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Pâte de Fruits (Fruit Paste/Fruit Jellies) (Part 2)

minas6907

By minas6907
in Pastry & Baking

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mrk

mrk

Posted
Posted

That seems like a lot of pectin to add for that small amount of puree.

 

mine is very easy, if a slightly larger batch size than yours:

 

6g tartaric (or citric) acid

43g caster sugar (1)

3.5g pectin

516g cassis puree

504g caster sugar (2)

156g glucose

 

dissolve the acid in a small amount of boiling water. Combine the sugar (1) and the pectin. Boil the puree and dissolved acid, add the pectin/sugar. Return to the boil, add sugar (2), return to boil, add glucose. Cook over high heat to 107C, whisking continuously.

 

pour into frame, leave to set. This doesn't require any refrigeration to set. It's important that the puree stays at the boil whilst you add the two sugars, you can warm them in the oven for a little while before you add them so the temperature difference is not so great.

 

HTH

Thank Keychris

 

I test so use small batch, if I use 140g puree, how much pectin that I use? and I haven't tartaric or citric acid, in my area hard to found it, I try follow your advice. do you make it in chocolate also? what about mouth feel?

  • 2 weeks later...
Droo

Droo

Posted
Posted

mrk,

 

I too made pdf which was too sticky. I used a recipe similar to Chris' above. Note that different fruits used will use slightly different ratios to get to the correct pH.

 

The tips I was told were:

Getting the correct pH is important - Tartaric acid (and I presume citric as well will work) helps gel the pdf which reduces the stickiness.

It is also important to get to 107 celsius.

 

I was recommended that to reduce the stickiness, I needed to ensure i used the acid and whisk like there is no tomorrow.

 

Ive used a couple of different pectins as well - a NH pectin which produced a softer pdf and citris pectin. I'd recommend the citrus.

 

I'd try and source the acid from the net if you can't get it from your supermarket.

mrk

mrk

Posted
Posted

mrk,

 

I too made pdf which was too sticky. I used a recipe similar to Chris' above. Note that different fruits used will use slightly different ratios to get to the correct pH.

 

The tips I was told were:

Getting the correct pH is important - Tartaric acid (and I presume citric as well will work) helps gel the pdf which reduces the stickiness.

It is also important to get to 107 celsius.

 

I was recommended that to reduce the stickiness, I needed to ensure i used the acid and whisk like there is no tomorrow.

 

Ive used a couple of different pectins as well - a NH pectin which produced a softer pdf and citris pectin. I'd recommend the citrus.

 

I'd try and source the acid from the net if you can't get it from your supermarket.

Thanks Droo

  • 4 months later...
  • 1 year later...
bobdrob

bobdrob

Posted
Posted

As a High School Culinary Instructor, I need a recipe/ formula for a Pate de Fruit using  AGAR.

 

I have tons with pectin, but would like an agar recipe to contrast with pectin & gelatin work.

 

All replies greatly appreciated.  regards,  bob

  • 5 months later...
DianaB

DianaB

Posted
Posted

I have never made pâte de fruits although I have enjoyed eating them from time to time.  I have read most of this thread and installed the Boiron app mentioned above. The Yummily recipe also cited above is no longer available.

 

I would like to have a go at making these, preferably without a great deal of investment due to the amount of stuff I have already accumulated for other cookery projects and very limited storage space.  In my cupboards I have:

  • Cream of tartar
  • Certo liquid apple pectin
  • Xantham extra fine powder
  • NH pectin powder
  • Sugar in various forms
  • sheets of gelatin, also powdered, I've never had any success with the powdered.
  • glucose but only about 100g
  • bought in raspberry coulis that claims to include 42% raspberry juice,  18 % raspberries, and 7% raspberry  purée! sugar! glucose! lemon juice cornflour and water make up the rest. entire bottle is 250ml 
  • 350g frozen morello cherries.
  • Small amount (perhaps 200g) frozen blackcurrants from the garden
  • smaller amount blackcurrant coulis
  • Any amount of cooked but unsweetened apple from the garden. 
  • indeterminate amount frozen mango pulp, probably around 250g, not cooked, I froze it to save throwing fruit away.

i have a Thermopen and a different probe thermometer, also a single induction hot plate, I note earlier in the thread there was reference to using induction as a good way to control temperature in this process. Our usual hob is gas.  I have a scale that can measure very small quantities, also nice little cellophane bags that would look really good filled with the finished product.....  

