Nathan Kurz

I found what might be a source of Organic Refined White Sugar in the US: http://www.licious-sugar.com/ They are a Brazilian Company owned by Aref Trading, and claim to have USDA Organic Refined White Cane Sugar available for sale. Mostly they import directly from Brazil in large quantities, but as of recently they have a US distributor with small quantities available. I've yet to get any samples in hand, but they sound promising.

I've mostly been making Pacojet sorbets recently (http://screamsorbet.com), but I have a few techniques that I think should work with standard methods as well. I haven't liked taste or texture of results with Xanthan or Guar gums (or products that use them like Cremodan), but I've had good results with Gelatin, Gellan, and Pectin. I'd recommend starting with Pectin. You probably want an Amidated Citrus Pectin, also known as Pectin NH. I've tried several, and would recommend the CuisineTech Thermoreversible Citrus Pectin (http://thechefshack.com/products/tech.html). I'll try to do a full writeup at some point, but the quick instructions are to mix 1 part of pectin to 4 parts of fine granulated sugar, and then sift into 15 parts of cool water while stirring. Bring to ~95C (just starting to boil), then blitz with an immersion blender. This makes a 5% 27.5 Brix pectin solution. While still hot (~70C) add this concentrated pectin to your room temperature or warmer pre-sweetened sorbet base while blitzing. If you add .175 of this solution by base weight, this should give you a .75% final pectin. Gelatin also works well, but depending on who you are serving to you might not want add an animal product to an otherwise vegan dessert. Gellan works great with Pacojets, but I'm guessing that the more rigid gel might not come out as well with standard methods. And as Tan319 says, you might not need stabilizers if you are using a lot of high pectin fruit solids. Good luck with your experimentation!

Could someone offer a cost breakdown on a loaf of artisan bread? I'm not yet seeing why the increase in the price of wheat would cause such a large increase in the cost of the finished product. What percentage of the finished price are the raw ingredients? Above, someone offered an example where the price of organic wheat flour has gone up from $.50 USD to $1 USD per pound. Guessing at numbers, this would mean that the ingredient costs for a bagel with 3 oz of flour would increase about 10 cents in price, and a 24 oz loaf of bread would go up about 75 cents. While this is big jump, it's a lot lower than the numbers in the quote. I'd guess that there must be other things happening: increasing costs across the board, greater popularity of good bread, or just a drive for higher profit. Personally, I'm all for artisan bakers charging raising their prices to match the market demand.

I had come across their site, but had not seen their organic starches the first time through. They seem very relevant. Starches seem generally looked down upon as ice cream stabilizers, but we've really been pleased with the texture from our Sweet Potato gelato. We've joked about adding Sweet Potato to all of our flavors just to get the texture --- perhaps one of their starches will produce a similar effect. I've exchanged email with them, and apparently samples are already on their way. Thanks for the links! Not directly helpful, but the first direct confirmation I've had about its availability. Have you used it? Does it seem to be the same as other white sugars in color and flavor?

If you go to http://www.streichs.com and search for 'fish', they have a couple pages of fish molds. Not sure if any of them are quite what you are looking for, though. I've also been corresponding with them about having some custom molds made, and their prices seem very reasonable. Haven't tried it yet, though.

Thanks, and I shall check those out to see if they have any US distribution! I don't know if we are going to aim for 100% organic. It depends on whether we can find suitable organic stabilizers, or find ways to do without them. Right now, our best sorbets are dependent on citrus pectin, agar, or gellan, for which I haven't yet found certified organic substitutes. For ice creams and gelato, we've got some stuff that works without stabilizers, but there is still room for improvement. I'm not even sure we will pursue organic certification at all. I think the difference between most approaches and ours is that I'm obsessed with making great ice cream, and would like it to be organic if possible. Most organic products seem to have those priorities reversed. I like the goals of the organic movement from a sustainability perspective, and the certification would be a definite plus for marketing, but I'd rather make something truly excellent than something officially certified. The company, by the way, is Scream Sorbet. We have a small website up at http://screamsorbet.com. We are hoping to start selling at a couple Bay Area farmers markets later this month, expanding over the course of the year. We're concentrating on sorbets from in-season fruits and vegetables, but will be doing some ice creams and gelatos as well: if ice cream shops can sell sorbet, I figure we are allowed to sell ice cream. Thanks again for the research!

