Common Food Mispronunciations and Misnomers

[danielito]

here is a combination "Mispronunciation and Misnomer"

pilaf.

for starters, it is pronounced pee-lav, NOT pee-laf

second, the translation of pilaf is rice.

so when a menu lists "rice pilaf", it literally means "rice rice".

STOP IT! IT'S STUPID!

call it rice, or call it pilaf, but stop calling it rice pilaf, it makes no sense.

No need to shout!! Especially when you may be wrong.

According to Merriam-Webster it is pronounced pi-ˈläf

Also according to Merriam-Webster pilaf is "a dish made of seasoned rice and often meat"

The Oxford Companion to Food describes pilaf as "a Middle Eastern method of cooking rice so that every grain remains separate, and the name of the resulting dish".

[heidih]

One of the funniest misnomers for me is Der Wienerschnitzel. A hot dog fast food place! Wrong on so many levels. My dad's packing plant was supplying them in the early days and I know he mentioned it to the principal in a joking way. We just kind of shook our heads. Dad had been a butcher for years in Austria near Wien (Vienna - the Wiener in the Schnitzel) plus the article is wrong. Anyway as with all of this transplanted terminology, I take it with humor unless it becomes ridiculous ignorance based snobbery as others have noted.

[Heartsurgeon]

"No need to shout!! Especially when you may be wrong.

According to Merriam-Webster it is pronounced pi-ˈläf

Also according to Merriam-Webster pilaf is "a dish made of seasoned rice and often meat"

The Oxford Companion to Food describes pilaf as "a Middle Eastern method of cooking rice so that every grain remains separate, and the name of the resulting dish". "

I'm not wrong (truthfully, I'm never wrong).

Pilaf is derivative from the Turkish word pilav, which means....rice.

But please feel free to continue calling it rice rice!

Edited March 30, 2012 by Heartsurgeon (log)

[Hassouni]

Which is in turn derived from Persian polo/polow, which doesn't mean rice in general, but rather a category of preparations of rice. That being sad, nobody in Persian would say rice polo.... Just as nobody says rice risotto.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Hassouni (log)

[Nich]

Structurally, a pecan pie and a Chicago deep dish sausage pizza have a lot in common with each other.

I'm a lot happier with a pizza being a tart than a pie.

Unless we're going to start referring to sandwiches as pies, and then all bets are off.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

Sandwiches aren't pie - they're a completely separate food group....

(For the record, the food groups I'm referring to are: sandwiches, fried things, pies/tarts, and malt beverages. Everything else is extraneous. )

---

Nich - Going back to what you're saying, though, a pizza is a tart because it has no upper crust, yes? By the same logic, is a pecan pie also a tart then?

Hassouni - how do you react to people who use the term "quinua risotto" then? I thought that risotto, unlike pilaf, was a cooking technique rather than the rice itself (which is riso).

[Mjx]

. . . . I thought that risotto, unlike pilaf, was a cooking technique rather than the rice itself (which is riso).

Although risotto does involve a basic technique – keeping the starch (rather than rinsing it off) and long cooking in liquid, so the starch gelatinizes, making for a creamy consistency – if it doesn't involve rice, it isn't risotto, but 'risotto' (in Italy, anyway).

[Panaderia Canadiense]

So what would you call other grains or starches prepared using the same technique (I mean, other than using the air quotes)? Creamy quinua?

[ambra]

In Italy, they call it farrotto.

[Mjx]

So what would you call other grains or starches prepared using the same technique (I mean, other than using the air quotes)? Creamy quinua?

Quinua... something. Or 'something' quinua. The 'something' providing the appropriate descriptor (I wouldn't imagine you could get that consistency from quinua and liquid alone, though, since you have to rinse it, and there goes any external starch, too). But if rice isn't the predominant ingredient, it wouldn't be regarded as risotto by most Italians.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

au jus isn't a French word any more, it's an English word with French origins. I think we've all pretty much given up on "paninis" and au jus is about at the same point.

