chippy

nothing fishy at all, you seem to have a real problem with fissler and ATK but i just cant see why you do or what FACTS back up any of your claims, which are often taken out of context. the ATK is independent, dont take money from brands or manufactures, they showed in brief (i am sure they arnt writing a university thesis just for you to read, they sell or share their outcomes from books/magazines or maybe internet membership afaik, and have zero reason they say to promote one brand over another, perhaps you see them as treading on your turf, i dont know, i really cant understand your continual distain for ATK and Fissler, i dont know ATK at all, i'm not even on the same continent, just this review, read some background on them and one or two Utubes, but they look credible to me, they actually have credentials, not just self made PC guru's looking to criticise other authors to boost their own credibility, but if they are lying, its crook! but their is ZERO proof of that, nor is their ANY proof their tests were faulty, only innuendo from you, things like 'from what i saw' or 'reading between the lines' etc etc, non of that proves their test was in any way faulty, perhaps you should write to them with your concerns. you can see in the Utube they plugged in equipment and showed some results on a computer screen, its there to SEE, or is it some kind of elaborate conspiracy? whats the motive? sell some books, which is what you do as well! their methods seem credible and scientific (at least to a reasonable point) your reviews are more rudimentary, hands on, but thats ok, but considering you left the Fissler on the stove and scorched it bronze (!) ,which takes quite some doing by the way! as i am sure any one here knows thats ever ruined a pot...here is your quote so i am not taking you out of context, inadvertently "Laura @ Hip Pressure Cooking I don't know about bullet-proof, but yes the stainless steel is very thick and high quality. I did not want to mention how the damage was made because it was not part of the review process. I accidentally ran the cooker without water for 5 minutes on high heat and ruined the base (it turned bronze) and likely melted the internal aluminium disk - this was fatal to all the other components. Since I do not put all other cookers on high heat without water for five minutes I did not want to penalise the manufacturer for this accident - which was entirely my fault and would not ordinarily be covered by the warranty. Ciao, L " five minutes to melt the aluminium disk and turn bronze seems a quite short time, i have destroyed a few pots and pans in my time and it took a lot longer than that!, not that its important..either way this sort of treatment can ruin your handles and who knows what else, this sort of mistakes make you no better than ATK, or any of us either for that matter....the only other person you found with the same 'handle' problem, was on amazon that had the same problem. being helpful to the community you immediately reported it, but i am not sure you followed up with Fisslers reply that said it could only happen with extreme abuse of heat etc (coincidently the same thing happened to your PC), nor that they apparently fixed it up for her if i recall and she was satisfied . you have jumped on the inconsistency with the two different manuals UK vs US with such zeal it is embarrassing to see and read, the two different setting (ring 1 and ring 2) operating pressures , it may just be a typo or may a legal thing to keep the US authorities happy that it complies to their standards, but as far as i can tell there is no difference between the two, the parts listing seem to be mirror identical, not one for only US and a different part for the UK (even if there was it would be easy to change for tiny amount of money). you also accidentally or intentionally (?) missed out the next sentence/paragraph in the US manual where it says the valve does not vent/depressurizes until it reaches the MAX of 14.50psi (100kpa)...who knows why the US manual says 30 and 60kpa for 1&2 settings (could be to around US regulations in some way) but it really has no bearing in actual use, the lines are about 1mm thick it might be measured at the top of the line in the US and the bottom of the line in the UK but there is also nearly a mm under the 2nd ring as well, either way it doesnt start to vent untill 100kpa is reached acording to the US manual, something you forgot to report! its all very well and good to be someone that will report a negative review without fear and promote yourself as being the flag carrier that will not stop asking question of the manufactures (as though they are some corporate evil conspiracy telling us lies-and i like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, the movie with Mel Gibson always makes me laugh-heck i'm a guy i find it entertaining lol, single dad that has raised three kids all with high university decrees (2 PhD's amongst them and have good jobs now, entirely on my own, did ok i reckon-so i am proud-shoot me) on everyones behalf, but so far imo you are doing way more harm than good, you already have two people seriously considering sending back their product, WHY WHY WHY, its based entirely on your unsupported rantings, innuendo and supported, non confirmed facts....i was one of these people several months ago or longer that nearly didnt purchase