Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 8)

[Joe Blowe]

I guess nobody thought the original packaging was unsafe at 132F so thats good i guess.

Did you do any research on your own? I've read repeatedly that you should never use the original packaging -- you have no guarantee that the plastic used is safe for high temps (meaning 55C or above), and there is always the possibility of small tears, punctures, or faulty seams that won't make themselves apparent until they've been in the bath for awhile...

ETA: If you're buying from a local vendor that uses a chamber vacuum on the premises, then you're good to go. But it sounds like you're buying a prepacked brisket from who knows where. Just repack.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Joe Blowe (log)

[FeChef]

I guess nobody thought the original packaging was unsafe at 132F so thats good i guess.

Did you do any research on your own? I've read repeatedly that you should never use the original packaging -- you have no guarantee that the plastic used is safe for high temps (meaning 55F or above), and there is always the possibility of small tears, punctures, or faulty seams that won't make themselves apparent until they've been in the bath for awhile...

ETA: If you're buying from a local vendor that uses a chamber vacuum on the premises, then you're good to go. But it sounds like you're buying a prepacked brisket from who knows where. Just repack.

Too late. Its already been in the SV for 12 hours. Water is crystal clear so no leaks but i dont know where it was packaged. Seems pretty thick plastic. 55F seems pretty unrealistic for a unsafe temperature. Average room temps are 70-80F. I figure most plastics have a melting temp way above 132F. I think any plastic that is food safe would not release toxins at that low of temps.

[Joe Blowe]

Edited post to state 55C.

[Syzygies]

See blackp's blind test: SV then smoke was best.

Thanks, that's very interesting. I do also have a PID-controlled ceramic cooker (http://www.komodokamado.com) so I'll have to try this.

[Todd in Chicago]

I guess nobody thought the original packaging was unsafe at 132F so thats good i guess.

Did you do any research on your own? I've read repeatedly that you should never use the original packaging -- you have no guarantee that the plastic used is safe for high temps (meaning 55F or above), and there is always the possibility of small tears, punctures, or faulty seams that won't make themselves apparent until they've been in the bath for awhile...

ETA: If you're buying from a local vendor that uses a chamber vacuum on the premises, then you're good to go. But it sounds like you're buying a prepacked brisket from who knows where. Just repack.

Too late. Its already been in the SV for 12 hours. Water is crystal clear so no leaks but i dont know where it was packaged. Seems pretty thick plastic. 55F seems pretty unrealistic for a unsafe temperature. Average room temps are 70-80F. I figure most plastics have a melting temp way above 132F. I think any plastic that is food safe would not release toxins at that low of temps.

For myself....

Bags come out to be about 10 us cents a bag, for my own piece of mind I would just reseal it.

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago

Edited January 20, 2013 by Todd in Chicago (log)

[Ranz]

Thanks for the tip, I watched the Pepin video last night. I really enjoyed it and I see a chicken deboning project in my future.... :-) Overall, I thought his show was pretty cool and ended up watching another one, in which he made fish quenelles, a cool shrimp dish with shrimp mousse, and a monkfish (roulade?). He has a very slow, fun style and gosh darn....makes it look so effortless. I enjoyed them. Thanks! Todd in Chicago

He's amazing. There's tons on Youtube, and I've spent many hours watching him. The man is pure class

I watched Pepin and had to take some notes to get the progression. I've done it about 6 or so times and it gets easier. Still not as fast but can do one in around 15 min. Still have to think about it a bit.

I've taken to whacking the leg bone tip before getting started so after I scrape down the leg bone I can just pop it out. Before finishing I like to hack off that leg bone tip so there are no bones when finished. I can also pull out some leg tendons

Yeah, I'm down to about 15 mins, but my problem is that I'm still saving up for a good knife. A really sharp knife will help a lot. I think I'll use your tip of breaking the bone before I start scraping, makes sense.

[PedroG]

Thanks for the tip, I watched the Pepin video last night. I really enjoyed it and I see a chicken deboning project in my future.... :-) Overall, I thought his show was pretty cool and ended up watching another one, in which he made fish quenelles, a cool shrimp dish with shrimp mousse, and a monkfish (roulade?). He has a very slow, fun style and gosh darn....makes it look so effortless. I enjoyed them. Thanks! Todd in Chicago

He's amazing. There's tons on Youtube, and I've spent many hours watching him. The man is pure class

I watched Pepin and had to take some notes to get the progression. I've done it about 6 or so times and it gets easier. Still not as fast but can do one in around 15 min. Still have to think about it a bit.

I've taken to whacking the leg bone tip before getting started so after I scrape down the leg bone I can just pop it out. Before finishing I like to hack off that leg bone tip so there are no bones when finished. I can also pull out some leg tendons

Yeah, I'm down to about 15 mins, but my problem is that I'm still saving up for a good knife. A really sharp knife will help a lot. I think I'll use your tip of breaking the bone before I start scraping, makes sense.

A "really sharp knife" is one with a 15° V-edge you created yourself on a Japanese waterstone with subsequent stropping, and you'd rather not use that on bones!

[FeChef]

For myself....

Bags come out to be about 10 us cents a bag, for my own piece of mind I would just reseal it.

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago

Price wasnt the issue, time was. It was late and i had little time to get things going. As i expected, 132F was no problem. Brisket turned out better then expected. I sliced a few pounds and vacuum packed and froze them for superbowl. Everything else was devoured. Theres just enough left to re-therm tommorow for brisket sandwiches with red slaw and bbq sauce on buttered texas toast.

