Pressure Cookers: 2011 and beyond

[vimaladevi]

I was wondering if anyone has compared the kohn pressure cookers to the fagor? I have this kohn, no complaints and looking buying the larger size, but the fagor seems to be a bit less expensive...

thanks!

Edited May 21, 2013 by vimaladevi (log)

[Miss Priss]

I was wondering if anyone has compared the kohn pressure cookers to the fagor? I have this kohn, no complaints and looking buying the larger size, but the fagor seems to be a bit less expensive...

thanks!

I have the Kuhn Rikon Duromatic 5.25 liter and 2-liter set, and the Fagor Elite (one pressure setting) 8-liter and 4-liter set. For what it's worth, my Fagor was purchased some time ago and was made in Spain, not China. I like them both, but I prefer the Kuhn Rikon because it's easier to tell when full pressure has been reached, easier to tell whether pressure is being maintained, and, since it doesn't release any steam, requires less liquid. The interior finish of the Kuhn Rikon is also a bit smoother than the Fagor's, making it a bit easier to clean. I suspect that the Kuhn Rikon's aluminum disc base is thicker than the Fagor's, but it's hard to tell because the Fagor's is encapsulated. The fact that the Kuhn's disc doesn't extend to the edges of the pot doesn't concern me, as I've never had any problems with scorching on that account.

[glepore]

From a totally different perspective, I'm using a MIU France 8qt from ebay. Under $50 shipped, appears to be either a Fagor knockoff or made in the same factory...works as advertised. Parts support seems sketchy at best, but we'll see, and at the price I'll just buy another if it pukes...

[Silhorn]

Hello,

I've been doing some googling on cooking with pressure cookers. One thing that is said is that people usually put too much water in thinking that they have to submerge the food in water for it to cook properly.

Does this also refer to cooking dried beans in the pressure cooker? Can i submerge my dried beans only half way and it will all still be cooked evenly?

[sparrowgrass]

No. Dried beans will absorb a lot of water, and if you only put a little in, you will end up with crunchy and probably burned beans.

[pazzaglia]

The use of too much water in pressure cooker refers to braises or saute's converted to the pressure cooker. Since there is very little evaporation of the cooking liquid, and the food itself contributes liquid (that would otherwise evaporate in conventional cooking) you can find yourself boiling what you intended to braise.

However, food that would conventionally be boiled would also be boiled in the pressure cooker. This includes beans.

The most important thing you need to know about beans in the pressure cooker is that the maximum fill rules change. Where with most foods you should not fill the cooker more than 2/3 when it comes to beans (and any grain, fruit or any food that would foam and expand during cooking) the you should not fill your cooker more than 1/2 way. This includes the water, by-the-way. This is to ensure that neither the food (or the foam it produces) can interfere with the safety valves in the lid.

Another way to ensure the valves are not obstructed is to open the cooker with a Natural Release.

I wrote a whole guide about pressure cooking beans. I hope you find the information in it helpful:

http://www.hippressurecooking.com/cannellini-and-mint-bean-salad-lesson-4-quick-soaking-beans/

Ciao,

L

Edited June 9, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[Ttogull]

I cook a lot of beans. As said above, you need plenty of water for the beans to absorb. How much you need, however, depends on some things.

I never soak my beans. I find 8 cups of liquid is just right for me for most beans for conventional cooking (some beans, slightly less). For PC, I usually use 3/4ths that, or 6 cups. If you soak your beans, these amounts would likely be different.

I have not verified it, but one source says not soaking requires 4 times longer cooking in a PC. The longer times seemed about right.

ETA that's for 1lb dry beans.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Ttogull (log)

[Silhorn]

I understand.

Thanks for your replies

[Beusho]

The reviews on here are interesting. Cook's Illustrated, a trusted source for me, this year gave high recommendations for the Fagor Duo and the Vitaquick, and interestingly gave the lowest review to WMF perfect and wasn't positive about Kuhn Rikon. Mostly it was vessel diameter (smaller diameter more scorching, knocking on Kuhn) and maintaing a consistent temp, suprisingly only the vitaquick could reach 250 and hold it with Fagor Duo coming in a hair below with many of the others not reaching it and some having large fluctuations.

Given this I sprung for the Fagor Duo this week. My question for those who have the Duo, what's the white powder on the gasket?

Edited June 14, 2013 by Beusho (log)

[GlorifiedRice]

Ive decided to buy The Instant Pot

http://instantpot.com/

It is a pressure cooker, slow cooker, soup maker, rice cooker etc

I dont have a slow cooker or a pressure cooker so Voila!

