. The one that reacted so strongly has been rotated down for wiping up floor spills, and replaced with a new one. 

 

ETA: When I exposed the new sponge to the peroxide on the boards, it did not react, so it wasn't reacting with the cellulose in the old one, but something more sinister. Well, good to know, and a good test to see how clean your sponge is too. I always wash out the sinks with a sponge and hot soapy water as the last step of cleaning the kitchen and rinse everything well in hot water. Then I prop up the sponge against the backsplash so it'll dry out thoroughly. Clearly, this isn't enough. I guess I have been lucky, but I need to do better here.

 

 

It IS a great idea.  Hydrogen peroxide is a very versatile and economic chemical to keep in your household.  A neighbor recently gave me a gallon of 35% concentrate from here:  http://purehealthdiscounts.com/

 

The key to HP use is its dilution.  35% dilutes down to these proportions

Use                                                        Mix                                                          Ratio

3% Conversion                                  1 ounce per 11 ounces water                      1:11

Hand Wash                                        1 ounce per pint water                                1:16

General Sanitizing                             1 cup per 1 gallon water                              1:16

Laundry                                              1 cup per load                                               --

Vegetable and Meat Wash                 1/8 cup per 1-gallon water                         1:128

Plant Watering                                  1/2 ounce per 1-gallon                                1:256

I keep a spray bottle of 1:16 around all the time or cutting boards.  That strength is also amazing for removing red wine stains, pet accidents, etc..

[gfweb]

Why in the world would you water plants with peroxide?

[dcarch]

Just now, gfweb said:

Why in the world would you water plants with peroxide?

 

beneficial for roots for some soil.

 

dcarch 

[gfweb]

Not sure that's believable. I looked at some of the "literature" on the internet.