[Ranz]

A "really sharp knife" is one with a 15° V-edge you created yourself on a Japanese waterstone with subsequent stropping, and you'd rather not use that on bones!

You don't cut through bone at all iirc, just a bit of cartilage and flesh.

[KennethT]

A "really sharp knife" is one with a 15° V-edge you created yourself on a Japanese waterstone with subsequent stropping, and you'd rather not use that on bones!

You don't cut through bone at all iirc, just a bit of cartilage and flesh.

That's right. If you do it the Pepin way, you don't even cut through cartilage, you just cut through sinew and flesh

[Charcuterer]

I think he has you break the lower part of the drum stick in order to take the meat away easier. I just use the spine of the knife for that not the blade!

[HowardLi]

A "really sharp knife" is one with a 15° V-edge you created yourself on a Japanese waterstone with subsequent stropping, and you'd rather not use that on bones!

You don't cut through bone at all iirc, just a bit of cartilage and flesh.

That's right. If you do it the Pepin way, you don't even cut through cartilage, you just cut through sinew and flesh

You still need to go through cartilage between joints, the way he does it.

[scubadoo97]

I think he has you break the lower part of the drum stick in order to take the meat away easier. I just use the spine of the knife for that not the blade!

You need something with some weight. I use the spine of a cleaver to break the leg bone and use a pairing knife to cut through and around the joints and and scrape down the bones

[pep.]

For you charcuterie guys out there: Will fresh sausages stand up to the stress of vacuum packing? And if you are at it, what's the best temperature for cooking sausages? Is 70 °C too high? I've got a bunch of different sausages from my local butcher - some are pre-cooked, but two batches are freshly made raw Bratwürste (which should be good just cooked and not pan-fried).

[rotuts]

I cook my sausages at 140 x 4, single layer. if the sausages are really soft, chill them to just above freezing then bag.

[jmolinari]

Sausage at 140 is great. The sear in pan.

[Charcuterer]

Pep. I have sealed sausages with a front seal machine with no problems but with a chamber vac there are some issues. If there is air trapped in your sausages they can explode. If you have trimmed the casing a little too close and seal them right after stuffing they tend to ooze out the ends. So what I do is; put the sausages on a parchment paper lined 1/2 sheet pan and put it in the freezer. Do not try to bag them, freeze them and then seal - the condensation from the cooling sausages will freeze and you will not get a good seal. I let them get firm but not fully frozen and seal them up. If they are fully frozen there are voids around the sausages and they will tend to float if cooking sous vide.

[scubadoo97]

I just found a use for the whiskey stones I have and have never used more than once. They are SV weights now

[Martin Fisher]

I waited over 6 weeks for Douglas Baldwin's book to again be available via Amazon.com, but no luck. GGRRRrrrrr!!!!!!

I discovered that the SousVide Supreme folks have it in stock, so I ordered it from them.

~Martin

[cookalong]

I've been assigned the task of cooking venison loin for about 10 people. From what I know, venison is pretty sensitive to enzymatic activity, so people often cook it at a higher-than-target temperature. Unfortunately I don't have a good thermometer for measuring the temperature of food in the water bath.

How would you cook it sous vide under such circumstances? I'd like a final core temperature of about 53-54 C. Will the meat turn mushy/pappy if I set the temperature of the waterbath to 54C?

[paulpegg]

I have cooked venison loin for 30 people with salt & pepper in the bag and sv at 54C for 4 hours then seared for about a minute until nicely browned. It did not turn mushy at all. You can treat it the same as beef loin. I have seen recipes with time from 1 hour up to 12 hours in the bath with no apparent problems.

For a non-sous vide method try the thrird course here http://www.lesmarmitonsnj.com/recipes/1012recipes.pdf This was a real hit with our members.

Paul

[rotuts]

paulpegg

that dinner sounds delicious. next time make it for 33, and let me know when to show up!

[scubadoo97]

I have a few guests coming over next weekend and decided to try pastrami and smoked brisket for sandwiches. Didn't want to babysit my smoker for a full day or more so decided to try it SV.

I took a couple of prepared corned beef briskets and soaked out a fair amount of salt as I do before smoking them on my smoker. spread a little mustard and pastarmi spice on them, bagged up and in the water bath at 150F/45 hr. Also took a brisket flat, cut it into quarters, bagged it up with a little beef broth and liquid smoke. These all cooked together. I just pulled the meat from the water bath. The corned beef had good texture. Not melting in the mouth texture but still good and easy to slice as thin as I would want. The brisket flat appeared medium/well and was a bit dry yet tender. I chose 150F after reading as much as could find. I saw a few people compalining of brisket at 147F/48 not being tender enough so pushed it up a few degrees.

All the meat is now on my smoker at ~140* so I can get some smoke flavor going. I have the juices in pots being reduced. I'm hoping I can get enough smoke into both the brisket and corned beef and finish with a little charr on the grill for texture.

Since I won't be needing them until this weekend would it be better to slice and freeze in some juice or freeze whole, warm back up in the water bath and slice later? Since the brisket is a bit dry I'm leaning toward slicing and storing in it's juice.

I know I should have waited and done this mid week but just didn't have the time.

I would appreciate your suggestions.

Thanks

[Syzygies]

There is a way to bring sous vide PID control to your smoker:

http://www.thebbqguru.com

[scubadoo97]

Meat's been sliced and liquid added. Next time lower temps and or shorted time