Cooking with The Food Lab by J. Kenji López-Alt

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I've been working on a few things.  I finally got a good smashed burger.  And tonight I again made chicken Marsala.  Inexplicably I omitted the flour, but thankfully the result was by no means diminished.

[Okanagancook]

Got my book yesterday.  Some interesting reading coming up.  The potato salad description adding the vinegar, salt and sugar in the water is something I would like to try.  I visited his website and there is an Erata section which I looked at and compared my book.  I must have a second printing because all the errors were fixed EXCEPT for the quick waffles on page 157.  According to the Erata page, it should be 1/2 cup buttermilk and not 1 1/2 cups.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I seem to have lost the technique.  My last two smashed burgers were burnt and inedible (though I ate them anyway).  I'm coming to think my electric stove is hotter that what most people would call "medium" or "high".  From memory I recall he says to heat the pan on medium and then up the heat to high when the ground beef is added.

 

Instant charcoal.

 

My copy is first edition.

 

[Okanagancook]

I made the vegetable soup.  Meh.  Pretty ordinary.

Also made the coleslaw and we did not like the lack of crunch that results from pre-salting the cabbage so the salad is not watery.  

[JoNorvelleWalker]

45 minutes ago, Okanagancook said:

I made the vegetable soup.  Meh.  Pretty ordinary.

Also made the coleslaw and we did not like the lack of crunch that results from pre-salting the cabbage so the salad is not watery.  

 

I too like my coleslaw crunchy, and prefer to dress the cabbage at the last moment.  My coleslaw is not watery.  But I've found enough of use in The Food Lab to make the purchase more than worthwhile for me.  On a weight basis the book is a real bargain.

 

[gfweb]

Completely agree about not salting the cabbage.

[Thanks for the Crepes]

I completely love reading Kenji's work, but have had some disappointing results from some of his recipes. I have also had problems with his recommendations for high heat with my electric stove elements, like @JoNorvelleWalker. I tried this, and the first one was instant charcoal, like she said. I reduced the heat, and had better results, but still nothing to match his commentary or photos in the linked article. I was hoping for a magic solution to making pizza without running the A/C against the oven in our brutal summers. I will still read his stuff, but I'm going to take the recipes with a grain of salt. I also won't be buying his book, but I wish him much success with it. He is a passionate and interesting food writer.

[IndyRob]

17 hours ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

I completely love reading Kenji's work, but have had some disappointing results from some of his recipes.

 

I agree.  I really do like him, but I think sometimes he solves the problem for himself and doesn't go through the repeatability stuff that might've been expected at ATK.  I was excited to learn of his 2-minute mayo technique, but like quite a few of his commenters, I had about a 50% failure rate.  I eventually figured it out and wanted to post my findings on his site, but they shut down comments after a certain amount of time.  Anyway, it turns out he was right, it does work,  but it's not as foolproof as he made it out to be.

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by IndyRob (log)

[Martin Fisher]

17 hours ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

I'm going to take the recipes with a grain of salt.

 

Yep!!!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Err on the side of less salt...I'm cooking from the book tonight.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I am guessing Lopez-Alt is not a super taster.  I made chicken marsala tonight.  I salted and air dried half a chicken but added no salt to the sauce.  None, not at all.  It came out just right.

 

Dinner was chicken marsalla, baguette, salad of spring mix with balsamic vinegar.  I also dressed some of the greens with a tad of olive oil but just vinegar alone was better.

 

To give credit where credit is due, this was excellent.

 

 

Also to give credit:  the "chicken" was in reality a locally raised poussin from Griggstown Quail Farm, not an industrial Cornish game hen as sad circumstances often dictate:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggstown_Quail_Farm

 

 

No brown diseased spots, no little feathers sticking out.  These poussin are not purveyed by the pound.

 

[Okanagancook]

Two minute Mayo:  I too have had some failures with that method but when it works, it's brilliant.

Foolproof Soft Boiled Eggs:  I must be a fool because these were totally not what was promised.  Page 101:  Chose the 6 minute egg:  Description was "white is opaque, firm all the way through; yolk is warm and starting to firm up at the edges".  I used cold eggs from the fridge and followed all the directions.  The eggs were farm eggs, probably large sized.  The white was slimy and runny.  The yolk was just warm.  I had to put the two unopened ones we had on the table back in the water for another four minutes and still the white was a little underdone for my tastes...less slimy but still not soft firm.

Sheesh.

[Shalmanese]

6 hours ago, Okanagancook said:

Two minute Mayo:  I too have had some failures with that method but when it works, it's brilliant.