Thanks for the glucose lead --- I had not found that earlier and it might be quite helpful in the future. I think I've found good source for organic glucose syrup solids and organic dextrose: http://www.ciranda.com/pdf/tapioca.pdf They sent me samples promptly, and though they'd really prefer to sell by the full pallet, they are willing to sell by the 50 lb bag to help get us going ($1.90/lb for 35 DE Organic Tapioca Syrup Solids, $1.70/lb for Organic Tapioca Dextrose). (For those not up on the naming conventions, glucose syrup is a lot like corn syrup, but not necessarily made from corn. The Cargill syrup is made from wheat, the Ciranda is made from Tapioca. Glucose Syrup Solids is the dried version of this syrup, sometimes called Atomized Glucose or Glucose Powder. Glucose Powder (to the despair of those who paid attention in chemistry class) is not the same as Dextrose, which is a simple sugar. Glucose Syrups are rated in Dextrose Equivalent (DE) --- basically, the higher the number, the sweeter the sweeter the syrup. Dextrose, by definition, is 100DE.) Yes, considered and tried. It's a nice sweetener, but is not a good substitute for white sugar in cases where color or purity of flavor is a priority. I'm not sure how your son would be allergic to organic sugar and not to this, though. I tried some from here: http://www.barryfarm.com/sugars.htm I'd hoped it was going to work, but it had a sharp aftertaste. Possibly it was spoiled, or possibly this is just the way it tastes. This does remind me that I should check out the Briess organic rice syrups, though: http://www.briess.com/foodbev/productsorganics.shtml Rice syrup is not really a substitute for white sugar, though it might be a useful ingredient. Thanks for the suggestions! Keep them coming!

There is an interesting overview of Florida Crystals organic sugar here: http://naffs.mytradeassociation.org/2008clarke.pdf It includes the snippet that FLORIDA CRYSTALS ORGANIC SUGAR "May be considered to be a fine grain turbinado sugar", which agrees with my impression of most organic sugars. I've tried some evaporated cane syrup products, and in my experience they taste even more like molasses than the organic sugar. They are fine sweeteners, but definitely have a distinct color and flavor. Off the topic of organic sugar, but there is an interesting link from that page to a comparison of sugar cane and beet sugar: http://www.spreckelssugar.com/CIALetter111607.pdf (spoiler) Chemistry wins, and they conclude that sucrose is sucrose, regardless of source. I'd be interested to hear about it if you do. I was corresponding with Hendrik Rabbie (firstname at tradinorganic.com). He was pleasantly helpful, but said the minimum for ordering their sugar was 10000 lbs, and 40000 lbs for the organic glucose powder I was mostly asking him about.

Thanks! I've seen that link, but I've also seen things that say the opposite. Here's from a 1995 article that states that there are not yet any refined organic sugars on the market, but that there is nothing to stop them from being produced:: "According to Snyder, there is also nothing in sugar's processing steps that is inherently against organic standards, practices or traditions." The article goes on to detail which ways in which organic approved practices can be made to work even for sugar cane. I was hoping that since then this niche has been filled. This would agree with what I've found. I've corresponded with Tradin Organic, a Dutch company whose website lists organic ICUMSA 45 sugar (which should be refined white), but they stopped responding to my email once it was clear I was looking for 50 lb bags and not 50 ton container loads. I was hoping they might have an American distributor, but haven't found one yet. Thanks for the research, and keep posting the leads and links!

We making sorbets and ice creams on a small commercial scale near San Francisco, and have recently had a few batches turn out badly due switching to organic sugar. For a flavor like Sweet Potato, the molasses note is fine, but for something delicate like Spearmint it's a cloying overtone. I'm looking for a supplier for refined organic white sugar, and I'm starting to doubt that it even exists. The organic sugars I've found are a tawny off-white, and have a distinct molasses odor to them. Does anyone sell an organic sugar that is a straight substitute for standard white sugar? Thanks for any leads!

