NYTimes Articles on Food, Drink, Culinary Culture 2013–

[rotuts]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/sports/in-hunt-for-red-abalone-divers-face-risks-and-poachers-face-the-law.html?ref=sports

 

Im of the age where you could get abalone in a few restaurants along the N.Ca. cost.

 

we used to have it once a year on trips north of SF.

 

as delicious as anything from the sea.

[weinoo]

Indeed, I have an old friend who used to free dive, pre-middle age, along the Mendocino coast for ab - not exactly the safest way to acquire one's dinner.  One of the sea's greatest treasures (when properly prepared)...even when it was cooked in San Jose       .

[rotuts]

today:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/dining/index.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&region=TopBar&module=HPMiniNav&contentCollection=Dining&WT.nav=page

 

its not as apparent on the web  display but the print section 'Dinning' seems to indicate the NYTimes is

 

starting a Cooking School w and App.

 

p.s.:  they have this :

 

http://cooking.nytimes.com/

Edited September 24, 2014 by rotuts (log)

[Smithy]

Woohoo! Breathing new life into the NYTimes Cookbook, perhaps? Too bad the app isn't for Android. Still, the web page shows some wonderful archives. Thanks for the links.

[rotuts]

Not that Im spending Your Money

 

which I am

 

Id consider  your Over All Budget

 

and get an iPhone 

 

or not

 

Just saying

[Craig E]

Sometimes you may think you recognize a cocktail that you like (a good cocktail, in other words), but everything you like about it has been replaced by some other thing that you’re not sure about. “Hello there, that sounds like an old-fashioned!” you think. “But with burdock syrup instead of sugar, Croatian absinthe instead of bourbon, and hemlock bitters instead of Angostura.” If curiosity gets the upper hand and you ask for one, you will wonder why you couldn’t have had an old-fashioned old-fashioned.

 

Link

[brinza]

I run into this occasionally.  I also hate the ever-popular "Our twist on a . . ." theme, especially when the standard is a very good, but uncommon drink, such as a Corpse Reviver #2 or a Negroni (to be sure, those drinks are not thought of as uncommon around here, but they aren't as ubiquitous throughout restaurants as we would like to think).  I always think, "Those are good drinks as they are, why do we need your twist on them?  Just serve the classic item!"

[KD1191]

Distribution plays a part, I fear. The high end bars are going to get the highly allocated stuff and restaurants seem to be left scrambling. I thought about this the other day while seated at the bar at a high end restaurant in NYC. The place employs some serious bar talent, but they seem to have pulled the short straw on spirits. Their American whiskey selection was all 2-3 yr old stuff from small craft distillers, which I guess fits with their theme, but it was way over priced even before they applied their markup. I wanted something to sip on, but there wasn't a single thing I was interested in tasting.

[slkinsey]

The problem is that there are far more restaurants that want to have a schmancy cocktail program than there are good cocktail creators willing to curate a list for them.  Or, sometimes even worse, the kitchen or wine personnel figure they know enough about combining flavors to create their own cocktails despite having no experience or expertise in this field. The result is often a $16 glass of crap.

Edited October 10, 2014 by slkinsey (log)

[FrogPrincesse]

But usually it's easy to tell whether it's worth ordering a cocktail, based on the menu and the reputation of the place, or by asking a few strategic questions to the bartenders. Or you can always take a chance and order a cocktail, and then if it's not good, you just order wine or beer next time. Not a big deal.

In the end there is only a small number of places where it's worth spending $ on cocktails, especially when you already make good ones at home.

[FrogPrincesse]

Similar article in PUNCH that references the New York Times article - Are New York’s Restaurant Bars Really That Bad?