It's at times like this I wish you Americans would find another word for the language you use and abuse. "Au jus" is not an English word (or even a word) it's a phrase...

Well, to be fair, the tendency to misuse/mispronounce foreign lanaguage terms isn't unique, or even most pronounced in the US, it's prevalent the world over (e.g. upthread, I mentioned the use of the word 'grape' for 'grapefruit' in Denmark; I could also mention 'expresso' pronounced as 'exPRAHso', and heaps of other misuses and mispronunciations... and don't get me started on the things that happen to foreign language terms in Italy). But for better or worse, the American language is still English.

I'm in total agreement with MJX. Anybody who's ever travelled or lived in Latin America will be astounded when they discover that a SAN-doo-che (spelt Sanduche) is not a sandwich they're familiar with (those would be tostados mixtos), and that they can get a BOOR-gwair (burguer, properly an hamburguesa but even that term is disappearing!) There are many other charming things happening to English down here (I'll see if I can find a picture of our local Soon Burguer, House Chicken, or the Sunglass Hat). For better or worse, our language down here is Castellano (sort of), the same way that the American language is English (sort of.) It's the nature of language to change, shift, and appropriate terms - heck, English wouldn't even be a language without the appropriations.... Feh, mucho ruido, pocas nueces.

Even so, and even if the dictionaries list it as a correct plural, I still think it sounds like nails on a chalkboard when somebody says "shrimps" and isn't referring to verb for the process of fishing said critters (ie "Manolo shrimps for a living," but never "Manolo is eating shrimps for dinner.")

[mkayahara]

"Hi, Domino's? Yes, I'd like to order two pizze..."

[Jaymes]

au jus isn't a French word any more, it's an English word with French origins. I think we've all pretty much given up on "paninis" and au jus is about at the same point.

It's at times like this I wish you Americans would find another word for the language you use and abuse. "Au jus" is not an English word (or even a word) it's a phrase...

Well, to be fair, the tendency to misuse/mispronounce foreign lanaguage terms isn't unique, or even most pronounced in the US, it's prevalent the world over...

I'm in total agreement with MJX. ...

Even so, and even if the dictionaries list it as a correct plural, I still think it sounds like nails on a chalkboard when somebody says "shrimps" and isn't referring to verb for the process of fishing said critters (ie "Manolo shrimps for a living," but never "Manolo is eating shrimps for dinner.")

Well, anytime you have over seven-billion human beings using something, in this case language, there are going to be a few anomalies.

I'll confess I'm a "shrimps" offender. Having lived several places where "shrimps" is the norm, at first I repeated it a time or two because I thought it was cute, but then it sorta crawled into my lexicon and got stuck.

Interesting that that one doesn't bother me so much. I guess because it's primarily a natural conclusion reached by people for whom English is a difficult challenge, and they've learned that, in English, most plurals are created by adding an "s" to the singular. So "shrimps" makes sense. At least they're trying.

The "broo-SHETTA" thing in the US, though, puzzles me. I mean, we manage to get right that hard Italian "ch" in so many other words: mocha, zucchini, gnocchi, Chianti, just to name a few.

How did bruschetta get so screwed up?

ETA: And none of this pronunciation thing bothers me so much as the abuse of the apostrophe. Just a few days ago, I was reading a menu that listed the various categories: Appetizers, Soups, Salads, etc.

And then it got to: Steak's.

Speaking of the possessive, which we suddenly are, what on Earth could have possessed them to inexplicably throw in that apostrophe when they hadn't talked about "Appetizer's, Soup's, Salad's"?

And one of the "Steak's" was "served in it's own juice."

Nobody's perfect, and the exact rules of grammar can be argued endlessly by scholars, but really, how hard is it to distinguish between "it's" and "its"? I posit that it's not difficult at all. One is a contraction. So, would they have meant the above to read, as it properly would, "served in it is own juice"? Of course not.