Usually you mix them with a portion of the sugar (to ensure even distribution), stir into the base, and then heat it enough to fully hydrate the stabilizer. Most agar requires boiling, but TIC Gums has a lower temperature soluble agar available. We've been successful heating the gellan and pectin to about 85C (185F), but I don't recall what the specs call for. The percentages vary with brand, but for all of these 1% is a reasonable starting point. This depends on a lot of variables we haven't fully isolated (acidity, Brix, calcium?), but you are aiming for a fairly firm gel when cooled. You'll get good results across a fairly wide range of concentrations. It does about the same thing as a traditional stabilizer mix: denser, smoother, slower-melting, longer shelflife. Most commercial sorbet stabilizers seem to be based around gelatin or Locust Bean Gum. Gelatin works well, but isn't vegetarian friendly. We haven't liked the texture or taste of the LBG. If you like your sorbets light and slightly icy (some do) you probably won't benefit much from adding stabilizers. I've only been using these with Pacojet sorbets, so I don't how this would vary for a traditional batch freezer. We are currently using Citrus Pectin for most things. Apple Pectin is OK, but gives an dull apple taste and foams up a lot unless processed with the Blue Button held down. We've been doing almost everything this way, as we prefer the denser texture that results. Good luck!

I've prepared and eaten some freshly gathered Red Abalone in California, which are considerably larger than these. Extracting from the shell is fairly easy once you figure out the right angles. For your size, probably work a butter knife or metal spoon between the shell and meat until you can find the small point of attachment to the shell. Come at that from the correct direction (try and see) and it comes off easily. Then remove everything that doesn't seem like firm white meat, and trim off the dark colored skin. You don't need to trim too well -- the trimming is mostly cosmetic. I'd suggest slicing into pieces a little thicker than you might guess: maybe 1/4 to 3/8". Pound firmly but not violently with a blunt object like a rolling pin or wine bottle about 10 times. The flesh should end up much softer and relaxed than it started, but not particularly flattened. You aren't trying to tenderize them like a tough steak, just to cause them to relax. Fry in butter in a hot pan for a short time on each side --- maybe 30-45 seconds per side. Use egg and dip in panko if you must, but after the first time I decided that even that detracted too much from the delectable meat. I'd suggest cooking it bare, and eating it by itself as an appetizer with fresh squeezed lemon juice, salt. You can certainly use it in a dish, but if the quality is good I think you'd be better appreciating them directly. Here's a link that provides more information about cleaning, although realize that he's talking about abalone with dishplate sized shells: http://sonic.net/~rocky/abhandlingcleaning.htm And here's some suggestions for preparing them California style (although like I said, I'd eat the first batch with just butter, lemon juice, and salt): http://sonic.net/~rocky/abrecipesbreaded.htm Good luck, and tell us how it goes!

How much gellan did you use? So I have a reference point. ← The non-melting sorbets were made with Gelatin, not Gellan. I don't recall the exact amount, probably something like 30 grams per liter? It was accidental, and based on a misconversion of units. I've also accidentally made non-melting ice creams in the Pacojet by using too much Okinawan purple yam, and frequently made non-melting mousse-like creations by using too much high fat chocolate. When using Gellan as a stabilizer for Pacojet sorbets (ie, not intended to be an unmelting mass) I use something like 10 g per liter (or about a Tablespoon per Pacojet beaker). This forms a fairly firm gel that Pacotizes (with the air-release button depressed) to form a smooth, dense sorbet. Depending on brand, similar quantities of Citrus Pectin or Agar should also produce good results. Gellan is pretty simple stuff to play with. Heat it, blend it, let it cool. If you stir it while it cools, it thickens but does not form a firm gel. The complexities come with the synergistic effects, which I've not really explored. The CPKelco web page has some information (http://www.cpkelco.com/gellan/index.html), and much of the Gellan chapter of Imeson's 'Thickeners and Gelling Agents for Food' is available as a Google books preview. Personally, for more traditional sorbets I think I've decided to stick with Agar and Pectin (as needed), as both of these are more easily explained as desirable ingredients. Gellan, like Xanthan, is made by bacterial fermentation of sugars, and it's just hard to make this process sound appealing in cases where one is being open about one's ingredient choices. But for stuff close to boiling, Gellan is probably your only choice (although Agar should work fine for moderately hot stuff). And the Gellan really is great for flavor release. typo

I'm not familiar with this dish, but I've played a little with gellan, and have inadvertantly made some non-melting sorbets using to much gelatin. This was a with a Pacojet, though. Pacojets deal very well with gelled bases. If I had to guess without further knowledge, I'd guess that he makes this by mixing in the gellan at a high temperature to hydrate it, letting it gel solid, then freezing and Pacotizing. My intuitive guess would be that you aren't going to have good luck duplicating this with a standard churn type ice cream maker. Maybe, though. Try it and see! Le Sanctuaire is probably your best source for gellan if you are in the US. La Tienda sells the Texturas (El Bulli) brand, which I presume is great but also very pricey. I don't think that a soft alcohol flame is going to generate very much heat, though, so you might be able to use agar, gelatin, or pectin instead and get a similar result. The effect might even be reasonable with just a scoop of any heavily stabilized sorbet. Tell us how it goes.