this product because of what you wrote about them, i looked past your comments and have to say this product, this PC works just fine and dandy...you dont even own this PC so please stop making accusations about something you have no experience with... i could on quoting you and showing where you are proven wrong in relation to this PC but i think you get the idea. please in future hold back on you innuendo, comments until you have actual facts to report, it doesnt help single parents, or whole families who scrimp and save to buy something they want/hope to be quality, to have you, without any proof what so ever make them feel bad about a purchase...they haven't even had time to properly use it, or become proficient at using it, great time to swoop in and tell them they made a poor purchase when in reality the product works perfectly, absolutely perfectly, and you would know if you owned one! i forget (without reading back) who asked or was concerned about the water/steam leaking from near the handle, but it is ABSOLUTELY normal until it comes up to pressure (please, READ the manual, its all there, its not a problem, from experience it, perhaps happens once or twice while cooking on occasion, if you dont keep it steady at a pressure, not a big deal, stop worrying! its just the machine doing its job, well, its not an old style pressure cooker, it has several safety and systems in place to make it work well!! (all our flames/heat sources are little different, another reason why down to the seconds or minutes are a stupid way to 'accurately' measure for reference of one PC to another and whether your PC works properly or not, for example at the moment i usually place my PC's on a med or high sized natural gas ring so long as the flames dont lick up the sides of the pot (you burn handles that way!!!!) (different countries have different names for the fuel, and all rings can output somewhat different heat outputs, but its all close enough for our proposes, unless your on portable LPG cylinders, which is slightly different, still works fine though) . so as i say i usually place on high flame to get up to pressure quick them move to my small sauce burner (is a low output burner) and it is usually just right for keeping pressure perfect, each of us, using our own stoves can/have to manage that. i'd like to reassure any new buyers that my experience with this brand is spot on, no problems what so ever, the concerns and carry on about little things like manuals makes little sense (to me) when same people appear to have such great access to the net and the other guru's really need to take on board the positive (if not perfect!) outcomes/reviews we (normal everyday users) people that actually own the machine have had! rant over..... but surely someone had to say it! cheers

i bet the dog salivates like crazy when he sees a steak on TV, i bet he's looking how to jump the fence when he smells the neighbours having a BBQ hehe, reminds me of that cartoon movie Madagascar , after being on the island for a while, when the lion is looking at his friends, the zebra etc and just sees walking juicy T bone steaks i agree the Vitaquick pans work perfectly, i like that 4.2 size as well although i dont have the glass lid. my 8L (8.4quart i think) gets a lot of use too though cheers chippy

i'd hazard a guess (?) it has something to do with the extreme limit or when the last valve or seal lets go, the normal operating valve ,blue with white rings is apparently as stated by the Test Kitchen thingy, or the 'correct' manual, which ever you prefer. apparently if you go past the second line it gets a little higher than standard and then there is the other valve on the lid if the first has a problem, then finally if memory serves the seal/gasket around the lid will pop out if both other valves fail. of course thats all just a guess on my part

mashed potatoes are a funny thing, so simple, straight forward yet so many slight variances that can change the outcome from small amounts to completely different, sometimes slight changes dont work at all and only minutes after they are served turn into big white mountains that lift off the plate with the fork in one lump we all have our own way that we have done for years and tend to get used to that, or perhaps grew up with mashed potatoes tasting a certain way with a certain texture. in a pressure cooker or indeed if microwaved they tend to come out drier than if done the old traditional way of simmering in water for 20-30 minutes, naturally they are steamed this way and typically don't get water logged, boiled mash for some might be described as bland(er) than PC mashed spuds. many years ago i gave the microwave a good try for a year or three and was never overly keen on them that way. PC and MW both need larger quantity of milk (and/or add back some of the starchy water they were cooked in) than when cooked on the stove in a saucepan/pot . i find heating the milk makes a good bit of difference (doesnt need to be heated when boiled in pot method so much because they seem to hold more heat that way and longer but still makes a difference), evaporation while sitting and through mashing time makes PC and MW mash drier too which is another reason why they need more milk. i tend to cut potatoes to even sizes so they cook uniform and quicker, unless i am making a cheats shortcut baked potato then steam