The Bread Topic (2015-2016)

[Franci]

Maybe you can already see from the picture.

Left is Caputo rimacinata, right Bob's red mill semolina 

Edited May 17, 2016 by Franci (log)

[Anna N]

@Franci

 

I have to ask. Can you mill the coarser semolina into flour?  Would it be the same?  

[Franci]

Anna, I tried in the past with thicker cornmeal and didn't get a good result. I think it's a lot of pain.

I am sure you can buy somewhere. From google I got that some people were able to buy from Bulk Barn, I don't know if that helps. You might want to check also the indian aisle, I think most of the time what is called atta flour is a finely milled durum. But read the package carefully.

 

Edit to add: I'd also email Caputo and ask if they have a distributor in Canada and go from there.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Franci (log)

[Anna N]

 

@Franci

 

Against all odds!  Kerry offered to take me on a search this morning but I declined and said we could look for it another time. I have to confess that she suggested Bulk Barn and I pooh-poohed that idea.   She also suggested Atta flour from the Indian store.  I pooh-poohed that too.  Silly me!  I should know better. Cannot think of a single time that Kerry has led me in the wrong direction.  I shall be eating humble pie for quite some time.  But we went into Fortino's for other groceries and I wanted some unbleached all-purpose flour and lo and behold look what we found!  Thanks for answering all my questions. 

 

 

 

[Norm Matthews]

I have been wanted to do a pumpernickle bread for a while but didn't want to pay KA prices for pumpernickle flour, plus shipping that would nearly double their high price, and no one carries it around here.  When I did the Swedish Rye bread, I noticed in the Farm Journal cookbook, a pumpernickle recipe that didn't use pumpernickle flour. It looked good. It used whole wheat, and rye flours plus molasses and mashed potatoes.  I made it and found that if I hadn't had a large capacity bowl, it would have been too small and there was a point where the mixer was straining-and it's a pretty strong mixer.  Well it wasn't dark like you'd expect pumpernickle bread to be and I thought it was absolutely bland in taste.  I took pictures but since I didn't like it at all, I won't post them.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Norm Matthews (log)

[Anna N]

14 minutes ago, Norm Matthews said:

I have been wanted to do a pumpernickle bread for a while but didn't want to pay KA prices for pumpernickle flour, plus shipping that would nearly double their high price, and no one carries it around here.  When I did the Swedish Rye bread, I noticed in the Farm Journal cookbook, a pumpernickle recipe that didn't use pumpernickle flour. It looked good. It used whole wheat, and rye flours plus molasses and mashed potatoes.  I made it and found that if I hadn't had a large capacity bowl, it would have been too small and there was a point where the mixer was straining-and it's a pretty strong mixer.  Well it wasn't dark like you'd expect pumpernickle bread to be and I thought it was absolutely bland in taste.  I took pictures but since I didn't like it at all, I won't post them.

 

Norm,

There is a pumpernickel bread in my future. Pumpernickel flour is not easy to come by here but I knew I had some in my freezer.  I recalled a pumpernickel bread I made some years back which called for both molasses and cocoa powder and was very dark and delicious. I see in Sarah Black's book (One Dough, Ten Breads) which I just acquired, there is a recipe that sounds very close to what I recall. There is a difference in that she suggests toasting the pumpernickel flour before use.  I am pretty sure that you have tried to get pumpernickel flour in a local health food store but if not you might want to give that a try.  

[Kerry Beal]

Anna - pull out Secrets of A Jewish Baker - pumpernickel colour is burnt sugar.

 

Here are the ingredients

 

• 1 cup warm water
• 1 pkg active dry yeast
• 1 cup rye sour
• 1 cup altus
• 4 tbsp pumpernickel colour
• 1 cup pumpernickel flour dark rye
• 2 ½ cups common flour (2 1/2 to 3 1/2)
• 1 tbsp salt
• 1 tbsp caraway seed
• Cornstarch Solution
• 1 ¼ cups water
• 2 tbsp cornstarch
• Pumpernickel Colour
• 3 tbsp sugar
• 1 tbsp water
• ¼ cup boiling water

[Norm Matthews]

Anna, I looked for pumpernickle flour at both Trader Joe's and Whole foods. I will have to do a search to see where any local health food stores might be. I was going to add some cocoa powder to this bread if it wasn't looking dark enough but it was filling up my 7 qt bowl and getting so thick that I didn't want to play around with the recipe.  I will look for a pumpernickle bread recipe that used rye flour until or unless I can find the flour locally. 

[Anna N]

31 minutes ago, Norm Matthews said:

Anna, I looked for pumpernickle flour at both Trader Joe's and Whole foods. I will have to do a search to see where any local health food stores might be. I was going to add some cocoa powder to this bread if it wasn't looking dark enough but it was filling up my 7 qt bowl and getting so thick that I didn't want to play around with the recipe.  I will look for a pumpernickle bread recipe that used rye flour until or unless I can find the flour locally. 

I know there are plenty of recipes out there that just call for dark rye flour.  I also know that Bob's Red Mill makes the pumpernickel but I do believe they call it meal rather than flour. Good luck. 

[Norm Matthews]

I have looked on-line at local health food stores near here and no luck yet.  Dark rye flour is essentially the same thing as pumpernickle flour. Your recipe that toasts rye flour may come close to replicating a similar kind of flour. 

[cakewalk]

42 minutes ago, Norm Matthews said:

I have looked on-line at local health food stores near here and no luck yet.  Dark rye flour is essentially the same thing as pumpernickle flour. Your recipe that toasts rye flour may come close to replicating a similar kind of flour. 