I think that is a good comparison, with but with a twist. While the vast majority of ice cream shops use an outside mix, there exists a high end of gelato shops who would not consider anything other than fresh ingredients. Whereas for chocolate, even the best chocolatiers (and I assume we have some of those represented here) tend to buy in their couverture. On the other hand, it's all a matter of degree. While I would like to think that a gelato shop would start would start with milk, cream, sugar and eggs rather than their premixed dried counterparts, it would never occur to me to think that they should be refining their own sugar: http://www.southernmatters.com/sugarcane/essays.htm While I wouldn't presume that the chocolate for a filled truffle was made from the bean, I would like to presume that a shop selling a 72% single-origin bar did more than buy in commercial couverture, temper, and remold. And while it may not be implied, it was sufficiently unclear that even the employee within the shop presumed that this bar was made from the bean. For me, I think it depends on the product, with the problem that 'chocolate' refers to everything from the plant to the ingredient to the finished product. But in the case of a bar, which has as its sole ingredient the bought in component, I feel uneasy. It depends on the representation, though. Have you read the Dallas Food article about Noka: http://www.dallasfood.org/modules.php?name...=article&sid=78 This is not meant to be argumentative. I'm considering entering into some part of both the chocolate and ice cream market, and am genuinely interested in where these lines are. Thanks!

There have been several threads recently about making chocolate confections, and a few in the recent past about making chocolate from the bean. Strangely, there doesn't seem to be a lot of overlap between the two. From what I can tell, the people making bonbons don't seem to be the same people experimenting with melangeurs. In English, we don't even have good terms to describe the difference, and some manufacturers gain advantage from this. Sometimes this is deceit, sometimes a convenient omission, and sometimes just an oversight. I recently bought a pricey sampler of 'single origin' chocolate bars from a high end shop based on the clerk's statements that they were made in house from the bean. Internet research showed this to be most likely false. I think this was just a poorly informed employee who was making the logical conclusion that a chocolate shop would make its own chocolate, but the manufacturer's own website certainly made no effort to clear up this confusion. What do people think about this? What would be comparisons be to other products? Is a chocolatier that uses commercial couverture like a bakery that buys pre-made flour instead of grinding its own wheat, or is it like a bakery that buys all its products frozen and par-baked and while claiming that everything is 'baked fresh daily'. My feeling is that it depends greatly on the way it is presented. Talking about 'our chocolate made from our beans' is wrong if one is simply melting down a commercially available product, but using chocolate as a basic ingredient is fine so long as this is done without deceit: I don't expect a bakery to grind its own flour, but I do expect it to make its own dough. But having recently made my own chocolate from the bean, and being surprised by the quality of the finished product, I'm surprised more people aren't interested in going this extra distance. ps. Alan McClure, the owner of Patric Chocolate, has a more coherent post on this topic up on his blog: http://www.patric-chocolate.com/store/2007...-chocolate.html

Does anyone have recommendations for brands of airpots or insulated dispensers? I'm looking for ways to keep 1-5 gallons of hot chocolate at serving temperature for about 6 hours. While hot chocolate is not quite coffee, I figured the same those of you with who deal with similar quantities of coffee might have some experience with the same equipment. It seems like my choices are multiple .5 - 1 gallon airpots, 1-3 gallon vacuum insulated dispensers, and 3-5 gallon plastic insulated dispensers. Here's some examples of what I'm looking at: Zojirushi 3 Liter Easy Serve Airpot http://www.amazon.com/Zojirushi-SRAG30-Sta...t/dp/B0000CEUQI Bunn 3.8 Liter Stainless Steel Airpot http://www.katom.com/021-367250000.html RegalWare 3 Liter Lever Pump Airpot http://www.katom.com/376-KPW9107.html Fetco Luxus Thermal Coffee Dispenser http://www.wholelattelove.com/commercial/p...s_dispenser.cfm Rubbermaid 5 Gallon Insulated Dispenser http://www.katom.com/007-9F18.html Cambro 5 Gallon Insulated Camserver http://www.katom.com/144-CSR5110.html Anyone have thoughts on these? Other things I should be looking at? Or corrections to my thinking? My current thinking is that: 1) Airpots with vacuum insulation are going to retain temperature much better than dispensers with foam. 2) Vacuum insulation with stainless steel is almost as effective for heat retention as glass, and better due to durability. 3) Airpots with lever pumps are easier to use than buttons, but that a dispenser with a pull spout will be significantly easier than both of these. 4) All else equal, one large container is going to maintain temperature better than multiple smaller containers. 5) Zojirushi and Luxus are great, but Bunn and Regalware are better value and will be just fine for light commercial use. Corrections and suggestions appreciated!

