Monosodium Glutamate/MSG: The Topic

[Anna N]

24 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

MSG is by far the most researched food additive ever.

But as we all know, if someone believes they have a sensitivity to something then no amount of research will convince them otherwise.  

[liuzhou]

19 minutes ago, Anna N said:

But as we all know, if someone believes they have a sensitivity to something then no amount of research will convince them otherwise.  

Exactly.

I remember back in the UK, once upon a time, people would spend all evening in the pub drinking pint after pint of lager then at 'chucking-out time' heading for the nearest bad Chinese restaurant where they could get more beer. They would wake up the next morning complaining they had headaches and were dehydrated from that Chinese MFG stuff, totally forgetting the gallon plus of cheap lager they had drunk.

 

Also, if anyone does feel discomfort after eating Chinese, that is no proof MSG is to blame.

 

Billions of people eat MSG every day with no ill effects. I've only ever met one person in China who claims an intolerance, but she claims intolerance to everything!
 

Edited March 23, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[lemniscate]

My father started putting Accent (overpriced branded American msg in a shaker can) in the breakfast scrambled eggs.  I like msg, it adds a lot of satisfying flavor to most things.   However, scrambled eggs ain't one of them and he had a heavy hand.  I begged him as a kid to please just go back to simple salt/pepper in the eggs.   I think I could taste it more profoundly than he could because he was quite surprised at the request. 

 

I use msg without worry, but I won't use it in egg dishes due to that childhood flavor memory.

[btbyrd]

4 hours ago, eugenep said:

Hey. Here's one thing I don't get. 

 

Like..I put salt, vinegar, or chili on something and I get an idea of how much to use by tasting something as too salty, sour, or spicy. 

But..do you do that with MSG? I mean..when you sprinkle it on..do you taste it as too umami and too meaty? 

Like..how do you know you used too much? Or is that even possible? 

I always thought that was weird. 

 

I use it like salt. Salt has a definite flavor. So does MSG, contrary to what a post above suggested. You have glutamate receptors on your tongue, and that's what goes off when you taste MSG. I'd invite you to give the raw crystals a taste to get an idea of what it tastes like. It is a one-dimensional umami note. Delicious and mouth watering, perhaps, but still somewhat one dimensional. And if you add too much of it, that one dimension becomes all too obvious and the dish becomes unpalatable. In that respect, it's like salt. Salt pretty much just tastes like salt. When you season food with it, you keep adding and tasting until you get the level right. Food should taste delicious and flavorful, and salt helps you out there. But if you add too much, the salt predominates and it tastes *salty* rather than *seasoned.* The same thing is true of MSG. I like to use it in smallish amounts as a background flavor that you can't pick out, but which helps promote the overall flavor of whatever it is I'm cooking. If I take a bite of something I've made and think "Oh, I can taste MSG" then I have failed... even if I'm making some kind of umami-bomb dish. 

 

There are some commercial products I won't buy because the have too much MSG flavor to them. Most chili crisps, for example, have too much MSG in them for my preference. I want to add crispy chili garlic magic, not MSG. Lao Gan Ma and S&B chili crisps are more MSG sauces than chili sauces, and that's a shame because I want to love them. I also don't care for most off-the-shelf broths/stocks because they're mostly MSG or yeast extract and water. I add MSG to my broths too, but they're already extremely flavorful. The MSG in commercial broth is a crutch to make a lower quality product taste better than it otherwise would. Which is fine, I guess. But I'd rather have honest stock flavor please.

 

There are other products I buy because they're tasty MSG bombs. Like Doritos. The most recent revelation I've had was Margaret Holmes's line of "seasoned" canned vegetables. I was served a tin of their Hoppin' John by my in-laws this new year and it was both delicious and tremendously MSG-forward. I joked at the time that Margaret Holmes's secret "seasoning" is really just MSG. But that's no joke -- there's a whole line of beans and peas and greens and everything else that's drowning in MSG and also tastes pretty good.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

My father started using MSG as soon as Accent came on the market.    Never a problem in our family.   

I recently bought a jar.   A single taste test of the pure product resulted in only an intensely sweet taste, like sugar.    Don't know what that proves or says.

[btbyrd]

Taste it again.

[jedovaty]

3 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

If you over salt it gets more salty. Over vinegar more sour. Over chilli too hot. Nothing similar happens with MSG. It is almost tasteless in itself.