[KD1191]

If there are enough of something, it'll be easy to find some bad ones. I would rather drink a cocktail at home than at all but perhaps 7 bars in the city...restaurants that number is probably closer to 2. That probably sounds bad just given the number of each, but my bar is better stocked than all but a handful (see comment re: distribution above), and in Chicago those numbers were more like 5 and 1. For those of us with high standards, I think we can expect to continue to be disappointed...personally, I've given up on ordering drinks in restaurants and have been focusing on increasing my wine knowledge. In addition to the fact that there's just not enough talent to staff the shear number of restaurants trying to serve fancy cocktails, we must factor in the reality that there's a significant portion of the dining public who want something very different from a cocktail and would send back a balanced daiquiri, and I don't see this problem going away anytime soon.

[Adam George]

This is basically the reverse of our answer to "why don't you serve food at your bar?"; a question that we are asked regularly.

[chefmd]

I enjoyed the article.  Don't know much about cocktails but did try Hemingway daiquiri after reading about it on eGullet and it was amazing (even in my rendition), so very different from what I previously tried and did not like in a couple of restaurants.  

 

Adam George, why don't you serve food?  Do you want customers to enjoy cocktails without food changing the flavor profile?

[weinoo]

I think what Adam is saying is that they're experts at cocktails, not food.  At restaurants, we expect them to be experts at food, not cocktails.

 

Rare to find both. But EMP and Nomad both qualify.

[chefmd]

weinoo, thanks for clarifying.  I ate at Nomad and all I can remember is the whole chicken with foie gras and truffles.  Frankly, that is all I can remember about that whole day.

[Adam George]

Mate! We serve cocktails in juice boxes! We are not precious at all!

I hasten to add, you will get a perfect old fashioned stirred in a Yarai glass and served in a dozen glass on block ice, blah blah blah, but we simply don't have the expertise, space, time or staff to implement a food program yet.

We will do it, but in order for it to pay for itself, we need to research it a lot better. I don't see us doing food this side of Christmas. We opened in late May.

Add the red tape you have to pass through to get the permission to serve food and at the moment, it's not our time.

This side of the pond, you'll get a good cocktail at any Jason Atherton venue, thanks to Gareth Evans as group bar Manager.

His restaurants are also very accomplished.

[EvergreenDan]

I always think, "Those are good drinks as they are, why do we need your twist on them?  Just serve the classic item!"

Dunno. I've usually had the classic and am happy to try a twist, particularly one an unsinkable template like the Negroni. I really don't want to order a regular Negroni out. I want something that I don't make at home all the time.

Fred Yarm posted an interesting observation in chwhnd to the effect that in Boston, almost all of the great bars are either in or closely associated with a restaurant. He then speculates that it may have to do with the high cost of liquor licenses.

I'm of two minds. I applaud the small restaurants in attempting to have some sort of cocktail program. If they at least can make a Negroni, then I have something nice to drink. If they don't even try, then I have to settle for a pour of some boring whiskey or maybe risk a lousy Martini or Gin & Tonic.

But if the bartender is really incompetent, then I agree it's best to not try. Like my "special" Manhattan that I order in mid NH, which was supposed to be with a premium bourbon, Carpano Antica, bitters, and a Luxardo cherry. What came out was vodka, something sweet and red (red-dyed cherry juice, perhaps), and a neon cherry. I sent it back and ordered a glass of Carpano, which amazingly they "just used the last of in your first drink".

Edited October 11, 2014 by EvergreenDan (log)

[weinoo]

Unless I know that where we're dining has a competent bar program, I shy away from cocktails if we're sitting at a table.  If we're sitting at the bar to eat (which we often do), and I can watch the bartender(s) make a drink, and they seem suitably competent, I'll order a classic that's hard to fuck up. But I will tell them exactly how I want it made, like a 3:1 Beefeater Martini, with a twist.

 

Tonight we're most likely going to Alder; will sit at the bar, which in addition to having a great cocktail "program," has bartenders who know exactly what they're doing.

Edited October 11, 2014 by weinoo (log)

[KD1191]

I really don't want to order a regular Negroni out. I want something that I don't make at home all the time.

