Home Made Ice Cream (2015– )

[paulraphael]

I like commercial mint ice cream, too, but I think of it as a particular mint flavor—mouth wash or candy canes. I like candy canes! But they don't taste like mint from the garden. And candy cane flavor is really easy to get—just throw in some mint extract or mint oil. 

 

My project over the last few years has been capturing all the dimensions of a flavor ingredient. I want to get all those bright and fresh garden mint flavors, just like I want to get all the nuances of single-origin coffees and chocolates. We're used to ice cream that has a generic coffee ice cream flavor, or a generic chocolate ice cream flavor, or a generic mint extract flavor. 

 

 

[paulraphael]

Re: lavender—I haven't tried it yet. We've got a lavender plant, so I've been meaning to. I think it will be a tricky one to get right, because of the soap issue. You can't use too much. Cardamom is similar, but I've got a pretty high threshold for cardamom flavor, and that's really easy to get into ice cream. Lavender might be kind of delicate, in addition to being easy to overdo.

[beauxeault]

20 hours ago, weinoo said:

Make soap.

I'm a little unclear about how to best incorporate the soap into the ice cream. Would I need extra thickener? How long should I cook it?

Edited September 16, 2020 by beauxeault
left out a couple of words (log)

[beauxeault]

That, by the way, was also a joke.

 

Since it may not be obvious.

[paulraphael]

Soap is a really good emulsifier. It would would be a popular ice cream ingredient, if it didn't taste like soap.

[AAQuesada]

On 9/15/2020 at 12:19 PM, beauxeault said:

 

I'd be interested in your thoughts about best methods for using lavender.

 

I think there are recipes online for Salt and Straw's Honey Lavender ice cream.  It's amazing to me how many of their odd ball flavors actually work. It's pretty good.

[rascali]

I haven't gotten around to fussing with mint flavor in ice cream yet, but from my extraction experience I can suggest a couple of avenues for the home scientist to pursue in quest of something other than straight high-test mint oil.

 

A simple method would be to layer fresh mint leaves with your powdered sugar in a sealed environment and heat gently to express the volatile terpenes to permeate the sugar. This will be a subtle essence and might not correspond to what is normally considered mint flavor. Herbal, florals and menthol flavors might predominate. 

 

For those who really like to play hard, make up an ice bath with dry ice and alcohol and chill some Everclear 190, to which you would add your mint leaves. Stir for a minute or two, then strain and evaporate the leachate until an appropriate strength. This method will pull more oil and leave a stronger mint flavor, which you can vary with the length of wash. This will be a clear solution, if green is your goal do room temp, but you'll lose complexity.

Of course, wear gloves and eye protection.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

If I were attempting a mint extraction I'd use an iSi, ethanol, and nitrous oxide.  Then concentrate with a rotovap.  I do not yet have a rotovap.

 

[paulraphael]

2 hours ago, rascali said:

For those who really like to play hard, make up an ice bath with dry ice and alcohol and chill some Everclear 190, to which you would add your mint leaves. Stir for a minute or two, then strain and evaporate the leachate until an appropriate strength. This method will pull more oil and leave a stronger mint flavor, which you can vary with the length of wash. This will be a clear solution, if green is your goal do room temp, but you'll lose complexity.

Of course, wear gloves and eye protection.

 

 

Dave Arnold has cracked the nut of mint flavor in cocktails, also with cryogenics—in his version, liquid nitrogen and a vita-prep. I haven't found a way to translate this into ice cream, even if I had LN2. 

 

I'm curious about your thinking with the cryo-alchohol. Have you done this?

[paulraphael]

3 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

If I were attempting a mint extraction I'd use an iSi, ethanol, and nitrous oxide.  Then concentrate with a rotovap.  I do not yet have a rotovap.

 

 

The only word I'm reading is "yet."

[weinoo]

Just make Green Dragon and call it a day.

[ccp900]

22 hours ago, beauxeault said:

I'm a little unclear about how to best incorporate the soap into the ice cream. Would I need extra thickener? How long should I cook it?

Best use an immersion blender....add more emulsifiers and stay away from safeguard the flavor profile isn’t worth the extra cost

[ccp900]

I came upon an interesting article or study and the conclusion was cooking at low temp long time and high temp short time had minimal effects on body and texture.  The more substantial factor on body and texture was the method of freezing..  

 

 

[paulraphael]

5 minutes ago, ccp900 said:

I came upon an interesting article or study and the conclusion was cooking at low temp long time and high temp short time had minimal effects on body and texture.  The more substantial factor on body and texture was the method of freezing..  

 

 

 

How much effect is going to depend on the quantity of milk solids, and also their starting condition. If you're making a typical home recipe that has no added milk solids, and your milk is ultra-pasteurized, there won't be many proteins and they'll have already been cooked past what you'd want. So monkeying with your lower-temp cooking times will be a bit futile.

 

Re: soap in ice cream ... don't forget the advantages of easy cleanup.

Edited September 17, 2020 by paulraphael (log)

[ccp900]

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

 

How much effect is going to depend on the quantity of milk solids, and also their starting condition. If you're making a typical home recipe that has no added milk solids, and your milk is ultra-pasteurized, there won't be many proteins and they'll have already been cooked past what you'd want. So monkeying with your lower-temp cooking times will be a bit futile.