whole and flash cook in a pan (just roll it around a bit making some brown spots with oil for colour and taste then into the oven to crust up. i also never used a machine to mash with unless i am making duchess potatoes (pretty piped shapes of mash finished in oven for slight crust, for dinner parties in the 70-80's), a hand masher is nicest by far for me but i hear many Europeans or perhaps its just the french like to put theirs through a sieve (restaurants and TV cooking shows always seem to do it this way), it certainly makes the creamiest mash but i like just a bit more texture (once in a blue moon adding some sour cream and chives (with butter too of course) and sprinkled with paprika at the end for something different ,perhaps just that 70-80's dinner party thing again, goes well with steak diane mashed potatoes are so subjective, we all like our own but with a fiddle and being open to try a few different ways you can tweak a very nice outcome in the PC or whatever, salting the water before seems to be much better than trying to get seasoning correct at the end ,larger amounts of butter make a big difference but not very heathy to eat on a regular basis, just a special occasions thing, obviously the type of potato makes a huge difference as well and i reckon the PC does a fine job for potato salad chippy

OK, thanks, I did it. I ordered the Quatro Set Large on Amazon, for delivery tomorrow. I sort of wish I had a few more dollars left for food. congratulations, you will love them! once you get some food to cook that is :-)

only positive experiences from me Jo . i was willing to spend as much as was necessary to get the 'best' , i had some money burning a hole in my pocket at the time. so i was in knots trying to decide on which one. my final contenders/ choices came down to the Fissler Vitaquick, the Euro fissler with the timer or Kuhn Rikon. i have no doubt that other brands do fine but those were simply my choices. the internet is full of good reviews about the KR cookers, but quite a few people mention that one needs to tweek/fiddle the flame just right to get it to sit in the perfect place on the valve (white line), that didnt concern me too much, i assumed it would be easy enough (somehow i would be different) and any difficulty in that or that some say the KR is slightly noisier would be outweighed by their stylish good looks and what looks like a robust valve system, i also particularly liked their non standard extra very wide braising size pans for certain purposes, but not for most meals , i noticed that parts could be purchased for their valves readily at many places and it looks easy enough to replace the parts if the need ever arose. i was also pretty keen to get the euro & australian fissler version (officially Australia gets the euro version but in fact the USA version can be had here as well), one because they look better ,just the valves and knobs etc, the pans are the same, more particularly the indicators and the top of the range model that has timers that beep when its done or if it pressure goes too low or too high. not having (sorta) used a pressure cooker since i was a little kid (the old type that rattle and if you open the lid too early the soup ended up on the ceiling) i thought , perhaps due to a little trepidation, that might be a good idea since i dont always stand at the stove and often walk to the other room to glimpse the TV or whatever sometimes. however, my kids (young adults) talked me out of the timer version, said it might just be gimmicks or too much gadgety that even if it worked we could probably do without, so i crossed that off my list (reluctantly at the time) so it was down to the Euro/Australian fissler second or third from top model, that frankly looks nicer but i ended up buying the USA vitaquick model due to price i just couldnt resist, i got the two pan set which uses one top shared between two pans. a great economical way to buy them and now that we have been using them i dont even think about how the indicator looks or anything else, it just works, its easy enough to see so thats fine and dandy. the american test kitchen rated it the highest and even though our own much praised and admired pazzaglia (me too i have one of her books to try out soon) is less than keen on their review i thought it was as professional as could be expected with computers being used to to measure temp and pressures. Laura reviewed the Euro model with the timer and had a very bad day with it leaving it empty on the fired up stove top for 5 min or so with nothing in it to overheat ruining the base probably didnt help the overall impressions it gave her so we have been using the vitaquick for some months now, guessing about six or so, couple of times a week at least for family but some days , a couple or so each week it gets used two or three times a day, since two of my lads work a second job and play night time sports they filter into the home at different times through the night. i don't like them using a deep fryer at night (the smell through the house at 10-12pm of a deep fryer is disgusting to me, takes ages to heat up and then cook) and i'm not keen if they decide to do a fry up using a frypan on top of the stove late at night either, sitting back watching a movie or reading but sounds and smells like a fast food kitchen, yuk. microwave i dont care, its just a reheat device around