Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

jmolinari

Curing and Cooking with Ruhlman & Polcyn's "Charcuterie" (Part 5)

Recommended Posts

Here are some images from the latest adventure:

Boudin blanc:

gallery_56799_5407_9669.jpg

Hot-smoked Andouille:

gallery_56799_5407_15329.jpg

Smoking the Salmon in the Ghetto Smoker 4000:

gallery_56799_5407_36746.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just finished up a nice coppa. A bit too clove-y, but still rather tasty!

gallery_15167_3011_17673.jpg


Edited by jmolinari (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just finished up a nice coppa. A bit too clove-y, but still rather tasty!

gallery_15167_3011_17673.jpg

Is the yellowish hue at the center normal in home-cured coppa? I think if I saw that my first time making it I would be freaked out... yellow meat doesn't seem like a good thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may be a white-balance issue with the camera or the lighting, there isn't any yellowness at the center.

Also though, a commerical chunk of cured meat i got from Italy, using a hunk of pork leg, has a central chunk of fat that is bright yellow. I've been eating it no problem. I don't know what the chemistry behind the yellowing is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi jmolinari

The Coppa recipe seemed REALLY interesting, I had never tried nor heard of it, a little while back I tried it, BUT it was a disaster!

Did you follow the recipe in the Book, I did.

The first problem I came to, was that whenever I tried to squeeze the air out, I couldn't, it was a too irregular shape, what with using chunks instead of mince; tying it up was difficult and hanging it up was almost impossible.

From the looks of the photo, it seems a LOT smaller than the one I used, what kind of casing have you used?

Also it wasn't clear (to me) how much of the seasoning was to remain on the meat, yours seems quite free of herbs, peppers, etc. and finally, I thought from memory that it was supposed to be lean meat, yours seems to have a fair amount of fat?

To cut short, it started to turn fuzzy, ... with green fuzz, I didn't have the courage to try it.

Jon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been following this thread for some time now and using the book. Recently I've been working on the cured sausages, having done the Tuscan Salume and the Peporone. Both were in hog casings. I'm now wanting to move up to larger middles and have a question. Along with the beef middles that I ordered, I got some netting since it looks really cool. Do I need to clean the netting in some way before I use it with the stuffed sausage and let it dry? So much of this seems to be centered on cleanliness and keeping the number of bad bacteria to a minimum, I didn't know if I should do something to clean the netting first.

Anyone have any experience they could share?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't got the book, but we just finished wet-curing a whole wild boar ham, and this seemed like the right place to post results in case they help someone else. We loosely followed the 'York-style Ham' recipe in Aidell's Pork book.

We started with a whole ham, bone-in, skin-off. Not sure about the exact weight, but from a 200lb field dressed pig; guessing the ham is a little over 20 lbs. Ham was frozen for several months before brining, but still in excellent condition.

Brine:

5 cups Mortons kosher salt (~750 g)

1.5 cups brown sugar (~350 g)

5 Tbsp #1 curing salts (~50 g)

1.5 gallons water (~6 L)

Frozen ham was placed a Ziplock XL utility bag (25 gallon size), which worked very well (although be careful not to pierce bag with any protruding cut bones). Brine added, bag loosely wrapped with duct tape to get it to mostly cover the ham. An oven bag (Glad) was tried first, but ripped immediately --- not recommended for brining.

Bag containing ham and brine put in a cooler. Ice added on second day after ham had mostly thawed. Brine and bag changed (replaced with same recipe) after 4 days. Probably not necessary, but I had a lot of leakage out of the bag due to leakage (user error). Ham considered done after 8 days [see below]. The combination of frozen ham and a 20 lb bag of ice in a decent cooler kept everything nicely cold for the first seven days, but we added an extra 3 lb bag of ice the last night since almost everything had melted by then.

Ham was cooked in an Glad oven bag at 325F (160C) for about 4.5 hours. Bag probably not necessary, but used it since we had one left over after trying to use one for brining. Glazed at the end with honey and orange juice. Didn't take a final temperature, but estimated 165F, then rested for 30 minutes.