 

I once made a similar comment while sitting at the bar at the Violet Hour and the quick response has stuck with me..."Sometimes you just don't want to do the dishes."

Edited October 11, 2014 by KD1191 (log)

[pto]

Dunno. I've usually had the classic and am happy to try a twist, particularly one an unsinkable template like the Negroni. I really don't want to order a regular Negroni out. I want something that I don't make at home all the time.

Along these lines, I'll usually order something that has an ingredient/bottling that I've never tried, be it in a "twist" or otherwise. I don't usually want to order the same thing I could make at home anytime(usually better and always way cheaper).

Edited October 11, 2014 by pto (log)

[patrickamory]

I agree 100% with the article. In fact, I always wave away cocktail menus - not interested in looking at them.

[bostonapothecary]

I took over the cocktail list where I'm at probably four years now. It has been a tremendous success and there is probably 20 regulars we know by name that must have each of the drinks any time they come in. Margins on the drinks are great (better than wine even) and the prep is easy and cocktail sales are up staggeringly in those four years. We sell more gin than vodka and probably make only one cosmo a week. Probably less than 10 gin & tonics a week relative to the 500 cocktails we sell in a week (we are only a small one million dollars restaurant).

 

But the staff hates the list. They always think classics are played out (we rock the bees knees, southside and old fashioned), they want everything to be more premium without increasing prices (which would erode the margins and piss guests off that don't want to pay $12), and they want all the drinks to have the same structure (bitter & boozy) instead of well differentiated structures. And then when they want it more complicated, they don't want to help with the prep.

 

My drinks make my guests happy and when I want to make myself happy, I make myself a drink. I also keep probably 5-10 aces up my sleeve where I can entertain 4 jaded had everything drinkers for many rounds to the pinacles of delight. For some reason the staff never uses the aces, they want everything already in print because they are afraid to talk their way through it. They want to sell these new fangled drinks that they don't even want to drink themselves!

 

Well the list works and its built on modesty, patience, and pragmatism and then the classics, even though the staff is always trying to burn it down to satisfy some weird itches that have nothing to do with the guests. I can totally see why so many other lists go to shit so quickly.

[weinoo]

I took over the cocktail list where I'm at probably four years now. It has been a tremendous success and there is probably 20 regulars we know by name that must have each of the drinks any time they come in. Margins on the drinks are great (better than wine even) and the prep is easy and cocktail sales are up staggeringly in those four years. We sell more gin than vodka and probably make only one cosmo a week. Probably less than 10 gin & tonics a week relative to the 500 cocktails we sell in a week (we are only a small one million dollars restaurant).

 

But the staff hates the list. They always think classics are played out (we rock the bees knees, southside and old fashioned), they want everything to be more premium without increasing prices (which would erode the margins and piss guests off that don't want to pay $12), and they want all the drinks to have the same structure (bitter & boozy) instead of well differentiated structures. And then when they want it more complicated, they don't want to help with the prep.

 

My drinks make my guests happy and when I want to make myself happy, I make myself a drink. I also keep probably 5-10 aces up my sleeve where I can entertain 4 jaded had everything drinkers for many rounds to the pinacles of delight. For some reason the staff never uses the aces, they want everything already in print because they are afraid to talk their way through it. They want to sell these new fangled drinks that they don't even want to drink themselves!

 

Well the list works and its built on modesty, patience, and pragmatism and then the classics, even though the staff is always trying to burn it down to satisfy some weird itches that have nothing to do with the guests. I can totally see why so many other lists go to shit so quickly.

 

Brilliant synopsis.  And really, there's nothing wrong with a great gin and tonic, or gin rickey, or Tom Collins or...

[Hassouni]

Dunno. I've usually had the classic and am happy to try a twist, particularly one an unsinkable template like the Negroni. I really don't want to order a regular Negroni out. I want something that I don't make at home all the time.

 

Absolutely. When I'm at a bar with tons of cool stuff on the shelf, I spend a while looking at what I don't have and figuring out what to ask for based on that.