Foolproof Soft Boiled Eggs:  I must be a fool because these were totally not what was promised.  Page 101:  Chose the 6 minute egg:  Description was "white is opaque, firm all the way through; yolk is warm and starting to firm up at the edges".  I used cold eggs from the fridge and followed all the directions.  The eggs were farm eggs, probably large sized.  The white was slimy and runny.  The yolk was just warm.  I had to put the two unopened ones we had on the table back in the water for another four minutes and still the white was a little underdone for my tastes...less slimy but still not soft firm.

Sheesh.

 

There's something wrong with your procedure because an egg shouldn't take 10 minutes to cook to soft boil. Make sure you're following the steps listed exactly.

[Anna N]

@Okanagancook

 

 I would give this method another chance.  It has worked for me on many occasions. However, my idea of a soft boiled egg and his differ considerably. Six minutes gives me eggs just as he describes but I prefer my soft-boiled eggs to be much runnier. I like his result when I want an egg for a bowl of ramen.

 

I wonder how many eggs you were attempting to cook and in what size of saucepan and if this had an effect on your result. 

[Okanagancook]

I did a repeat this am.  My 4 eggs weighed between 65 and 67 grams.  I measured 2 quarts of water and put the water in a pot where the water came to within an inch of the top.  Brought it to a boil over high heat.  Took the pot off the heat put the 4 eggs in for 6 minutes with the lid on the pot.  The yolks were perfect but again, the whites were slimmy and  most certainly not "White is opaque, firm all the way through".  So we left the other 3 eggs in there for another 2 minutes for a total of 8 minutes.  The whites were better and the yolk was getting firm.  But the whites were not as he describes in his 7 minute egg "White is fully cooked and as hard as that of a hard-boiled egg".  

 

Hum, so not sure what to think.  As Anna N said above, one's idea of a soft boiled egg can differ and I am very sensitive to whites that are undercooked.  I'd rather my yolk a little over for the sake of a non-slimmy white.

 

When I make hard boiled eggs I use this method:  Put the eggs in the pan, cover by two inches with water and put the lid on.  Bring to the boil.  Take off the heat and after 10 minutes plunge into ice water.  The hard boiled eggs are perfect with the yolk only just done.

[Anna N]

1 hour ago, Okanagancook said:

I did a repeat this am.  My 4 eggs weighed between 65 and 67 grams.  I measured 2 quarts of water and put the water in a pot where the water came to within an inch of the top.  Brought it to a boil over high heat.  Took the pot off the heat put the 4 eggs in for 6 minutes with the lid on the pot.  The yolks were perfect but again, the whites were slimmy and  most certainly not "White is opaque, firm all the way through".  So we left the other 3 eggs in there for another 2 minutes for a total of 8 minutes.  The whites were better and the yolk was getting firm.  But the whites were not as he describes in his 7 minute egg "White is fully cooked and as hard as that of a hard-boiled egg".  

 

Hum, so not sure what to think.  As Anna N said above, one's idea of a soft boiled egg can differ and I am very sensitive to whites that are undercooked.  I'd rather my yolk a little over for the sake of a non-slimmy white.

 

When I make hard boiled eggs I use this method:  Put the eggs in the pan, cover by two inches with water and put the lid on.  Bring to the boil.  Take off the heat and after 10 minutes plunge into ice water.  The hard boiled eggs are perfect with the yolk only just done.

So I see where our methods differ.  For soft boiled eggs I do not put a lid on the pan but carefully watch to maintain a simmer. 

I follow exactly the same procedure as you for hard-boiled eggs and it works every time. 

[Okanagancook]

Anna N that's the usual way I do my soft boiled eggs also....but the Food Lab's method, if it works as well, would be easier especially if one has guests.  I'm going back to my simmer method.

[Anna N]

I see where we may be working at cross purposes. I just read the method in the book!   It calls for a lid.  I follow the one on the website which means no mention of a lid!   I guess I assumed, falsely, they were both the same.  Damn. 

[IndyRob]

12 hours ago, Okanagancook said:

I did a repeat this am.  My 4 eggs weighed between 65 and 67 grams.  I measured 2 quarts of water and put the water in a pot where the water came to within an inch of the top.  Brought it to a boil over high heat.  Took the pot off the heat put the 4 eggs in for 6 minutes with the lid on the pot.  The yolks were perfect but again, the whites were slimmy and  most certainly not "White is opaque, firm all the way through".  So we left the other 3 eggs in there for another 2 minutes for a total of 8 minutes.  The whites were better and the yolk was getting firm.  But the whites were not as he describes in his 7 minute egg "White is fully cooked and as hard as that of a hard-boiled egg".  