 

I can test for ph.

 

Given the above as a starting point, what would you suggest as a first attempt? It would be good to have pâte de fruits to give as small gifts in place of chocolates during the warmer months when chocolate can be difficult to transport. I am not a professional cook so small quantity based suggestions would be really welcome. I know I can scale if necessary but at times a recipe for a large quantity doesn't translate too well when significantly scaled down. 

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who has time to help me with this project. 

 

 

gfron1

gfron1

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, DianaB said:

 

  • Cream of tartar
  • Certo liquid apple pectin
  • Xantham extra fine powder
  • NH pectin powder
  • Sugar in various forms
  • sheets of gelatin, also powdered, I've never had any success with the powdered.
  • glucose but only about 100g
  • bought in raspberry coulis that claims to include 42% raspberry juice,  18 % raspberries, and 7% raspberry  purée! sugar! glucose! lemon juice cornflour and water make up the rest. entire bottle is 250ml 
  • 350g frozen morello cherries.
  • Small amount (perhaps 200g) frozen blackcurrants from the garden
  • smaller amount blackcurrant coulis
  • Any amount of cooked but unsweetened apple from the garden. 
  • indeterminate amount frozen mango pulp, probably around 250g, not cooked, I froze it to save throwing fruit away.

You don't need much of this, and you do need yellow pectin or pate de fruit pectin. I'm sure it can be done without the pectin, but that's a key ingredient for reliable success. The pectins you have are used for jellies or glazes. The other things I crossed out are also irrelevant for PDF. The recipes are fairly straightforward. With that set of fruits I would do the raspberry recipe which doesn't require a base (apricot or pear). All you need is a the puree, sugar, glucose (or corn syrup) and tartaric acid. If you don't have access to the acid its not the end of the world, but a hit of lemon juice at the end would be nice. PH meter also not necessary, but a fairly reliable thermometer is. Is there a specific question that you have about the process?

 

ETA: I'm rethinking this. I missed that the coulis has cornflour in it. I would probably go the route of the black currant then which also does not need a base puree. Add a little vodka or booze at the end.

Edited by gfron1 (log)

Chef, Bulrush & Squatters in St. Louis, MO

BBC Write-up

Smithsonian magazine story

DianaB

DianaB

Posted
Posted

Many thanks for your detailed advice gfron1.  I don't have a recipe, this is something I probably wouldn't have attempted if I hadn't seen the discussion above but I do like eating pâte de fruits and they might well make a nice gift in place of chocolates from time to time.

 

I know very little about pectin. I understand it needs to be mixed with sugar to prevent clumping, then into a cold liquid that is heated to whatever temp depending on the final product.  I bought the NH on the recommendation of someone at Speciality Ingrdients, a U.K. firm that has numerous things for 'modernist' cooks (I'm not one, for now I'm enjoying learning bits and pieces here on eGullet but that's it), the person advising said it was the best pectin available.  

 

So, I have the blackcurrants and the other stuff listed above. I think the Thermapen is reasonably reliable, just need to convince myself it's doable and get started!

 

Thanks again for your kind advice.

gfron1

gfron1

Posted
Posted

Okay, I have a better understanding of what your situation is. First off - the guy who sold you the pectin doesn't know what he's talking about. Its not a matter of which is best, its a matter of which is correct for the job. NH is for glazing pastries. Go get the right stuff. Its not that expensive and it'll be worth it. 

 

Here's what you're going to do:

1. Take as many black currants as you have and add 60 ml water. Process in the blender with about 20g more or less of sugar. Process really well and run through a strainer. I like texture in my PDF so I would use a course strainer so I can get some pulp, but if you prefer more refined use a finer holed sieve. End up with 200 g black currant puree. This is a small batch that I think will give you about a loaf pan of final product.

 

2. Combine 22 g sugar with 8.5 g yellow pectin (whisk with a fork); when the puree is warm to the touch (not hot), add the sugar/pectin mixture and whisk very well so no lumps form. Whisk/stir for 3 minutes. Now add 200 g granulated sugar in three additions, whisk/stirring really well each time. After the last addition, add 40 g glucose or corn syrup.

 

3. Stir consistently, but no need to be aggressive, until you reach 107ºC. While you're waiting for that to reach temp, line a loaf pan with foil. Lightly, very lightly, oil it with cooking spray or a neutral oil (canola, veg) and wipe out excess. 