This menu looked to be professionally printed. Couldn't someone somewhere along the line do a little proofreading? If the owner/manager/whomever isn't really good with grammar and punctuation, is it asking too much to have someone else read it over before investing your money in a final product that would be difficult and expensive to change?

Hardly Earth-shattering issues. Minor irritants. Minor, but just irritating enough to keep us all chattering.

Right?

And so interesting that one person's complaint-worthy irritant is always somebody else's no big deal.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Jaymes (log)

[mkayahara]

While we're at it, we should also eliminate "sautéed" from the lexicon, since "sauté" is already a past participle.

[Hassouni]

Hassouni - how do you react to people who use the term "quinua risotto" then? I thought that risotto, unlike pilaf, was a cooking technique rather than the rice itself (which is riso).

Well, that's OK by me since it's unusual and specifying the deviation.

[Hassouni]

au jus isn't a French word any more, it's an English word with French origins. I think we've all pretty much given up on "paninis" and au jus is about at the same point.

It's at times like this I wish you Americans would find another word for the language you use and abuse. "Au jus" is not an English word (or even a word) it's a phrase...

Well, to be fair, the tendency to misuse/mispronounce foreign lanaguage terms isn't unique, or even most pronounced in the US, it's prevalent the world over...

I'm in total agreement with MJX. ...

Even so, and even if the dictionaries list it as a correct plural, I still think it sounds like nails on a chalkboard when somebody says "shrimps" and isn't referring to verb for the process of fishing said critters (ie "Manolo shrimps for a living," but never "Manolo is eating shrimps for dinner.")

Well, anytime you have over seven-billion human beings using something, in this case language, there are going to be a few anomalies.

I'll confess I'm a "shrimps" offender. Having lived several places where "shrimps" is the norm, at first I repeated it a time or two because I thought it was cute, but then it sorta crawled into my lexicon and got stuck.

Interesting that that one doesn't bother me so much. I guess because it's primarily a natural conclusion reached by people for whom English is a difficult challenge, and they've learned that, in English, most plurals are created by adding an "s" to the singular. So "shrimps" makes sense. At least they're trying.

The "broo-SHETTA" thing in the US, though, puzzles me. I mean, we manage to get right that hard Italian "ch" in so many other words: mocha, zucchini, gnocchi, Chianti, just to name a few.

How did bruschetta get so screwed up?

ETA: And none of this pronunciation thing bothers me so much as the abuse of the apostrophe. Just a few days ago, I was reading a menu that listed the various categories: Appetizers, Soups, Salads, etc.

And then it got to: Steak's.

Speaking of the possessive, which we suddenly are, what on Earth could have possessed them to inexplicably throw in that apostrophe when they hadn't talked about "Appetizer's, Soup's, Salad's"?

And one of the "Steak's" was "served in it's own juice."

Nobody's perfect, and the exact rules of grammar can be argued endlessly by scholars, but really, how hard is it to distinguish between "it's" and "its"? I posit that it's not difficult at all. One is a contraction. So, would they have meant the above to read, as it properly would, "served in it is own juice"? Of course not.

This menu looked to be professionally printed. Couldn't someone somewhere along the line do a little proofreading? If the owner/manager/whomever isn't really good with grammar and punctuation, is it asking too much to have someone else read it over before investing your money in a final product that would be difficult and expensive to change?

Hardly Earth-shattering issues. Minor irritants. Minor, but just irritating enough to keep us all chattering.

Right?

And so interesting that one person's complaint-worthy irritant is always somebody else's no big deal.

I think bruschetta got so woefully mispronounced thanks to the s and c in Italian being a sh, and maybe an unconscious influence from German where the sch is also a sh.

As for the apostrophe plurals, almost nothing drives me more crazy, especially when it's inconsistent!

[ruthcooks]

Re: the apostrophe thing...

The worst case I've seen was right here on eG: pea's

[Jaymes]

Re: the apostrophe thing...

The worst case I've seen was right here on eG: pea's

That's pretty egregious, all right. And kind of funny for some reason.