I've been playing with it for a couple years and there is a "too much" taste I'd describe it as a physically very sharp salt.  It almost makes me want to say "ouch", but it doesn't actually hurt.  Don't know how else to verbalize it, but it is unpleasant.

 

The flavored version in goya's Saizon seasoning packet is one of the tastiest ways to ease into msg (my gateway for msg anyway) 

 

There is a correlation amongst my friends with various dietary challenges, especially those who have problems with nightshades: they don't fare well with MSG (panic attacks, sobbing, etc).  Nightshades seem to be high in glutamates naturally, and symptoms are similar, so there could be a connection 🤷‍♂️

Edited March 23, 2023 by jedovaty (log)

[heidih]

I've never purchased it though I do recall Accent adverts. I have no perceived sensitivity. I've just never felt the need to play with it. A Vietnamese friend gave me a big bag of Taiwanese mushroom powder and I did go through 2 bags before I could not find it again at market. The one in the link, second image.  https://www.vietworldkitchen.com/blog/2011/07/msg-salt-mushroom-seasoning.html I use chicken powder and if I have some good ones I buzz dried miushrooms to sprinkle in dishes.  Probably something cheap to play with. Oh I did have a little bag of it - Korean lady gave to me along with her kimchi recipe. Long ago. I made it but did not taste it as the smell of well fermented kimchi was the one item that gave me nausea during pregnancy. I donlt pick my restaurants based on "we use no MSG".

[jedovaty]

http://www.bandhmo.org/

[Duvel]

Specifically for egg dishes I do this: I substitute the amount of salt I would usually want to use (volumetric, by „feel“) with a equal mixture of salt, MSG and sugar. The effect on the egg product is dramatic: it just gets so much tastier. Not more salty (it’s actually a lot less), but more pure „eggy“, more balanced, more … tasty. Very difficult to explain, but the egg dishes are just better. Give it a try, please 🙏

Edited March 23, 2023 by Duvel (log)

[KennethT]

Just now, Duvel said:

Specifically for egg dishes I do this: I substitute the amount of salt I would usually want to use (volumetric, by „feel“) with a equal mixture of salt, MSG and sugar. The effect on the egg product is dramatic: it just gets so much tastier. Not more salt (it’s actually a lot less), but more pure „eggy“, more balanced, more … tasty. Very difficult to explain, but the egg dishes are just better. Give it a try, please 🙏

I do this for stir fried vegetables - I use a combo of salt, MSG and sugar.  It's amazing that people can eat vegetables cooked any other way!

Also - to make EVEN BETTER - add some chicken powder!  I have some chicken powder that has no salt or MSG so I don't need to adjust my combo - I don't know exactly what it is, but I love it - makes basically everything better.

[heidih]

35 minutes ago, KennethT said:

I do this for stir fried vegetables - I use a combo of salt, MSG and sugar.  It's amazing that people can eat vegetables cooked any other way!

Also - to make EVEN BETTER - add some chicken powder!  I have some chicken powder that has no salt or MSG so I don't need to adjust my combo - I don't know exactly what it is, but I love it - makes basically everything better.

Yes so often what I see watching food videos esp in SE Asia. Part of that compartmented tray that sits by stove. My chicken powder leads with salt, MSG, and also sugar further down ingredient list. Knorr made in Mexico. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by heidih (log)

[Beebs]

I've started using MSG a couple years ago. I feel like it cuts down on me adding extra salt and soy sauce for a dish that's missing something. Only using a couple pinches, a little goes a long way. It tastes a bit metallic when I accidentally add too much. It's a game-changer for stir fried greens! And fried rice. 

 

Showing some love for chicken powder. I've got both Knorr and Lee Kum Kee chicken powders in my pantry.

 

And Maggi Sauce - "liquid MSG" - I've been using this all my life. Can't eat boiled or fried eggs without it.

[KennethT]

12 minutes ago, heidih said:

Yes so often what I see watching food videos esp in SE Asia. Part of that compartmented tray that sits by stove. My chicken powder leads with salt, MSG, and also sugar further down ingredient list. Knorr made in Mexico. 

Yeah, the Knorr stuff is REALLY salty.  I much prefer the Lee Kum Kee Premium Boullion powder which is not very salty (it does have some salt and sugar) so it doesn't really factor into how much additional salt I add - or maybe it does and I factor it in with it subconsciously?