 

4. When mixture hits 107ºC add 2.5 ml combination of gin and lemon juice (meaning a combination of the two totals 2.5 ml). Remove the pan from the heat and pour the gin and juice into it and whisk quickly. Immediately, and carefully so you don't burn yourself, pour this mixture into the lined pan. Let it set for at least 3 hours and ideally overnight.

 

That's it. It really is easy. The two biggest cautions are 1. the pectin sugar mix which you already understand; and 2. don't panic and not cook it to 107º. Take multiple readings in various locations of your pan to get an accurate reading. If you're too low on the temp it will be sticky. If you're too high, it will be edible but too firm. 

 

5. Once its set, cut into squares. In a bowl add 125 g sugar with 20 g citric acid/tartaric acid or worst case, lemon zest. Toss the squares in the sugar mix and store in an airtight container. Let us know how it goes.

 

[note: pros, I think you'll see why I suggested some of the things I did to accommodate her pantry and equipment. Not ideal but we're not worrying about shelf life and such.]

  • Like 2

Chef, Bulrush & Squatters in St. Louis, MO

BBC Write-up

Smithsonian magazine story

DianaB

DianaB

Posted
Posted

This is absolutely brilliant and thanks so much for taking the time to set it all out.  We have Amazon Prime (free next day delivery)  so will search out yellow pectin, if not from there I know of other suppliers to try in the UK.  Hopefully if I can get that I'll be making a first attempt at the end of the week.

 

Blackcurrant is one of my favourite fruits, we grow a small quantity here in North Yorkshire so it seems entirely appropriate that these form the base of my first attempt.  

 

Will report back in due course!

gfron1

gfron1

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, DianaB said:

This is absolutely brilliant and thanks so much for taking the time to set it all out.  We have Amazon Prime (free next day delivery)  so will search out yellow pectin, if not from there I know of other suppliers to try in the UK.  Hopefully if I can get that I'll be making a first attempt at the end of the week.

 

Blackcurrant is one of my favourite fruits, we grow a small quantity here in North Yorkshire so it seems entirely appropriate that these form the base of my first attempt.  

 

Will report back in due course!

If you don't see yellow pectin (which I assume you will), search pectin and watch for pectin for pate de fruit. Its common. It'll be there. And you're welcome. Can't wait to see what you come up with. 

  • Like 1

Chef, Bulrush & Squatters in St. Louis, MO

BBC Write-up

Smithsonian magazine story

Tri2Cook

Tri2Cook

Posted
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Yellow pectin in Europe might be labelled apple pectin or vitpris.

 

 


Yeah, I ran into that with a recipe several years ago. Even with the help of google, it took me quite a while to figure out what the heck "vitpris" was. Once I knew what it was, looking at it in context with the rest of the ingredients, I felt pretty dumb for not being able to figure it out for myself.

Edited by Tri2Cook (log)

It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

DianaB

DianaB

Posted
Posted

Yellow pectin found and ordered, hoping it will be here for the end of the week so I can have a first attempt.  For others in Eorope this company sells a good range of things for patisserie, chocolate making etc:

http://www.souschef.co.uk

  • Like 1
DJ Silverchild

DJ Silverchild

Posted
Posted

Im going to try the Boiron passion fruit recipe but i want to use pear puree instead of apricot.  Would I need to change the amount of sugar, pectin or acid?

 

Thank you for helping.

blue_dolphin

blue_dolphin

Posted
Posted

Seeing this thread pop up again piqued my interest.  I've enjoyed tiny bites of these pâtes served at the end of a meal and wondered if I could translate my lime and ginger marmalade into this sort of confection.

Reading through this thread from beginning to the present convinced me that this is sticky xD business indeed and I am quite unqualified to jump in!

 

That said, I came upon this Lucky Peach recipe for a 2 layered Grapefruit-Campari Pâte de Fruit and especially this related article, "Opusculum: Pâte de Fruit" by Michael Laiskonis that I (as a competent scientist but confectionary bonehead :D) thought offered solid, concise coverage of many of the points around pectin, acid, etc.  discussed in this thread so I thought I'd post and add the link here. If it was mentioned earlier, in this thread or the many other eG confectionary threads, I apologize for the repetition.  