Ham came out delicious --- quite salty on the outside and shank, perfect for most of the interior. Outer ham was a pretty ham-colored pink from the curing salts, innermost 1.5" was dark from since it hadn't been penetrated yet by the brine. Very clear line of distinction between cured and uncured. Uncured interior was fine, but taste, texture and appearance of the pink cured part was definitely preferable.

Second ham is still in the freezer, and we'll probably do it for Christmas. Not sure if we should just brine it longer to get full penetration of brine, or to try some other way getting the brine to the interior. Probably will make a deep slit on the bottom of ham (to the bone) and see if that is enough. Could bone it, but the appearance of the whole ham on the bone is great.

Comfortably feeds 20 with lots of leftovers, probably fine for 30.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon, no i didn't follow the recipe from the book.

As i've said before, i don't know why the recipe in the book calls for chunks of shoulder. That isn't what coppa is. I hope there is an error correction in the next edition.

You can see my blog for how to butcher a coppa from a shoulder.

Oh, the casing i use is 100mm.

jason


Edited by jmolinari (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thetwood, i've used those nettings, and haven't cleaned them, before you. Haven't had any problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Jason. I've got everything set up and will put it all together tonight. Any hints about using the netting? I can't find any real instructions or info about using.

Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The few times i used it i just stretched it over the bresaola/coppa. I didn't really find any use for it though. So i just use butcher's knots know along the length of the product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My back fat will be in on Friday! I'm driving two hours to Portland than two hours back to get it :)

Lardo, here I come

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be making boudin noir in the next few weeks. Charcuterie says they don't keep well, but do they keep well frozen (I see plenty of online frozen boudins)? Should they be frozen before or after poaching?


Edited by Mallet (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think frozen after poaching for boudin noir. Before poaching it is really squishy and soft and i'd be afraid it'll leak blood all over!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've successfully frozen boudin noir in the past (purchased, not homemade), and I've never poached it after thawing - I just reheated it by frying. So I agree that you should probably poach it before freezing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, Folks,

Just seeking advice.

I regularly make fresh sausages (Italian, breakfast, merguez), air dried sausages, bacon, and brine cured ham. I would like to make Lonza (not sure if I spelled that right) an Italian air-cured boneless pork loin but I'm getting different suggestions from different people.

Should I brine cure first? Should I simply rub with salts/spices and hang/air dry in a stretchy netting? Should I stuff into a man made casing (this was suggested by someone who makes plenty of lonza, but I'm worried about the casing being a moisture barrier and air curing being slowed). Should I weight down the loin during a first stage of curing?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Chad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would definitely salt cure it before drying, it needs time for the salt/cure to penetrate the meat.

As for casing, i would use a collagen casing, 90 or 100mm should work well. It will slow the drying, but that is a good thing. I believe that the slower the drying (without allowing it to rot!), the better the flavor developed. I made a bresaola once without a casing and it came out quite well, but i preferred the ones with a casing.

The latest coppa i made took 60 days to dry, and it is better than the ones i've made in the past which took about 30-40 days. I changed the drying time by holding the humidity at about 70% instead of my usual 60%.


Edited by jmolinari (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How long can a cured pork belly be left in the fridge before it is smoked to make bacon? I've got a belly curing right now, and it will probably be completely cured several days before I'm able to smoke it on Saturday. Will it be OK to leave the cured belly in the fridge for 3 or 4 days before it gets smoked? If so, should I leave it uncovered the whole time to form a pellicle, or should I just uncover it for the last 24 hours? Thanks for any help! :smile:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How long can a cured pork belly be left in the fridge before it is smoked to make bacon? I've got a belly curing right now, and it will probably be completely cured several days before I'm able to smoke it on Saturday. Will it be OK to leave the cured belly in the fridge for 3 or 4 days before it gets smoked? If so, should I leave it uncovered the whole time to form a pellicle, or should I just uncover it for the last 24 hours? Thanks for any help!  :smile:

The smoking itself does negligible preservation, so the bacon is as preserved as it will be after the cure is done. I wouldn't leave it uncovered for 3 or 4 days, though -- I'd worry that the meat would dry out and get leathery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How long can a cured pork belly be left in the fridge before it is smoked to make bacon? I've got a belly curing right now, and it will probably be completely cured several days before I'm able to smoke it on Saturday. Will it be OK to leave the cured belly in the fridge for 3 or 4 days before it gets smoked? If so, should I leave it uncovered the whole time to form a pellicle, or should I just uncover it for the last 24 hours? Thanks for any help!  :smile:

The smoking itself does negligible preservation, so the bacon is as preserved as it will be after the cure is done. I wouldn't leave it uncovered for 3 or 4 days, though -- I'd worry that the meat would dry out and get leathery.

There is a restaurant here in the Chicago area which makes and serves something they call "old school" bacon (and I believe they learned the technique from someone in Tennessee). It's actually bacon that's been cured normally but then dried for an extended period of time before smoking. They keep it in a temperature and humidity controlled chamber, wrapped in cheesecloth, during this stage. I think they hold it for about 30 days before smoking it.

In either case, the final product is remarkably tasty, so tasty that it could be argued that holding the bacon for an extended period of time before smoking may actually improve it. I suppose this is because the additional moisture loss leads to a more concentrated flavor. Perhaps there is also some additional 'aging' that takes place over those 30 days, too.

Regardless of which method you choose, I wouldn't leave it uncovered for more than 24 hours or the exterior will likely become dry and unpalatable. It will also absorb odors from other items in your refrigerator. I'd definitely save the pellicle stage for the 24 hours right before the smoke, keeping it wrapped in plastic up until that point. If you go "old school," I'm not sure if the pellicle stage is still necessary but I'm guessing it isn't.

=R=

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is a restaurant here in the Chicago area which makes and serves something they call "old school" bacon (and I believe they learned the technique from someone in Tennessee).  It's actually bacon that's been cured normally but then dried for an extended period of time before smoking.  They keep it in a temperature and humidity controlled chamber, wrapped in cheesecloth, during this stage.  I think they hold it for about 30 days before smoking it.

Friends from former Yugoslavia taught me how to make slanina, a dry-cured, cold smoked pork belly that is eaten raw. Skin-on bellies are salted with 3% coares sea salt (meat weight basis) and cured about 2 weeks under refrigeration (~36 F). They were adamant about not using sugar but for my tastes a little sucanat or brown sugar (.5%) adds a nice touch. The bellies are then cut into full-length strips about 4 - 5 inches wide and hung in a drying chamber at around 55 F/ 75% RH for 5 - 7 weeks. The humidity is kept fairly high throughout the drying period and any incidental mold is scrubbed off periodically. During the final week, each day the slabs are cold smoked (always below 80 F - its a winter time thing) with very light smoke (kissed by the smoke!) for a few hours, then returned to the drying room.

The skin (which turns fairly hard) is left on and serves as a cutting board. Cut slices about 2 - 3 mm thick, wrap a slice around a shaving off a big clove of garlic. Serve with a nice crusty coarse-textured bread, and if you're ever lucky to get some, accompany with homemade double-distilled plum brandy (slivovica) or a nice bitter ale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone experimented with the sauerkraut recipe from the book? It came out too salty but I want to try the brine technique again. Something less salty and more tangy is what I'm shooting for. Making kraut the traditional way with dry salt on cut cabbage, hasn't been fail-safe on small batches (single head of cabbage).

I'd like to try it cutting the salt back to 40 g/l and adding a small amount of fermentable carbohydrate (perhaps 1 g/l dextrose to start). If you've made brine-cured kraut I'd love to hear about your experience. Some web recipes use as little as 10 g/l of salt but I'm a little jittery about the safety aspects, not having much experience with fermenting veggies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Charcuterie says you can leave the cured bacon covered for up to 3 days before smoking/roasting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you to everyone for the helpful advice! I can't wait to smoke my first batch of bacon in my Big Green Egg this weekend! :biggrin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Similar Content

    • By boilsover
      Solid intermediate cook, here.  Not especially intimidated by elaborate preps.  But I'm new to SV, and would like a recommendation for a cookbook for guidance and exploration.
       