It makes for a tasty ice cream. I'm using a Pacojet, but I presume it would come out good in a traditional freezer as well. I'm using about 20 grams per liter of base. Too much and it tastes like sweet frozen pesto , but at the right amount it's a great flavor.

I'm interested as well, but also having no luck with the link.

Thanks! Unless someone else chimes in, I guess I'll start with the cheaper of the two Cambro's and see how it goes.

Currently, none of the organic chocolate that I've had is any good, which seems to support what you're saying. My friends and I have spent some time trying to find a good organic dark chocolate for making organic ice cream and sorbet, and generally agree: there isn't much overlap between good and organic when it comes to chocolate. But we did find one organic Spanish import that we all liked: Blanxart - Chocolate Ecologico Negro http://www.seventypercent.com/chocop/bar_detail.asp?ID=236 It's a very solid, very smooth, non-fruity dark chocolate. No surprises, but a rich deep slightly sour chocolate taste. They are about $20/lb retail, $12/lb food service bulk. In the Bay Area, they are available by the bar at Berkeley Bowl, but I presume they are available online as well. Avoid being confused by their non-organic line, though. They are probably what we'll use if we decide to buy pre-made, but right now we are planning to roast our own from the bean: http://chocolatealchemy.com/

This might be too specific, but does anyone have a favorite insulated pan carrier? I'm looking for top-loading single pan carriers. I'm planning to fill it with three 4" deep 1/3 pans and use it to serve ice cream at events. I'm thinking of getting the 6" deep model, and lining the bottom with 2" deep 10F ice packs underneath the pans. Here's some I'm considering: Cambro Ultra Pan Carrier http://www.atlantafixture.com/Detail.aspx?ItemId=401054 Cambro S-Series Camcarrier http://www.atlantafixture.com/Detail.aspx?ItemId=401046 Carlisle Cateraide Container http://www.katom.com/028-PC160NBL.html They vary from $110 to $200, but I can't tell what the differences are between then, and they are too expensive to buy one of each and try them. It looks like Rubbermaid makes some as well, but I haven't found one in six inch. Or are there other brands out there to consider? Thanks! (missed word)

Let me get this right: you went into a store, you tried one unspecified chocolate bar, and have now concluded that they all taste the same? Try an extremely fruity chocolate like a Scharffenberger 70% alongside a Hershey bar. While you are welcome to make the case that you prefer the Hershey bar, if they taste the same to you this indicates that you have no longer have a sense of taste. ps. Your sense of smell works quite well on the food inside your mouth as you chew.

You could, but it would be a substitution of an ingredient with similar properties rather than an equivalent. A mixture of dextrose, maltose, maltotriose, and some maltodextrins would be a better substitute, if searching for a true equivalent. In practice, though, a dissolving dextrose in water will probably work, since the reason the recipe is calling for glucose syrup is just to have some quantity of a lower sweetness sugar. "Corn Syrup" in America and "Glucose Syrup" abroad are true synonyms, with the caveat that some syrups (of each name) can have different dextrose equivalents. Dextrose equivalent is a measure of how completely the starch (often corn starch) has been hydrolyzed. If a recipe were to call for a 100DE syrup, then dextrose monohydrate in solution would be the same. But most recipes want a partially hydrolyzed 42DE syrup. Here's a link that offers some explanation: http://www.arasco.com/en/products/glucose_starch/faqs.asp There are many other links that talk about corn syrup properties, but with these you have to translate back and forth between different word choices.

Although chemists define glucose and dextrose as the same, recipes that call for glucose are referring to glucose syrup, aka corn syrup to Americans. Corn syrup is high in dextrose, but also has a lot of larger sugars. So dextrose would be a better substitute than sucrose (table sugar) but the recipe will need modification.