 

I'm not sure I am up to the task of making pâtes de fruits, to be added to my little homemade holiday gifts, but if I do, I certainly appreciate all the expert guidance shared here.

  • Like 2
DianaB

DianaB

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yellow pectin arrived yesterday so pâte de fruit à la gfron1 will be attempted today or tomorrow.  All fingers are crossed.  I've been married for over 30 years but only as a result of the discussion with my husband over this thread have I discovered that he likes these.  Much of my chocolate or patisserie creations are given to neighbours because we are both people who only have to be in the same room as such to pile on weight.  As this will be a small first batch the neighbour might not get a taste (if indeed I manage to produce something edible...).  

 

Edited by DianaB (log)
  • Like 1
DianaB

DianaB

Posted
Posted
On 17 May 2016 at 8:51 PM, gfron1 said:

Okay, I have a better understanding of what your situation is. First off - the guy who sold you the pectin doesn't know what he's talking about. Its not a matter of which is best, its a matter of which is correct for the job. NH is for glazing pastries. Go get the right stuff. Its not that expensive and it'll be worth it. 

 

Here's what you're going to do:

1. Take as many black currants as you have and add 60 ml water. Process in the blender with about 20g more or less of sugar. Process really well and run through a strainer. I like texture in my PDF so I would use a course strainer so I can get some pulp, but if you prefer more refined use a finer holed sieve. End up with 200 g black currant puree. This is a small batch that I think will give you about a loaf pan of final product.

 

2. Combine 22 g sugar with 8.5 g yellow pectin (whisk with a fork); when the puree is warm to the touch (not hot), add the sugar/pectin mixture and whisk very well so no lumps form. Whisk/stir for 3 minutes. Now add 200 g granulated sugar in three additions, whisk/stirring really well each time. After the last addition, add 40 g glucose or corn syrup.

 

3. Stir consistently, but no need to be aggressive, until you reach 107ºC. While you're waiting for that to reach temp, line a loaf pan with foil. Lightly, very lightly, oil it with cooking spray or a neutral oil (canola, veg) and wipe out excess. 

 

4. When mixture hits 107ºC add 2.5 ml combination of gin and lemon juice (meaning a combination of the two totals 2.5 ml). Remove the pan from the heat and pour the gin and juice into it and whisk quickly. Immediately, and carefully so you don't burn yourself, pour this mixture into the lined pan. Let it set for at least 3 hours and ideally overnight.

 

That's it. It really is easy. The two biggest cautions are 1. the pectin sugar mix which you already understand; and 2. don't panic and not cook it to 107º. Take multiple readings in various locations of your pan to get an accurate reading. If you're too low on the temp it will be sticky. If you're too high, it will be edible but too firm. 

 

5. Once its set, cut into squares. In a bowl add 125 g sugar with 20 g citric acid/tartaric acid or worst case, lemon zest. Toss the squares in the sugar mix and store in an airtight container. Let us know how it goes.

 

[note: pros, I think you'll see why I suggested some of the things I did to accommodate her pantry and equipment. Not ideal but we're not worrying about shelf life and such.]

 

First attempt now setting.  I had 240g Blackcurrant purée after processing the currants with sugar and water and straining as @gfron1 advised and so scaled the other ingredients accordingly.  The pectin/sugar mix dissolved nicely with no clumps, as did the sugar added later.

 

I over estimated the quantity of the cooked mass when it was still in the pan so the eventual squares will be quite fine as a result but I don't think that will be a problem.  The pâte is already setting nicely, it was quite viscous from the pan and now, two hours on, it seems to be firming nicely.

 

  • Like 2
DianaB

DianaB

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, gfron1 said:

That's exciting! Recipes generally call for overnight, but I can usually tell if I blew it or nailed it within 30 minutes depending on room temp and humidity.

 

Its looking good but I'm going to resist cutting it until the morning.  I'm keeping it at room temperature, assuming that's right and no need to refrigerate?   Thanks so much for all your help with this!  

DianaB

DianaB

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, gfron1 said:

don't refirgerate because of the moisture. Room temp, uncovered unless you have a cat that's going to get at it.  

 

You clearly have a good understanding of our arrangements at home!  The pâte is sitting at room temp but arranged specifically so that we won't find paw prints on it in the morning...  Not directly covered but (I hope) inaccessible to felines.

 

What do you use to cut the pâte?  I'm guessing a warmed knife might do the job?  

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