But I give folks on eG a pass. We have people posting here from all over the world and, for many, English is a second language. I'd hate to miss out on a great recipe for ceviche or stifado or harissa or something because someone was uncertain about their limited English skills and was afraid to post.

For that matter, even a native English speaker with a limited education might be able to whip up a sublime Grits & Red Eye Gravy and be happy to tell me how to do it but be hesitant to post because of embarrassment regarding his or her language skills.

But a mistake that egregious on a printed menu in the US? Sorry, no pass.

That's inexcusable.

And, back to the hard Italian "ch" in bruschetta and our collective failure to get it right...

I thought of another Italian "ch" word that we've all been pronouncing correctly since childhood.

Pinocchio.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Jaymes (log)

[Karri]

I am working in Spain at the moment, and we serve quite a bit of Carpaccio. Now the Spaniards here don't pronounce it in the italian way, but as "carpassio". As you would in Spanish. Regional variants...

Panaderia Canadiense, do people really speak Castellano in South America?

[Panaderia Canadiense]

I am working in Spain at the moment, and we serve quite a bit of Carpaccio. Now the Spaniards here don't pronounce it in the italian way, but as "carpassio". As you would in Spanish. Regional variants...

Panaderia Canadiense, do people really speak Castellano in South America?

Sort of. The same way that Americans sort of speak English and Quebecois sort of speak French. (Which is why that's bracketed in my earlier post.) What South Americans speak is sort of a somewhat corrupted form of Castellano from about 100 years before the distinción (soft C pronounced as TH) was introduced to the language. Hence, while somebody from Castille would say "thervesa" we say "servesa" for cerveza (the first example of the distinción that occurs to me at this late hour), and the words casa and caza are homophones. This is particularly evident in the Ecuadorian province of Loja, where the language has been preserved almost exactly as the conquistadores are thought to have spoken it - the Real Academia has actually done studies on this.

In addition to the ceceo, most forms of Latin American Castellano also incorporate words from the precolumbian languages of their areas; hence, Ecuadorian Castellano is distinct from, say, Colombian in that Ecuadorian includes a great number of Quichua and Shuara words into the general lexicon, while Colombian tends more towards Muisca and Tairona words, and the Peruvian and Bolivian Castellano that also include Quichua will include different words from those of Ecuador, simply because the Quichua spoken in Peru and Bolivia is quite different from that spoken in Ecuador. And so on.

If that's confusing, consider that only an Ecuadorian will use the word "Chuchaqui" to describe being hung over - the rest of Latin America uses "resacado." Also consider that in Ecuador and Colombia, an avocado is an Aguacate, while in Peru and Bolivia it's a Palta. Also consider the regional differences in the pronunciation of the letter LL - in some countries, most notably in Chile and Argentina, it's arrastrado (pronounced sort of like sh or zh), while in others, like Ecuador and parts of northern Peru, it's elido (pronounced l'y) and still others it's pronounced more like z (Colombia and Venezuela are like this). So, it's sort of Castellano. It's got the same grammar and structure, and shares a basic vocabulary. But really it has as much in common as Quebecois does to Parisian.

Oh, and it's also worth noting that Latin Americans make merciless fun of Spaniards for the perception of lisping that goes with the distinción. Nobody down here would be caught dead ordering a thervesa - it's considered to be a very effeminate way to speak and if you're a Latino man that's the last thing you want anybody to think of you....

ETA - and when it comes to Carpaccio, most Latin Americans will look at it and pronounce it "Carpaxio" with the x sound being closest to ks. Those who have a bit more culinary education will pronounce it "Carpachio" (and it's often spelt this way on menus in places that offer it.) The changed spelling is actually quite common with words that would have an awkward pronunciaiton otherwise - focaccia becomes focachia, etc.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Panaderia Canadiense (log)

[Karri]

I am working in Spain at the moment, and we serve quite a bit of Carpaccio. Now the Spaniards here don't pronounce it in the italian way, but as "carpassio". As you would in Spanish. Regional variants...

Panaderia Canadiense, do people really speak Castellano in South America?