BTW there is a rice cooker on Amazon for $3000.00 YES three thousand

[GlorifiedRice]

The reviews on here are interesting. Cook's Illustrated, a trusted source for me, this year gave high recommendations for the Fagor Duo and the Vitaquick, and interestingly gave the lowest review to WMF perfect and wasn't positive about Kuhn Rikon. Mostly it was vessel diameter (smaller diameter more scorching, knocking on Kuhn) and maintaing a consistent temp, suprisingly only the vitaquick could reach 250 and hold it with Fagor Duo coming in a hair below with many of the others not reaching it and some having large fluctuations.

Given this I sprung for the Fagor Duo this week. My question for those who have the Duo, what's the white powder on the gasket?

If its a latex seal its probably lubricant or dehumidifying powder. It keeps the latex from accidentally getting mushy during shipment or sitting on the shelf for long periods before purchase

[pazzaglia]

Silicone gaskets are made in a mold that is coated with a powder to keep the silicone from sticking and pressure cookers are shined with a petroleum- based oil before boxing.

You don't want to eat any of this stuff. Wash every part of the pressure cooker well before using.

Ciao,

L

P.S. Congrats on your new pressure cooker!

Edited June 14, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[Miss Priss]

From a totally different perspective, I'm using a MIU France 8qt from ebay. Under $50 shipped, appears to be either a Fagor knockoff or made in the same factory...works as advertised. Parts support seems sketchy at best, but we'll see, and at the price I'll just buy another if it pukes...

From what I've seen, the MIU France is more likely a knockoff of the Magefesa Practika Plus (also sold under the brand name ELO) than of any Fagor model. I have a small Practika Plus (yes, yes, too many pressure cookers) and find it very reliable and easy to use. Hopefully the MIU will serve you equally well.

[KennethT]

I had a question about food safety and pressure cookers about this specific situation:

I make a stock that sits at full pressure for at least an hour, which is then naturally cooled. For how long can I keep this on the stove-top with the lid undisturbed without having a huge problem?

Theoretically, the contents of the pot are basically steralized, and since it's a sealed system, no new bacteria can enter.

I wasn't planning on having it sit for days, but I was hoping I could make stock in the morning, then turn off the heat before leaving for the rest of the day and coming back in the evening. Granted, in my pot, it takes over an hour just for the pressure to reduce to atmospheric to open the lid, and it stays probably over 180F for another hour or two... I just don't know how long it would be sitting in the "danger zone", and if the DZ even applies in this case....

[Martin Fisher]

Theoretically, the contents of the pot are basically steralized,

"Theoretically" isn't good enough, either it's sterilized enough to kill potentially dangerous spores or not. I would play it safe, assume it's not and follow the "rules."

"Bending the Rules on Bacteria" (cooked stock left on the stove) by Harold McGee (New York Times).......

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/dining/bending-the-rules-on-bacteria-and-food-safety.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[pazzaglia]

Theoretically, the contents of the pot are basically steralized, and since it's a sealed system, no new bacteria can enter.

Technically, once the pressure cooker has lost pressure the vessel is no longer sealed.

At the beginning of pressure cooking the pressure cooker expels all of the air and then seals shut just as it begins to build pressure. As you know, if there is too much pressure, the valve opens to release it without letting in any air. However, when the pressure comes down and - eventually - there is no more pressure in the cooker the valve un-locks and air (and whatever else) enter the cooker, again.

The same food safety rules apply to pressure cooked food as with any other cooking method.

Ciao,

L

[demo]

I would be suprised if the temperature will be in the "dangerzone" long enough. Make a test! Cook up water in your PC and let it sit on the stove for t-4hours and measure the temperature. Is it below 55C? It depends of course on how long your day is, and room temp and PC insulation. Throw a towel over the PC or put it in the stove (w/o heat on, or on very low heat if you have an electric oven.)

Also the food safety expert aproved Mr McGee's method because he reboiled in the morning.

K

[KennethT]

Thanks all for the thoughts. I realized after I posted (and left the apt with no access to a computer) that once the pressure is reduced, the pot is no longer sealed.

With that in mind, however, it is still a covered system, keeping evaporative cooling to a minimum, so it does cool very slowly, even without any insulation. The shiny metal pot is a poor radiator of heat, and heat losses due to air convection is low also since the airflow in the kitchen is poor unless the vent is on. So, yes, it does take hours to even get to 160 deg F, let alone 130-140 deg F which is still a temp too high for bacteria to multiply.

To get an exact figure, I'd have to run cool down tests and check temp every half hour or so. I know it's not completely exact since every time I open the pot, I get evap cooling, but it would give me a more conservative figure.

[Ttogull]

Another possibility is preheating your oven to its lowest temp, say, 170 degrees and placing the whole PC in it after it has depressurized. Turn the oven off when you do, i guess. I haven't tried this, so maybe some testing would be in order.