 

Hum, so not sure what to think.  As Anna N said above, one's idea of a soft boiled egg can differ and I am very sensitive to whites that are undercooked.  I'd rather my yolk a little over for the sake of a non-slimmy white.

 

When I make hard boiled eggs I use this method:  Put the eggs in the pan, cover by two inches with water and put the lid on.  Bring to the boil.  Take off the heat and after 10 minutes plunge into ice water.  The hard boiled eggs are perfect with the yolk only just done.

 

Just for the reference desk, I just weighed 3 "Large Eggs" and they were 61-63 grams (probably not enough to make a difference).  But 2 quarts of water?  6 minutes?

 

I don't have the book, but I assumed it was something similar to the latest ATK soft boil method I've seen.  This uses only a 1/2 inch of water and relies on steam.  Once a boil is achieved (not sure if a simmer is materially different), the eggs should go in, covered, for 6:30.  Given that steam is supposedly more energetic, It doesn't seem like 6 minutes could be enough for a submerged egg.

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by IndyRob (log)

[Okanagancook]

13 hours ago, IndyRob said:

 

 

It doesn't seem like 6 minutes could be enough for a submerged egg.

 

 

Exactly, it isn't enough time but that's what the book calls for.  On the first attempt I left three eggs in water for 8 minutes and still, the white wasn't set enough for me.

[btbyrd]

15 hours ago, IndyRob said:

Given that steam is supposedly more energetic, It doesn't seem like 6 minutes could be enough for a submerged egg.

 

In many cases, steaming actually takes more time to cook food to a target temperature than boiling does.

Edited April 24, 2016 by btbyrd (log)

[IndyRob]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 3:01 PM, btbyrd said:

 

In many cases, steaming actually takes more time to cook food to a target temperature than boiling does.

 

 

Can you elaborate?  I must admit to being a bit skeptical.  I've had the misfortune to burn myself both with boiling water and with steam and I must say that steam seems far worse.  I'm trying to think of some sort of mitigating factor like the barbeque stall, but that doesn't seem to apply.

[rotuts]

steam has to take longer.  its less dense than water, and is 212 F   energy density determines cooking time

 

what steaming does that water boing does not :  it mostly keeps the flavors of the items in question in those items, and not in the water

 

which becomes soup.

[pbear]

14 hours ago, IndyRob said:

 

I've had the misfortune to burn myself both with boiling water and with steam and I must say that steam seems far worse.  I'm trying to think of some sort of mitigating factor like the barbeque stall, but that doesn't seem to apply.

Looking in McGee, 2d edition at p.785, the cause of this phenomenon is condensation, i.e., your relatively cool arm extracting heat of fusion from the steam.  The same thing will be true initially for eggs.  Once the exterior gets hot, though, ISTM heat transfer will be via conduction, for which as I recall (sorry, don't have the reference) steam is only about 80% as efficient as water.  This came up, for example, in the sous vide thread apropos of combi ovens vs. circulator baths.

[IndyRob]

Well, rather than quoting stuff from Wikipedia which I probably oughtn't do, I decided to just Kenji it.  I got two very similar pots and put them on my stove, filled one with about 3" of water and the other with about 3/4".  I put an egg in each one, covered them, and let them go for exactly 6 minutes.  Then each was plunged into its own individual container filled with cold tap water.

 

I expected dramatic differences but didn't get them.  The differences, as far as I could tell, were extremely subtle, and perhaps a bit counter intuitive.  The yolk in the steamed egg seemed slightly more consistent in texture.  The boiled one had gelled a bit around the outer edge, but the rest seemed slightly more runny.  The white of the steamed one was perfect and the boiled one did look that way too, but upon cutting it did seem just on the edge of cooked enough - perhaps a little under.

 

I not sure how to interpret the results other than that I now understand a little better why ATK claimed it tested over 1,000 eggs.

 

Possible errata:

 

1) The two eggs were from the three I mentioned above that varied from 61-63 grams, but I don't know which ones I used.

 

2) The burners were at very different levels of flame.  The boil pot needed more flame to heat the larger volume of water.  Given that I feel the temperature of steam can get above 212, perhaps I should've put the spurs to it.

 

3) I did take a picture, but the visual results are virtually identical so I didn't bother to upload it.

 

Well ok, I can't eat any more eggs tonight.  I think if I had to cook soft boiled eggs for company tomorrow I'd go with ATK's recommendation of steaming for 6:30.