here mostly and they would often put water in the pasta pan and cook up some pasta which takes ages to do and uses much energy which costs a lot down our way. so the pressure cooker has opened up a much better menu to them which i like because obviously their my kids and i want them to eat well and healthily, i dont mind them doing a quick browning of a protein and then the lid goes on or it does rice or pasta much quicker than the traditional way (many many different sauce recipes for pasta, in an instant, which they love) we also have a sous vide immersion device much like your mentioned Anova , i think as time goes on their will be so many brands we couldn't poke at stick at and the prices are getting cheaper all the time as a result, mine is a SWID Addelice, a euro machine that was a good (half) price at the time compared to the considered top brand we all know. i had a quick look on utube of the Anova, it looks fine but i didnt see any details about how much power it had, it seemed to take a very long time to heat the water to temp (21min according to the utube) whereas mine is mere a fraction of that , mine is also about 2400w on 240v from memory so that might be where the differences lye. assuming the Anova has less power it probably doesn't matter much though, for one, sous vide isnt about being fast and also you could use hot water from the tap or boil some water in a kettle to be close to temp to start with, the machine can then just do its job and regulate which doesn't require a high power output. what i like about the Anova is the shield/cover is all around the heater element which shields the bags from touching the element, although it does look to not have enough ventilation holes in it, it probably doesn't effect it in reality though, on my machine it is close to letting a bag slide in behind and touch the heater element , it hasn't yet but i am always watching it, being handy i will probably make something to finish it off. the other thing that sticks out to me is how high the machine is , more particularly the height needed for emersion, it appears very long. it would be worth checking the minimum ness depth of water needed to use the machine in case you dont have a have vessel deep enough or need to purchase that as well, as a comparison the SWID fits in very shallow water, without checking probably 4"-5". i use it in my sink at the moment, i have duel kitchen sink with one being very shallow , using it in the sink frees up the stove top for other cooking which has been beneficial as for which you should buy first, well it is purely your own call and what excites you the most at the time...my view is sous vide and pressure cooking are different methods not competing methods, sous vide takes some time, not hands on time but time none the less, i dont go for the common stories that it is so tender its like nothing you can cook without it, i did various extensive comparisons a few months ago with beef all identical from same cut and beast, cooked at different lengths sous vide (from 1-12 hours) and some on pan and some over charcoal and some in extremely low (slow cook) oven then fired over charcaol to finish and we found that the longer you sous vide the drier it got, it may have been more tender but not nearly as nice because it was drier/ less juicy. a lot of this sous vide hype around the net is largely , i think the word is hyperbole . not that i am against it, i still think it has a great place and great results, but it has its restrictions, i find sous vide is kinda fool proof, so a young or inexperienced cook can get it just right, so long as they dont stuff up the browning stage, however cut and quality of meat no matter what anyone says still makes a huge difference, it can rank above cooking in pan because unless you have extreme heat not readily available to ammeter cooks the protein gets cooked/crusted too deep which affects tenderness and juices. i reckon, that the best thing any cook can have experienced or not is a decent thermometer not one of those turkey analogue things, but a high quality digital thermometer. even cooking sous vide you need it because the meat comes out unappealing and needs flaming/grilling/brazing/browning not just for looks but flavour so it helps to know what temp your serving my pick is first a digi thermometer, then a pressure cooker because for me it serves more work (for me), sous vide is better for weekend or perhaps dinner parities with too many people you have trouble cooking for. even in the pressure cooker though is not perfect, i have made and developed some wonderful casseroles over the years, some indian dishes we all love around here better than any restaurant but we cant duplicate it 'perfectly' in the pressure cooker but considering in the pressure cooker takes a mere fraction of the time its not bad at all and we have near on perfect meals midweek or when busy, and sometimes cooking the traditional way in pot or in oven can be overdone and make meat tuff (go past tender) even if sauce is still beautiful . pressure cooker makes meat 90-97% as good as best possible outcome conventionally but better than many times because it is quite easy to overcook conventionally (if the belief is longer cook makes more tender meat you reach a point where it goes tuff again) but unfortunately pressure cooker doesn't develop the sauce/gravy quite as well as a very long slow cook, it can be concentrated after to enhance but long slow cook is best but often not always practical . i think pressure cooker is best choice to a soud vide but it depends on your household habits. obviously my vitaquick has been put through its paces, over a number of months and still looks and works like new so i cant complain about it at all, quite happy here. best of luck cheers chippy

