Cuisinart Combo Steam/Convection Oven (Part 2)

[rotuts]

very interesting points

 

for those of us with a Combi-Oven  i.e. the CSB :

 

if you've compared results, personally  steam vs no steam :

 

aside from lets say cookies  [ ever tried them int eh CSB stream or no steam ]

 

and that sort of thing 

 

have you found  Dry Cooking superior to Steam cooking ?

 

that, BTW  is a neutral question.

 

toast does not count   as its  'dry' but provides its own moisture  

 

there has to be something Dry Cooking is better at 

 

in the Combi-Oven  please.

 

 

[gfweb]

Here's the experiment to do.

 

Take two pieces of steak of equal dimensions. Do not pan sear first

Weigh before and after cooking with steam vs no steam to determine moisture loss.

Test time to MR by checking temp q 5'

Cut in half after cooking to see the profile of the cooked meat.

 

What temp?  I'd say 325 with no convection.

 

My prediction...less weight loss in steam...quicker to temp in steam...perhaps more overcooked meat near the surface with steam...and given the lowish temp better browning with non-steam.

Edited July 26, 2016 by gfweb (log)

[rotuts]

well  nice

 

well ab easier study was done  Years Ago :

 

here it is

 

@Unpopular Poet  

 

 

not to say your study fine 

 

this is a very tender steak

 

not so much for SV

 

I do understand the CSB thread is Long

 

that being said

 

Art is Long

 

Art is Very Long  notebooks Good

 

just saying

 

no disrespect in any way

 

thiik  """ Long """

 

[gfweb]

Looks like a nice steak,Rotuts But not exactly comparing dry vs wet heat results (if I understand what was done) .

[Shelby]

Did a 3 1/2 lb. chicken last night.  It was in a wet brine for a couple of days.  I took it out and patted it dry--let it sit out for a while to get maximum dryness.  Sprinkled it with lemon pepper and into the steam boy it went.  I did what the book said--50 mins at 450F. 18 mins. in it was already scaring me--the top was getting super close to burning.  I couldn't take it so I slid some foil over it.  Chicken turned out lovely.  Just like using my 

rotisserie only I didn't have to lug it up from the basement AND FAR EASIER to clean.  I have the steam cleaning going as we speak.

 

I might have picked a few pieces of skin off before dinner.

 

[rotuts]

remember, Steam cooking is faster than dry.

 

so over cooking, esp delicate items like Fish require a bit more vigilance  /

[JoNorvelleWalker]

@Shelby it looks like you wrap your pan in foil?

 

[Shelby]

6 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

@Shelby it looks like you wrap your pan in foil?

 

Yep.  I like as little mess as possible.

[Thanks for the Crepes]

Don't have a CSO, but I really dislike hard cleanups as well, and equally dislike spending money on aluminum foil, not to mention the wastage factor.

 

My favorite meat roasting pan out of the many I have is an aluminum one. It gets splattered with grease from roasting meat in a conventional oven, and that grease polymerizes and provides a protective coating that allows it to goes through the dishwasher without a lot of babying, like steel ones need to prevent corrosion. They need to be oiled and seasoned occasionally to prevent rusting, especially, the undersides, and the curled lips of the top rims. They all become pretty non-stick eventually, and clean up easily after a presoak in hot water. Many times, I deglaze the baking pan with water boiled in the microwave and save the drippings and fat and freeze them for later use in stocks and gravies. I can't understand why the drippings of even a conventionally raised bird taste of more bird essence than the bird itself, but I swear it's true.

 

If you have an aluminum pie plate, or some other aluminum pan that would fit in the constricting confines of the CSO, that could eliminate the expense and waste of the sheeted aluminum. Now, finding a rack to fit, which of course, puts your meat higher toward the top heat element might be a challenge. Maybe one for the Instant Pot, that many of you have would work? 

 

Also, I am a huge fan of the turning of the bird while roasting. I got the idea from "The Joy of Cooking" book I own. Can't find a link, but it's really a simple concept. You season your bird as desired and place it on a V-rack in your roasting pan. This is probably not practical in the CSO, but Joy says if you don't have a V-rack to prop it up with wadded up foil. (I am aware this defeats the purpose of saving expense and waste. 