Or put the whole pot wrapped in towels inside a good cooler and then cover the cooler lid with towels. I do this for smoked pork butt and that will stay hot a LONG time.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Ttogull (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I may be able to finally afford a pressure cooker by the end of this week. I'm still leaning to the Vitaquick. Does anyone have new experiences to share that might affect my decision? The Anova circulator is tugging at my sleeve but I think I need a pressure cooker more.

[chippy]

I may be able to finally afford a pressure cooker by the end of this week. I'm still leaning to the Vitaquick. Does anyone have new experiences to share that might affect my decision? The Anova circulator is tugging at my sleeve but I think I need a pressure cooker more.

only positive experiences from me Jo .

i was willing to spend as much as was necessary to get the 'best' , i had some money burning a hole in my pocket at the time. so i was in knots trying to decide on which one. my final contenders/ choices came down to the Fissler Vitaquick, the Euro fissler with the timer or Kuhn Rikon. i have no doubt that other brands do fine but those were simply my choices.

the internet is full of good reviews about the KR cookers, but quite a few people mention that one needs to tweek/fiddle the flame just right to get it to sit in the perfect place on the valve (white line), that didnt concern me too much, i assumed it would be easy enough (somehow i would be different) and any difficulty in that or that some say the KR is slightly noisier would be outweighed by their stylish good looks and what looks like a robust valve system, i also particularly liked their non standard extra very wide braising size pans for certain purposes, but not for most meals , i noticed that parts could be purchased for their valves readily at many places and it looks easy enough to replace the parts if the need ever arose.

i was also pretty keen to get the euro & australian fissler version (officially Australia gets the euro version but in fact the USA version can be had here as well), one because they look better ,just the valves and knobs etc, the pans are the same, more particularly the indicators and the top of the range model that has timers that beep when its done or if it pressure goes too low or too high. not having (sorta) used a pressure cooker since i was a little kid (the old type that rattle and if you open the lid too early the soup ended up on the ceiling) i thought , perhaps due to a little trepidation, that might be a good idea since i dont always stand at the stove and often walk to the other room to glimpse the TV or whatever sometimes.

however, my kids (young adults) talked me out of the timer version, said it might just be gimmicks or too much gadgety that even if it worked we could probably do without, so i crossed that off my list (reluctantly at the time) so it was down to the Euro/Australian fissler second or third from top model, that frankly looks nicer but i ended up buying the USA vitaquick model due to price i just couldnt resist, i got the two pan set which uses one top shared between two pans. a great economical way to buy them and now that we have been using them i dont even think about how the indicator looks or anything else, it just works, its easy enough to see so thats fine and dandy. the american test kitchen rated it the highest and even though our own much praised and admired pazzaglia (me too i have one of her books to try out soon) is less than keen on their review i thought it was as professional as could be expected with computers being used to to measure temp and pressures. Laura reviewed the Euro model with the timer and had a very bad day with it leaving it empty on the fired up stove top for 5 min or so with nothing in it to overheat ruining the base probably didnt help the overall impressions it gave her

so we have been using the vitaquick for some months now, guessing about six or so, couple of times a week at least for family but some days , a couple or so each week it gets used two or three times a day, since two of my lads work a second job and play night time sports they filter into the home at different times through the night. i don't like them using a deep fryer at night (the smell through the house at 10-12pm of a deep fryer is disgusting to me, takes ages to heat up and then cook) and i'm not keen if they decide to do a fry up using a frypan on top of the stove late at night either, sitting back watching a movie or reading but sounds and smells like a fast food kitchen, yuk. microwave i dont care, its just a reheat device around here mostly and they would often put water in the pasta pan and cook up some pasta which takes ages to do and uses much energy which costs a lot down our way. so the pressure cooker has opened up a much better menu to them which i like because obviously their my kids and i want them to eat well and healthily, i dont mind them doing a quick browning of a protein and then the lid goes on or it does rice or pasta much quicker than the traditional way (many many different sauce recipes for pasta, in an instant, which they love)

we also have a sous vide immersion device much like your mentioned Anova , i think as time goes on their will be so many brands we couldn't poke at stick at and the prices are getting cheaper all the time as a result, mine is a SWID Addelice, a euro machine that was a good (half) price at the time compared to the considered top brand we all know. i had a quick look on utube of the Anova, it looks fine but i didnt see any details about how much power it had, it seemed to take a very long time to heat the water to temp (21min according to the utube) whereas mine is mere a fraction of that , mine is also about 2400w on 240v from memory so that might be where the differences lye. assuming the Anova has less power it probably doesn't matter much though, for one, sous vide isnt about being fast and also you could use hot water from the tap or boil some water in a kettle to be close to temp to start with, the machine can then just do its job and regulate which doesn't require a high power output. what i like about the Anova is the shield/cover is all around the heater element which shields the bags from touching the element, although it does look to not have enough ventilation holes in it, it probably doesn't effect it in reality though, on my machine it is close to letting a bag slide in behind and touch the heater element , it hasn't yet but i am always watching it, being handy i will probably make something to finish it off. the other thing that sticks out to me is how high the machine is , more particularly the height needed for emersion, it appears very long. it would be worth checking the minimum ness depth of water needed to use the machine in case you dont have a have vessel deep enough or need to purchase that as well, as a comparison the SWID fits in very shallow water, without checking probably 4"-5". i use it in my sink at the moment, i have duel kitchen sink with one being very shallow , using it in the sink frees up the stove top for other cooking which has been beneficial