Chippy, I did not say they used the wrong TOOLS to measure the temperature. I said they measured the internal temperatures while operating the pressure cooker INCORRECTLY. It's worth noting that the video, article or blog posts do not give details on how they used the remote temperature logger. Was it on a steamer basket? Was it stainless steel or silicone? Did they put it in the cooking liquid? How much liquid? Was the water salty? Did they put the logger in potato? How big was the potato? Where was the potato placed? All of these variables can play a role in reading temperatures inside a pressure cooker. Don't assume just because you see charts and graphs in a video clip that measuring tools were used correctly OR repeatedly (I always test three times and average the results - more if the numbers look hinky) OR in the same conditions OR while using the tool or item being tested as the instruction manual states. Ciao, L Hi there L, no, of course i didnt mean to imply you are questioning the "TOOLS" they used however you are clear (now) that you are question aspects of their methodology (of course its my fault, i asked the question, if you could narrow down what concerned you about it, particularly if you knew of any substantiated faulty method they used, which you havnt). but since they havnt provided that methodology i dont see how we (er, thats to say you hehe) can refute their methodology with any real integrity, unless you do your own tests and provide that info to back up your claims...(but that would require you buying one each of those PC pots) not that i'm having a go at you for pointing out the possible variables (i considered that myself! it is important!) but i suspect (obviously) they are some sort of cooking magazine type business and providing overly technical information as one does when submitting a university paper outlining all the various aspects/discussions and methods that go with writing uni papers is beyond what is expected of them when writing an article and not at all interesting to the majority of their readers, you, me and a number of other technical fanatics being the exception. do we dismiss out of hand their results because in a short utube vid or article they didnt go into details of their methods, or because you saw a pic of a pot on stove with a hint of oddness about it here or there, done by a photographer ,not a tech, not a cook, i dont think so, do we trust that they had done a reasonable, common sense job and tested each PC with equal merit, i think so unless they are being paid for product placement (?) personally i don't see how they could have stuffed up getting the highest temp obtained from each PC so i am happy to give them the benefit of the doubt (thermosistors , couplers etc etc all have clear directions whether to place -or not- on steel, inside food or atmosphere etc and if they did the same3 with each one then it would be so much the better), to assume otherwise is to assume they are idiots...some other things they mentioned like scorching the food due to diameter of pots or rather overhang of sides relative to bottom is subjective imo because different diameters suit different uses and to match with your burners size is worth doing, however their point still stands as worthwhile to mention cheers chippy

Oh and just incase anyone missed my recently asked question (it kinda quite swept to one side with a unimportant side issue), i include it below for your convienience and further to the talk on PC cookbooks, can anyone recommend one or three...perhaps list three or four of the considered best will make it so no body feels like they are shrugging off any one particular favourite they might have. cheers chippy

L, could you please elaborate on how they incorrectly (appallingly?) measured the max temperature ? i for one would like to know, i'm sure others would like to know as well. all i can do is assume (if not trust ) they did it correctly, they had their computer readouts and graphs etc i assume they didnt just draw em up cheers chippy (short utube thing on that PC test by ATK)

G'day Pazzaglia, thats pretty much the way i see it written around a number of places, and i am not saying or rather not betting my life thats it wrong, thats not my field of expertise after all, its not even something that i have ever had anything to do with, ever, the only pressure i come across is from the tax man, gorgeous women and party balloons ...however atm even if the math appears to work out the logic doesnt just now. if you happen to making an article that explains it then by all means .."show me the money" i'd very much like to read it and you can ease my pain worried about PCing in a airplane, nah! be adventurous haha. i was going to mention about PCing in a submarine too or that its a shame they stopped those space shuttle flights, pressure cooking in space!! experiments are fun cheers chippy