Sort of. The same way that Americans sort of speak English and Quebecois sort of speak French. (Which is why that's bracketed in my earlier post.) What South Americans speak is sort of a somewhat corrupted form of Castellano from about 100 years before the distinción (soft C pronounced as TH) was introduced to the language. Hence, while somebody from Castille would say "thervesa" we say "servesa" for cerveza (the first example of the distinción that occurs to me at this late hour), and the words casa and caza are homophones. This is particularly evident in the Ecuadorian province of Loja, where the language has been preserved almost exactly as the conquistadores are thought to have spoken it - the Real Academia has actually done studies on this.

In addition to the ceceo, most forms of Latin American Castellano also incorporate words from the precolumbian languages of their areas; hence, Ecuadorian Castellano is distinct from, say, Colombian in that Ecuadorian includes a great number of Quichua and Shuara words into the general lexicon, while Colombian tends more towards Muisca and Tairona words, and the Peruvian and Bolivian Castellano that also include Quichua will include different words from those of Ecuador, simply because the Quichua spoken in Peru and Bolivia is quite different from that spoken in Ecuador. And so on.

If that's confusing, consider that only an Ecuadorian will use the word "Chuchaqui" to describe being hung over - the rest of Latin America uses "resacado." Also consider that in Ecuador and Colombia, an avocado is an Aguacate, while in Peru and Bolivia it's a Palta. Also consider the regional differences in the pronunciation of the letter LL - in some countries, most notably in Chile and Argentina, it's arrastrado (pronounced sort of like sh or zh), while in others, like Ecuador and parts of northern Peru, it's elido (pronounced l'y) and still others it's pronounced more like z (Colombia and Venezuela are like this). So, it's sort of Castellano. It's got the same grammar and structure, and shares a basic vocabulary. But really it has as much in common as Quebecois does to Parisian.

Oh, and it's also worth noting that Latin Americans make merciless fun of Spaniards for the perception of lisping that goes with the distinción. Nobody down here would be caught dead ordering a thervesa - it's considered to be a very effeminate way to speak and if you're a Latino man that's the last thing you want anybody to think of you....

ETA - and when it comes to Carpaccio, most Latin Americans will look at it and pronounce it "Carpaxio" with the x sound being closest to ks. Those who have a bit more culinary education will pronounce it "Carpachio" (and it's often spelt this way on menus in places that offer it.) The changed spelling is actually quite common with words that would have an awkward pronunciaiton otherwise - focaccia becomes focachia, etc.

Thank you very much, this has been very educational!

I work on the Canary Islands, and here they identify themselves as speaking 'Isleno', which does not follow the Castellano speech patterns. cerveza is a servesa, and the doouble l is a kind of "y". Yes, my dentist is Argentinian, and I find myself struggling when her sentences contain words beginning with ys and double ls...

[Panaderia Canadiense]

Canario or Isleño has a lot in common with Latin American Castellano as it's spoken in Ecuador, actually. It has to do with a large number of Canarios emigrating here when the whole colony was still just the Real Audiencia de Perú. Incidentally, they're also the ones who brought bananas to Latin America....

[Panaderia Canadiense]

... and speaking of bananas, I came across a fairly egregious problem today. Not technically a mispronunciation or misnomer so much as terrible grammar, but all the same:

Banana usually eats fresh....

No, no, no. No it doesn't. Bananas don't eat anything - they're not animals. They're fruit. They're incapable of what's being suggested. I'm sure what's intended in that sentence is "Bananas are usually eaten fresh" and it's not like adding one tiny little article and ensuring subject-verb agreement would have caused the layout an insufferable runover....

Can anybody tell me when the standards for English grammar in established publications dropped this far? Please?

(edited for grammar... )

Edited April 27, 2012 by Panaderia Canadiense (log)

[ElsieD]

How is dulce de leche pronounced?

[Hassouni]

http://translate.google.com/#en|es|dulce%20de%20leche%20 click on the speaker icon in the bottom right