 

You place the chix on its side, with one of it's legs downward. Make sure you don't have a wing tip poking down through the rack, as I did the first time. It will burn. After 25 minutes for a 4 pound chix, flip onto its other side, and let it roast another 25 minutes, again for 4 pound bird. Increase time by 3 minutes for each additional pound. After that, flip the bird onto its back with breast side up and cook another 15 or so minutes until temp registers 170 to 175 F (76 to 79 C) in thickest part of thigh. I have always gotten a lower temp reading on the breast meat, which is exactly what you want with a roast chix, with this method. 

 

It seems it might be ideal for the CSO where it's really too close to the top heating element. It's perhaps not as good as rotisserie, but I have had my very best results in a conventional oven with it.

 

I take a long meat fork and poke it into the opening near the neck and a long handled stainless spoon and poke it into the rear cavity to do the flipping. Joy does not recommend doing this with heavier birds like turkey, but I have defied them, with a smaller one (about 12 pounds/5.4 kilos) to very good results. I despise dry turkey breast.

[rotuts]

I sometimes use parchment paper in the CSB, not foil.

 

however, until there is sugar involved at a fairly high temp, I just use the pan that came with the CSB>

 

quite a while ago I did CkThighs in the CSB and got a pan with black gunk on it and thought what a mess.

 

the CSB was outside at the time  ( temporarily, it always comes in after is cools down ) than

 

thought to try the steam-clean feature with that pan inside.

 

worked like a charm.  the gunk just slid off, almost.

 

i have not done a while chicken, but my take is that people like the results.

 

the CSB is a major investment for sure, and the price jumps all over the place.

 

but for a satisfaction / dollar   it can't be beat.  granted is has a few lilmitaions.

 

one is that you'd wish you have a full sized combi-oven   in addition to the CSB

 

you would still use the CSB a lot, as you might use a BVXL in place of a full sized electric oven

 

 

[lindag]

The price right now at Amazon is $258 but if you keep checking you may find it for a good bit less.  I got mine about a month ago for $218 with free (Prime) shipping.  That was the lowest price I've seen.

[Shelby]

I learned my lesson from not covering the pan that came with my Breville.  I ended up ordering a new one and a new toast crumb catcher due to how icky it got.  I could NOT get it clean like I like it.  So, I really don't consider using a piece of foil now and again wasteful because it saves my time (and money due to not having to buy a new tray lol).  But, everyone has different methods  

[cyalexa]

Is anyone else noticing discoloration of the rack that stays in the oven? Mine is sort of a copper color in some areas and feels a little rough where it is discolored. A vigorous scrub will smooth it out but not change the color. 

[rotuts]

I don't know what your refer to as a rack that stays in the oven.   

 

can you take a pic ?

 

thanks

 

do you mean the crumb tray ?

Edited July 28, 2016 by rotuts (log)

[cyalexa]

The rack the pan would sit on, as opposed to the rack that goes inside the pan. I can take a pic later although I am not a good photographer and just use my phone.

[blue_dolphin]

I believe @cyalexa is asking about the "oven rack" that slides into the oven and can be positioned higher or lower for broiling or baking.

I admit that my oven rack had acquired a certain ...um...patina but this query inspired me to attack it with a Brillo pad and it's now back to its (almost) original shiny chrome finish.

Edited July 28, 2016 by blue_dolphin (log)

[rotuts]

my rack looks fine.  its clearly been used a lot

 

if you're not happy with how your rack is doing

 

call them   Ive had very good experience with their customer service.

 

I was unhappy with the fineness of the initial tray.  when the new version came out with an improved version, I called them

 

at that time they didn't have the new pan, but sent me a replacement of the original.  you need to find in the back where the serial number is

 

stamped that all.

 

BTW  I never thought to keep his rack in the over on steam clean , but Ive done the pan.  I hope I remember next time

[JoNorvelleWalker]

For the last week or so I've been using sheets of precut parchment to line my pan.  This is the parchment from Worthy Liners that I mentioned previously.  I've noticed the Worthy paper is not quite as non-stick as the Reynolds parchment that comes on a roll.  This may be good or bad depending on with what Reynolds coats their paper.

 

I wrap a Chicago Metallic quarter sheet pan I have in aluminum foil.  A pan that of course does not fit in the Cuisinart.  I hadn't thought to use foil with the Cuisinart pan till I saw @Shelby doing so.  I'm thinking it's not necessary for me, as the Cuisinart pan, unlike the Chicago Metallic, cleans up so easily.  My other Chicago Metallic pans which have not been wrapped in foil develop the "protective coating" mentioned by @Thanks for the Crepes.  They also warp.