Thanks Simon, i knew there had to be some sort of scientific reason for it, not that i have my head around your explanation just yet, not sure what the term 'absolute pressure' means?...also i wasnt being exactly literal about the actual pressures in airplanes, just drawing a mental picture to illustrate what i was getting at... .. the point i was trying to get across was if the airplane did presurise to sea level psi then water would boil inside at 100C no matter what altitude it was flying at wouldnt it? so by rudimentary (maybe flawed?) parallel food inside the PC (food being like the water in the pot in the airplane, the airplane being the PC) in the mountains would cook at the same temp as at sea level too one of the ideas that gets me stuck atm, which rubs against the idea its relative to outside pressure, is the pressure valve as near as i can see is purely a mechanical thing, a spring in the case of Kuhn Rikon, or rather the strength of the spring. as pressure builds up on the inside it pushes against the bottom metal pin/valve until it has enough pressure to push the pin up against the strength of the spring (nothing to do with outside atmosphere)..the atmosphere on the outside of the pressure cooker doesnt alter the physical strength of the spring, afiak it doesnt weaken the strength of the spring or is steel weaker depending on what city or elevation it is located in, maybe it does ? that would be interesting!. i can imagine it the other way around, for instance if you took the PC down to a great depth below sea level (think Jules Verne journey to center of the earth) it would heat further and rise to a higher pressure , but not because the physical properties of the spring changed but because once the pressure or steam inside the PC gained enough strength to compress the spring it would then need to be strong enough to overcome the outside atmosphere pressure...as another 'ilustration' if you took the PC below sea level down to the depths of the ocean and you have to pretend the water isnt cooling down the pot at all ,sorry lol, the valve would activate at the pressure it was designed to (from the inside) but no venting would happen until it overcame the secondary pressure of the water anyways if i come across some literature that explains it i will sit down and read it or some simple lay explanation comes along i'm all for it :-) cheers chippy

Hello folks! (just the text in bold is what i need to know, all the rest is ramblings if you want to skip it) this looks like the place to ask pressure cooker questions apart from the obvious that i outline in a moment, does anyone happen to know the difference between Kuhn Rikon, Inox and Top range, Inox (afaik, AKA Duromatic) being the more common model with the little stainless steel Oriental shape hat that sits upon the lid as a cover to the valve and the Top model (AKA Duromatic Top) has the big black plastic knob that can turn and lock into position to slow release steam when your finished cooking some specs i have seen, such as this supplier say simply both 7L (7qt) models are both 22cm (8-3/4") , one would assume (especially since i have seen parts list drawings where the lids appear to be one and the same) the lids are practically interchangeable except the handles look different, but pages such as this one, comparing the two models 3344 & 3918 show that they are quite different pots ? size is different, as is weight (significantly) between the two pots according to that page, which is somewhat confusing as they didn't mention in their review that the newer Top model was made of thicker or heavier steel ! considering that they say the pots are 16.1 x 9.8 x 9.2 vs (Top) 14 x 9 x 8 , yet the Duromatic Top, even though smaller in every dimension weighs 2lbs more ! i would have thought that was something to take notice of , or i am i confused in some way ? i notice also that they say the second line is the 15psi setting but after much research that seems to be arbitrary number bandied about in North America mostly, not the actual real pressure obtained (even in Nth America), like most of the PC i have seen so far the first line is meant to be about 0.4 bar and the second setting/line they use is 0.8bar , not that thats the absolute max they reach, as the Kuhn Rikon valve has its pressure limitation function (if selected setting is exceeded) set to release at a max of 1.2bar ,which doesn't mean it wont release before it gets to 1.2bar and most likely never quite gets to that would be my guess, considering how companies like to be safe and keep themselves legally protected..that space between 0.8 and say 1.2bar might be just small enough to explain why some have said its a little bit finicky to get the flame just right, although if one looks at that Cooks Illustrated test page it shows that the KR only got to a peak of 240F (115.5C) which appears to be about 0.73 bar (10.6 psi) , go figure, i guess that definitely makes it difficult to balance it ! the Fissler was said to peak at 253F (about 122C) or approx 1.15bar which seems more respectable but their instructions say its pressure limitation function (if selected pressure is exceeded) can peak at a max of 1.5 bar (which would be about 262F, 128C and approx 16psi) but no doubt its that industrial safety margin (or perhaps they all just rip us off lol) and of course their recommended operating at the high level is the common 0.8 bar (approx 243F or 117C and approx 11.6psi) i've