as for which you should buy first, well it is purely your own call and what excites you the most at the time...my view is sous vide and pressure cooking are different methods not competing methods, sous vide takes some time, not hands on time but time none the less, i dont go for the common stories that it is so tender its like nothing you can cook without it, i did various extensive comparisons a few months ago with beef all identical from same cut and beast, cooked at different lengths sous vide (from 1-12 hours) and some on pan and some over charcoal and some in extremely low (slow cook) oven then fired over charcaol to finish and we found that the longer you sous vide the drier it got, it may have been more tender but not nearly as nice because it was drier/ less juicy. a lot of this sous vide hype around the net is largely , i think the word is hyperbole . not that i am against it, i still think it has a great place and great results, but it has its restrictions, i find sous vide is kinda fool proof, so a young or inexperienced cook can get it just right, so long as they dont stuff up the browning stage, however cut and quality of meat no matter what anyone says still makes a huge difference, it can rank above cooking in pan because unless you have extreme heat not readily available to ammeter cooks the protein gets cooked/crusted too deep which affects tenderness and juices. i reckon, that the best thing any cook can have experienced or not is a decent thermometer not one of those turkey analogue things, but a high quality digital thermometer. even cooking sous vide you need it because the meat comes out unappealing and needs flaming/grilling/brazing/browning not just for looks but flavour so it helps to know what temp your serving

my pick is first a digi thermometer, then a pressure cooker because for me it serves more work (for me), sous vide is better for weekend or perhaps dinner parities with too many people you have trouble cooking for. even in the pressure cooker though is not perfect, i have made and developed some wonderful casseroles over the years, some indian dishes we all love around here better than any restaurant but we cant duplicate it 'perfectly' in the pressure cooker but considering in the pressure cooker takes a mere fraction of the time its not bad at all and we have near on perfect meals midweek or when busy, and sometimes cooking the traditional way in pot or in oven can be overdone and make meat tuff (go past tender) even if sauce is still beautiful . pressure cooker makes meat 90-97% as good as best possible outcome conventionally but better than many times because it is quite easy to overcook conventionally (if the belief is longer cook makes more tender meat you reach a point where it goes tuff again) but unfortunately pressure cooker doesn't develop the sauce/gravy quite as well as a very long slow cook, it can be concentrated after to enhance but long slow cook is best but often not always practical . i think pressure cooker is best choice to a soud vide but it depends on your household habits. obviously my vitaquick has been put through its paces, over a number of months and still looks and works like new so i cant complain about it at all, quite happy here.

best of luck

cheers

chippy

Edited September 11, 2013 by chippy (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Chippy, thanks for relating your positive experience with the Vitaquick. I am in the US so the Vitaquick is the only easy to get Fissler model, although in my experience it's not too difficult to order European cookware from amazon.fr (except for the cost, of course).

I was not thinking to use the Anova for the same things as the pressure cooker. Both the Anova and a pressure cooker would let me prepare things in ways that I cannot currently make, that's why they were linked in my mind.

I have a good thermometer. Which makes me think it would be nice if there were some way to measure temperature inside a pressure cooker. I realize if all the air is expelled from a pressure cooker, the temperature can be calculated from the pressure. Does anyone know if the Vitaquick allows all the air to be expelled, or does the pressure valve shut off before that happens?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

From reading reviews on Amazon there are reports that (at least as of a month or two ago) Fissler is shipping some Vitaquick models with the wrong manual, and that the units don't reach 1 bar pressure. Has anyone experienced this first hand? I want so much to like the Vitaquick.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Does anyone know if the Vitaquick allows all the air to be expelled, or does the pressure valve shut off before that happens?

Having read this whole thread again (for the third or fourth time) I believe Pazzaglia answered my question in her post #236. If I understand correctly, I think the short answer is "yes". I hope.

[lindag]

I have two of the Vitaquick cookers and both perform perfectly. The manuals were correct.

Purchased thru Amazon.

From reading reviews on Amazon there are reports that (at least as of a month or two ago) Fissler is shipping some Vitaquick models with the wrong manual, and that the units don't reach 1 bar pressure. Has anyone experienced this first hand? I want so much to like the Vitaquick.