 

Re: soap in ice cream ... don't forget the advantages of easy cleanup.

Here’s the link paul

 

https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(43)92691-8/pdf

[paulraphael]

3 hours ago, ccp900 said:

Here’s the link paul

 

https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(43)92691-8/pdf

 

That's an interesting old study. I actually had a copy in my pile of digital papers. It's one of the more thorough published papers on this topic—along with some of the earlier papers that it tries to refute.

 

It's important to consider specificity in science. This paper looked for specific effects under four different combinations of time and temperature. The earlier papers that came to different conclusions were looking at somewhat different effects, and were looking at different combinations of time and temperature. It's not surprising that they came to different conclusions. I pasteurize at 75°C for 30 to 45 minutes; this is outside the range looked at by these researchers.

 

Commercial ice cream manufacturers have become quite sophisticated at manipulating time and temperature. Jenni Britton Bauer uses protein denaturization to get custard-like textures without eggs. Haagen Dazs uses it to make retail ice cream without stabilizers. There are many possibilities. 

 

The sad part is that most of the ice cream-specific research has been done by manufacturers and is proprietary. Haagen Dazs publish in science journals; they keep secrets. Britton-Bauer said she figured it out with the help of some hints from university researchers—probably ones who had worked on commercial projects.

[ccp900]

4 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

That's an interesting old study. I actually had a copy in my pile of digital papers. It's one of the more thorough published papers on this topic—along with some of the earlier papers that it tries to refute.

 

It's important to consider specificity in science. This paper looked for specific effects under four different combinations of time and temperature. The earlier papers that came to different conclusions were looking at somewhat different effects, and were looking at different combinations of time and temperature. It's not surprising that they came to different conclusions. I pasteurize at 75°C for 30 to 45 minutes; this is outside the range looked at by these researchers.

 

Commercial ice cream manufacturers have become quite sophisticated at manipulating time and temperature. Jenni Britton Bauer uses protein denaturization to get custard-like textures without eggs. Haagen Dazs uses it to make retail ice cream without stabilizers. There are many possibilities. 

 

The sad part is that most of the ice cream-specific research has been done by manufacturers and is proprietary. Haagen Dazs publish in science journals; they keep secrets. Britton-Bauer said she figured it out with the help of some hints from university researchers—probably ones who had worked on commercial projects.

Wonderful hobby we happened to take interest in. Who knew making ice cream was this involved hehehehehe

Edited September 18, 2020 by ccp900 (log)

[weinoo]

9 hours ago, ccp900 said:

Wonderful hobby we happened to take interest in. Who knew making ice cream was this involved hehehehehe

 

@paulraphael ?

[paulraphael]

Making ice cream's easy. The hard part is getting it to do what you want it to do.

[ccp900]

7 hours ago, paulraphael said:

Making ice cream's easy. The hard part is getting it to do what you want it to do.

Which for me is the fun thing about it....obviously second to eating it

[weinoo]

So Significant Eater spots these “baby” bananas on the counter. She loathes regular bananas. She jests: “Wow. Are you making Bananas Foster with those?” Wasn’t planning to, but what the fuck. Ice cream was already on hand. Madagascar bourbon vanilla and George Howell coffee Philadelphia-style ice creams made Saturday. Yesterday - Bananas Foster.

 

[ccp900]

On 9/28/2020 at 7:56 PM, weinoo said:

So Significant Eater spots these “baby” bananas on the counter. She loathes regular bananas. She jests: “Wow. Are you making Bananas Foster with those?” Wasn’t planning to, but what the fuck. Ice cream was already on hand. Madagascar bourbon vanilla and George Howell coffee Philadelphia-style ice creams made Saturday. Yesterday - Bananas Foster.

 

Looks amazing man

[JoNorvelleWalker]

No new information but I must put in another mention of Rose's chocolate.  Three batches so far.  With a couple of my tweaks to the recipe, it remains the finest ice cream I have eaten.

 

I've also made her blueberry, good but too much fat on the palate; and coconut, OK but not really worth repeating.

 

[Luke]

On 10/8/2020 at 4:45 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

No new information but I must put in another mention of Rose's chocolate.  Three batches so far.  With a couple of my tweaks to the recipe, it remains the finest ice cream I have eaten.

 

 

+1 for Roses Chocolate Ice Cream! What tweaks did you make? I have found her other ice creams not so great, too sweet for my tastes. I do understand most Americans like Ice Cream on the sweeter side.

 

I've just made a batch of silky smooth roasted hazelnut paste in the wet grinder and now I'm pulling together a Roasted Hazelnut Ice Cream recipe....

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, Luke said:

 

+1 for Roses Chocolate Ice Cream! What tweaks did you make? I have found her other ice creams not so great, too sweet for my tastes. I do understand most Americans like Ice Cream on the sweeter side.

 

I've just made a batch of silky smooth roasted hazelnut paste in the wet grinder and now I'm pulling together a Roasted Hazelnut Ice Cream recipe....

 

I cook all the mix except for the chocolate, and I use real cream, not ultra pasteurized.  I don't add expresso powder (though I might add some if I had it).  Importantly I homogenize the mix before blast chilling.

 

I'd love to see what you come up with for hazelnut.