been meaning to get a PC for years but just never got around to it (they were always expensive in our local shops for what is largely a time saving device albeit with pitfalls of not being able to see and taste the food as it is cooking as you can with a regular pot), used to use one when i was a kid, my parents old jiggler type, i never did like what came out of it though, as often as not we got corned beef with a tasteless white sauce that i couldnt bare as a kid, i hated it so much i have never eaten it since, i was never a big meat eater then, any veggies cooked in it were a soggy affair, the kitchen sink sponge had nicer texture and flavour, probable more vitamins too hmm fond memories of that tasty kitchen sponge ...thats how bad some of my memories are lol, but to be fair if the veggies were cooked by the other method in our childhood home, boiling in a pot, they were just as soggy, it must have been the way some people liked them in those days i guess, like they come out of a can, well not me. so i have narrowed it down to perhaps two or three brands (not that the others are poorly in some way but one has to draw the line somewhere) , kuhn rikon Inox look the nicest to me (the Top a little more practical), its valve mechanism is pretty straight forward and simple which to my mind bodes well for long term durability, the fissler obviously appears to get the highest pressure, they keep the parts for a least ten years so i guess one can stock up on a few parts so the pot can be used after that, they seem easy enough to replace valve parts as well...and then because looking at these and trying to get to the nitty gritty has been so frustrating at times i've thrown my arms up a thought may as well get a basic Presto PC even though it will rattle and hiss its simple, cheap and no doubt works , most Presto's ive seen are aluminium though which i dont want, SS much better for obvious reasons i think mainly i want it for various legume dishes we enjoy and i will give some casseroles a go in a pressure cooker too, we (as a family) seem more pressed for time nowadays although we still do cook-ups on weekends when we have the opportunity, cook-ups on weekends sometimes consist of making large 20-25 Liters or so of Bolognese sauce, once in a blue moon we have two 25L pots going so i dont see a pressure cooker taking over that role due to the amount (we use it as a foundation base for many other cultural dishes too by adding various ingredients to it at a latter stage when taken from freezer), casseroles of all sorts , many indian dishes are a favourite for us but also old favourites like osso bucco or minestrone in winter, actually we like many different cultural dishes. a pressure cooker might give us the opportunity to cook one up mid week if we dont have one frozen from a weekend cook-up. week end cooking is fun though, everyone helps chop and prepare ingredients and get them going in large pots on the stove, when all the hard work is done everybody gives it a stir when they walk past, the smells are gorgeous through the kitchen or house and after a few hours no one can resist pinching a spoonful from the slow, volcanic like bubbling surface every so often, on the pretence of giving it a required taste test of course! it tastes just soo yumm! well thats part of my trails and tribulations in search for a PC ...so back to my question does anyone have first hand knowledge and know the difference between the Kuhn Rikon; Inox and Top models (3344 vs 3918 for example) oh! one more thing that got me side tracked was about how ppl believe at high altitude the pressure cooker doesn't reach the same pressure it does at sea level. how can that be? i havnt given it much thought admittedly, well not much intellectual thought, just the same annoying distracting thought you give to a rubix cube (swish, straight in the bin with that stupid thing ) but surely it gets to the same temp as it does at sea level, its basically a sealed unit, its the internal pressure that affects the valve not the external, so whilst it might take longer to reach max temp (maybe) surely the temp/pressure on the inside is the same. i dont think if you were a potato sitting on the inside of the pot at sea level , which for the sake of this argument is sitting upon a stove inside the worlds tallest elevator, getting a steam bath at say, 240F (10.6psi) and then someone presses the button to go to the penthouse several thousands of feet above sea level, as the potato it doesnt get any cooler for you as you go up, your still sitting in 240F/10.6psi steam and well on your way to being mashed in a few minutes with gravy, onions and sausages to keep you company...or another example is water boils at 100C in the airplane sitting on the runway at sea level, close the doors pressurise the cabin to sea level (1bar or 14.69psi) and fly up to 40 000 feet or whatever they fly around at, water still boils at 100C doesn't it if you used a pressure cooker on a stove in an airplane at 40 000 feet the PC would get just as hot as it does on the runway eh! (for boiling water at 100C in a normal open pot it needs to be in a modern airplane thats pressurised to same as sea level of course, it wouldnt work for Amelia Earheart or Sir Ross Smith in their old clunkers, they would run out fuel and crash waiting for that to happen) cheers chippy water_pressure_boiling_temperature.pdf