      I was thinking of Tom Keller's Under Pressure, but I'm wondering if the preps he includes may not be the most generally useful.  What do you all like, and why?
       
      Thanks!
    • By Chris Hennes
      On Nov. 7, 2017, Modernist Bread will finally arrive on my doorstep. Having preordered it literally the first day it was available, to say I'm excited about this book is a bit of an understatement. The team at The Cooking Lab have been gracious enough to give @Dave the Cook and me early electronic access to the book and so I've spent the last week pouring over it. I'm just going to start with a few initial comments here (it's 2600 pages long, so a full review is going to take some time, and require a bunch of baking!). Dave and I would also be happy to answer any questions you've got.
       
      One of the main things I've noticed about this book is a change in tone from the original Modernist Cuisine. It comes across as less "everything you know is wrong" and more "eighty bazillion other bakers have contributed to this knowledge and here's our synthesis of it." I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Myhrvold and company are now the most experienced bread-bakers in the world. Not necessarily in terms of the number of identical loaves they've produced, but in the shear number of different recipes and techniques they've tried and the care with which they've analyzed the results. These volumes are a distillation of 100,000 years of human breadmaking experience, topped off with a dose of the Modernist ethos of taking what we know to the next level.
       
      The recipes include weight, volume, and baker's percentages, and almost all of them can be made by both a home baker and someone baking in a commercial facility. The home baker might need to compromise on shape (e.g. you can't fit a full-length baguette in most home ovens) but the book provides clear instructions for both the amateur and professional. The recipes are almost entirely concentrated in volumes 4 and 5, with very few in the other volumes (in contrast to Modernist Cuisine, where there were many recipes scattered throughout). I can't wait for the physical volumes to arrive so that I can have multiple volumes open at once, the recipes cross-reference techniques taught earlier quite frequently.
    • By Chris Hennes
      I just got a copy of Grace Young's "Stir-Frying to the Sky's Edge"—I enjoyed cooking from "Breath of a Wok" and wanted to continue on that path. Does anyone else have this book? Have you cooked anything from it?

      Here was dinner tonight:

      Spicy Dry-Fried Beef (p. 70)

      I undercooked the beef just a bit due to a waning propane supply (I use an outdoor propane-powered wok burner), but there's nothing to complain about here. It's a relatively mild dish that lets the flavors of the ingredients (and the wok) speak. Overall I liked it, at will probably make it again (hopefully with a full tank of gas).


    • By CanadianSportsman
      Greetings,

      I've cooked several recipes from Keller's "Bouchon" the last couple of weeks, and have loved them all! At the moment (as in right this minute) I'm making the boeuf Bourguignon, and am a little confused about the red wine reduction. After reducing the wine, herbs, and veg for nearly an hour now, I'm nowhere near the consistancy of a glaze that Keller specifies. In fact, it looks mostly like the veg is on the receiving end of most of it. Is this how the recipe is meant to be? Can anybody tell me what kind of yield is expected? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, kindly. 
    • By Paul Fink
      This unfortunately titled book changed my life. I always enjoyed cooking and idealized Julia Child &
      Jacque Pepin. But I was a typical home cook. I would see a recipe and try to duplicate it little understanding about what I was doing.
       
      Cooking the Nouvelle Cuisine in America talked about a philosophy of cooking. It showed me that there is more depth to cooking. A history. A philosophy.
      The recipes are very approachable and you can make them on a budget from grocery store ingredients. I read it as a grad student in Oregon, in the late 80's I had access to lots of fresh ingredients. And some very nice wines, cheap! I was suppose to be studying physics but I end up learning more about wine & cooking.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×