 

Nonetheless, were I cooking a whole normal sized chicken I think I'd drag the rotisserie from the bedroom.

 

Still refining my methods.

 

[Anna N]

15 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

For the last week or so I've been using sheets of precut parchment to line my pan.  This is the parchment from Worthy Liners that I mentioned previously.  I've noticed the Worthy paper is not quite as non-stick as the Reynolds parchment that comes on a roll.  This may be good or bad depending on with what Reynolds coats their paper.

 

I wrap a Chicago Metallic quarter sheet pan I have in aluminum foil.  A pan that of course does not fit in the Cuisinart.  I hadn't thought to use foil with the Cuisinart pan till I saw @Shelby doing so.  I'm thinking it's not necessary for me, as the Cuisinart pan, unlike the Chicago Metallic, cleans up so easily.  My other Chicago Metallic pans which have not been wrapped in foil develop the "protective coating" mentioned by @Thanks for the Crepes.  They also warp.

 

Nonetheless, were I cooking a whole normal sized chicken I think I'd drag the rotisserie from the bedroom.

 

Still refining my methods.

 

 The pan for the CSO does indeed clean up very easily nevertheless I find there are times when parchment is appropriate especially when I am roasting some vegetables. And times when foil is appropriate especially when I am baking sweet potatoes.   I put the sweet potatoes on the rack but they leak sticky black stuff and a foil lined pan seems apropos.  

Edited July 28, 2016 by Anna N (log)

[gfweb]

I foil both CSO and BSO pans.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

4 minutes ago, Anna N said:

 The pan for the CSO does indeed clean up very easily nevertheless I find there are times when parchment is appropriate especially when I am roasting some vegetables. And times when foil is appropriate especially when I am baking sweet potatoes.   I put the sweet potatoes on the rack but they leak sticky black stuff and a foil lined pan seems apropos.  

 

 

That's why I purchased more than one size of parchment.  For sweet potatoes and other things that leak I use a 12 inch by 12 inch parchment sheet with the edges folded up an inch.

 

[Anna N]

1 minute ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

That's why I purchased more than one size of parchment.  For sweet potatoes and other things that leak I use a 12 inch by 12 inch parchment sheet with the edges folded up an inch.

 

Very wise.  I find white potatoes cooked in duck fat brown more evenly on parchment than on the bare  pan or on the foil but that may be just my imagination. 

[rotuts]

I use commercial rolls of parchment, which are almost always larger than the pans i line.

 

so they tend to be folded up at the edges as JNW has suggested.

 

I also uses parchment when i bake in 13 x 9 inch said-to-be-disposable aluminum pans for brownies in the BVXL.

 

folded as mentioned above.

 

when I take the brownies to the library, they lift them out and give me back the pans  on the spot.

 

otherwise Id never see the pans again  i have not lost a pan yet.   some look a little battle hardened.  the brownies are then cut on the parchement

 

but not in the pans

 

from time to time I think Id hunt for a few of these aluminum pans for the CSB , as large as possible etc

 

never gotten anywhere with this project.

 

BTW  the first person that does a 'steam-clean' with the removable rack :  please report here.

 

way to hot here for a SteamClean, worse, taking the CSB  outside.

[Anna N]

25 minutes ago, rotuts said:

I use commercial rolls of parchment, which are almost always larger than the pans i line.

 

so they tend to be folded up at the edges as JNW has suggested.

 

I also uses parchment when i bake in 13 x 9 inch said-to-be-disposable aluminum pans for brownies in the BVXL.

 

folded as mentioned above.

 

when I take the brownies to the library, they lift them out and give me back the pans  on the spot.

 

otherwise Id never see the pans again  i have not lost a pan yet.   some look a little battle hardened.  the brownies are then cut on the parchement

 

but not in the pans

 

from time to time I think Id hunt for a few of these aluminum pans for the CSB , as large as possible etc

 

never gotten anywhere with this project.

 

BTW  the first person that does a 'steam-clean' with the removable rack :  please report here.

 

way to hot here for a SteamClean, worse, taking the CSB  outside.

When I use the steam clean function I put everything in except the crumb tray. 

[FauxPas]

I frequently use foil or parchment to line the CSO pan. I hate sticking, clean-up, etc. 

 

I keep meaning to spray a bit of vinegar in the CSO before steam-cleaning, I think it might help a bit with cleaning, restoring the shine, etc. Has anyone tried this?