[Anna N]

50 minutes ago, Duvel said:

Specifically for egg dishes I do this: I substitute the amount of salt I would usually want to use (volumetric, by „feel“) with a equal mixture of salt, MSG and sugar. The effect on the egg product is dramatic: it just gets so much tastier. Not more salty (it’s actually a lot less), but more pure „eggy“, more balanced, more … tasty. Very difficult to explain, but the egg dishes are just better. Give it a try, please 🙏

So I gather you keep a mixture on hand. Equal parts by volume? Weight? (I do notice that many Asian egg dishes call for some sugar.)

[heidih]

32 minutes ago, KennethT said:

Yeah, the Knorr stuff is REALLY salty.  I much prefer the Lee Kum Kee Premium Boullion powder which is not very salty (it does have some salt and sugar) so it doesn't really factor into how much additional salt I add - or maybe it does and I factor it in with it subconsciously?

I donlt add salt when I use it unless tasting reveals need. But then there is usually soy and/or fish sauce . Maybe I;ve been usong it long enough that it becomes instinctive as to portion. And I usually start with a bit and add more as needed. Works for me.

[gfweb]

2 hours ago, KennethT said:

Yeah, the Knorr stuff is REALLY salty. 

 

It really is... to the point of being unusable

[heidih]

1 hour ago, gfweb said:

 

It really is... to the point of being unusable

Well I am not a salt craver/lover person and it works for me. We are all different.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

4 hours ago, Beebs said:

And Maggi Sauce - "liquid MSG" - I've been using this all my life. Can't eat boiled or fried eggs without it.

Which Maggi product, please?

[Duvel]

8 hours ago, Anna N said:

So I gather you keep a mixture on hand. Equal parts by volume? Weight? (I do notice that many Asian egg dishes call for some sugar.)

You‘d think so, but no. I also keep wondering why I don’t premix, but the reality is that I always throw the mix together in situ. By „volume“ and measured by eye, which tells me that the rough ratios are fairly forgiving …

[Duvel]

8 hours ago, Beebs said:

I feel like it cuts down on me adding extra salt and soy sauce

I feel the same way, which for a person with rather elevated blood pressure is positive thing. 

[weinoo]

6 hours ago, Duvel said:

I feel the same way, which for a person with rather elevated blood pressure is positive thing. 

 

This makes me think that I ought to be using it; it (MSG) is not something I have in the apartment, nor have I ever used it (directly) in anything I cook. Of course, I consume it via various products (yes, Doritos) and when dining out (I'm sure) and it may be in a condiment or two that I use in cooking (but not in mustard).

 

I wonder if it is because much of my cooking is Italian/French based, and I can pore over my Italian, French, Spanish, Greek, Middle-Eastern, Mexican et al. cookbooks, and never see it mentioned.

[KennethT]

3 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

This makes me think that I ought to be using it; it (MSG) is not something I have in the apartment, nor have I ever used it (directly) in anything I cook. Of course, I consume it via various products (yes, Doritos) and when dining out (I'm sure) and it may be in a condiment or two that I use in cooking (but not in mustard).

 

I wonder if it is because much of my cooking is Italian/French based, and I can pore over my Italian, French, Spanish, Greek, Middle-Eastern, Mexican et al. cookbooks, and never see it mentioned.

That's not surprising.  My Nyonya cookbook (I got from the NY Public Library but is from Singapore) has MSG in maybe 3/4 of the recipes.

[weinoo]

12 minutes ago, KennethT said:

That's not surprising.  My Nyonya cookbook (I got from the NY Public Library but is from Singapore) has MSG in maybe 3/4 of the recipes.

 

But it has some, so I don't know that you can equate the two.  I'm talking about zero recipes and zero mentions. 

 

During my time in cooking school (French based), never mentioned.

 

It's just not (historically, at least in those cuisines) used (to my knowledge).  Though they sure use mushrooms, tomatoes, etc. 

[KennethT]

11 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

But it has some, so I don't know that you can equate the two.  I'm talking about zero recipes and zero mentions. 

 

During my time in cooking school (French based), never mentioned.

 

It's just not (historically, at least in those cuisines) used (to my knowledge).  Though they sure use mushrooms, tomatoes, etc. 

Sorry - I wasn't clear.  I was saying that cookbooks in Asia (not written by western people) commonly have MSG as ingredients, but like you, I've never seen it used in a western cookbook - US or Europe.  so I wasn't surprised that you've never seen it if you don't have any cookbooks from Asia.