Yes, dark rye flour is pumpernickel. (There is no pumpernickel plant!) A while ago I was reading about "real" pumpernickel bread, it is fascinating but I'm not ready to undertake it yet. It bakes for at least 12 hours in a slow oven, it's quite a production.This type of pumpernickel doesn't use anything to give it the dark color, it's from the flour and the long slow bake. 

[Norm Matthews]

2 hours ago, cakewalk said:

Yes, dark rye flour is pumpernickel. (There is no pumpernickel plant!) A while ago I was reading about "real" pumpernickel bread, it is fascinating but I'm not ready to undertake it yet. It bakes for at least 12 hours in a slow oven, it's quite a production.This type of pumpernickel doesn't use anything to give it the dark color, it's from the flour and the long slow bake. 

 This is what my Farm Journal Homeade Bread cookbook said about Pumpernickle bread.

 

"Named for Swiss Baker Pumper Nickel, who first made it to stretch the limited amount of flour during a wheat shortage.  You will notice that our recipe calls for corneal, mashed potatoes and whole wheat flour in addition to rye flour"

[Anna N]

Quoting Sarah Black in her book One Dough, Ten Breads:

 

There are several different types of rye flour: Light rye (or “white” rye) is milled from the endosperm only, with the bran and germ removed. Dark rye can be milled from the outer endosperm, where there is more pigmentation from the rye berry, or it can be 100 percent whole grain. Pumpernickel, the most well-known, is like whole wheat in that it contains the germ, the bran, and the endosperm and is dark and coarsely ground.

[Norm Matthews]

I opened the freezer this morning to take out some coffee and noticed a small brown paper bag which I didn't remember.  When I took out the contents, I discovered it was a small bag of Bob's Red Mill Dark Rye flour.  When I was driving around looking for pumpernickle flour, I found this at the second Whole Food store i went to, put it in the freezer and forgot about it.  I need to start taking some memory pills.

[Norm Matthews]

In my defense, feeble as it is, I bought half a dozen different flours that day and put them all in the freezer.

[Anna N]

1 minute ago, Norm Matthews said:

In my defense, feeble as it is, I bought half a dozen different flours that day and put them all in the freezer.

No worries. I knew my pumpernickel was in the freezer but was amazed to find both cake & pastry flour and some besan flour in there too!  Have wished I had both in the last few weeks. 

[Anna N]

 

 When I made pain de mie a day or so ago the recipe called for more dough than my own pan could handle. I threw the extra seven ounces into the refrigerator and decided to bake it today. Seven or eight ounces would really make the perfect size loaf for a singleton like me.  

[shain]

Wow, so much baking going on in the last few days.

@Shelby, It's funny, as I also made bagels this weekend, and after making them, I thought to myself that maybe next time I'll try to make round bagel-rolls for sake of streamlined shaping and having a different crust-to-crumb ratio. 
The bagels were pretty well, just not as crispy as I like, I'm not sure why, perhaps I've boiled them a little too long, I've heard it might lead to a less crisp and more chewy crust. Suggestions are welcomed.

[Norm Matthews]

Since Cassie has moved out, I have turned her cake decorating station into my bread making place.  After a disappointing effort to make some pumpernickel bread, I got some advice from some of you folks here as well as a recipe from Anna N.  I didn't use that recipe but gleaned some good information from it and used a recipe for one loaf from King Arthur Flour and here are the results from today. Yesterday, in anticipation of making this, I cooked some corned beef and we have been having sandwiches with  it and the bread today.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Norm Matthews (log)

[ElsieD]

Norm, I love that window nook, if that is the right name for it.  Is that a microwave stand your KA is on or some sort of kitchen portable cupboard?

[Norm Matthews]

ElsieD, I don't know what you should call it. Portable kitchen cupboard is a pretty accurate way to describe it. It is on wheels and has storage underneath.  The cutting board on top is rubber and makes a good place for kneading dough.

[Norm Matthews]

Elsie, in a further attempt to answer your question, here is a wider view of that end of the kitchen.  When we moved in, it was a breakfast  nook with the ceiling light coming down a lot lower and no storage in that end of the kitchen.  My son and Cassie built in the counter and cabinets for more storage.  There wasn't enough space to put all our stuff before then.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Norm Matthews (log)

[cakewalk]

This is from the Bouchon cookbook, cranberry-currant and walnut bread. Keller suggests either/or, but I always combine them. Here I used a combination of dried cherries and raisins with the walnuts. Made as one large boule instead of two batards. (There was a bit more than one kilo of dough.) I've made this before, it always turns out nicely. (Although I increase the salt.) Very good with cream cheese, even better with brie.

Edited May 20, 2016 by cakewalk
decrease size of photos (log)

[Anna N]

 

 

 Despite my ineptitude it was lovely Bread.

 

 My second attempt in as many days to make the semolina bread from One Dough, Ten Breads.  In my first attempt the dough stuck to the couche (a floured tea towel). As I attempted to free it, it lost its shape and its "oomph".  I made a second attempt but ran out of energy and had to put it in the fridge overnight. This would not have harmed it but then I left it in the oven too long because I didn't hear the timer go off. I will make a 3rd attempt but it will be days from now. 

Edited May 21, 2016 by Anna N
To add photographs of crumb. (log)

[FrogPrincesse]

I haven't baked bread in a long time but managed to produce something decent last night - a no-knead bread with mostly white flour and a little bit of whole wheat flour, cooked in a Dutch oven.