Restaurant/Bar Annoyances

[Pontormo]

Does anyone out there know why rucola is called "arugula" in North America?

This has bugged me for a long time. Why replace the Anglo "rocket" with what seems to be a made-up Italian word when the real one will do?

Don't bother consulting Elizabeth Schneider. Recently I purchased her amazing Vegetables from Amaranth to Zucchini (2001), and while she actually addresses the issue, her lines of inquiry led nowhere.

And as long as I'm on the subject of Italian vocabulary, I come across "pannini sandwiches" on the menu boards of local coffee houses all the time.

[Milagai]

Curry!    What is Curry spice?  This gets to me a lot.    There are spice mixtures in India and Pakistan, but its usually called Garam masla and depending on where you are from there are some differences in the the spice mix.    Black pepper, cinnamon, cardanmon, clove and bayleaf are some of the common ingredients.

←

and while you're at it, what is "curry" anyway?

kadhi? kari?

though the work seems to have firmly entrenched itself

into the indian food vocabulary....

milagai

[popover]

ITA. Some people say Curry as a dish and I say what is it?

Is it Egg Chicken, fish, meat? They all have separate names. Aloo Ghost etc.

[Pontormo]

Curry!    What is Curry spice?  This gets to me a lot.    There are spice mixtures in India and Pakistan, but its usually called Garam masla and depending on where you are from there are some differences in the the spice mix.     Black pepper, cinnamon, cardanmon, clove and bayleaf are some of the common ingredients.

←

and while you're at it, what is "curry" anyway?

kadhi? kari?

though the work seems to have firmly entrenched itself

into the indian food vocabulary....

milagai

←

I'm no expert, but I wonder if British colonialism is to blame....you know, an exotic spice to transform lamb stew into lamb curry.

Curry powders that I have owned tend to go heavy on tumeric. Robuchon's been criticized for his reliance on the stuff.

Edited October 12, 2005 by Pontormo (log)

[popover]

Tumeric is not often part of the Garam Masla mixture. Although it can be in many recipes its a separate spice. Perhaps you are right to harminize with English or American culture they mixed together what they thought it was.

[Milagai]

Tumeric is not often part of the Garam Masla mixture.    Although it can be in many recipes its a separate spice.      Perhaps you are right to harminize with English or American culture they mixed together what they thought it was.

←

turmeric should not be in garam masala, which is one

specific spice mix with specific uses (not throw into all dishes).

Garam masala contains "heating" (not taste or temperature,

but intrinsic quality) spices, thence the name.....

Curry powder NE garam masala.......

And I have never understood, so have never tried,

the "different" varieties of curry powder (e.g. Madras curry powder).

Madras is (or was) the name of a place, which has dozens of

dishes in that region, so one powder has to do it all?

I do keep specific mixes for specific dishes on hand

as I am often too busy to mix them individually

(garam masala; chana masala mix; dhansak mix; sambar powder;

etc.) but each mix makes one specific dish......

and yes, i do have curry leaves in my freezer,

and no relation to curry powder, and yes, i make

kari with them

also poriyal, sambar, rasam, sundal,

chutney, almost anything south indian....

milagai

[slkinsey]

Does anyone out there know why rucola is called "arugula" in North America?

Probably for the same reason Puglia is known as "Apulia."

The UK's "rocket" most likely comes from the French roquette.

[lcdm]

Can we add bars and cocktails as well?  Vodka martini comes to mind along with all BLANK-TINI drinks.

I might be wrong here but isn't a martini traditionally gin? So saying you want a vodka martini is correct - but asking for a martini should result in a gin "martini"?

Well, here's the thing: A "Martini" is a drink made with gin and dry vermouth, maybe (hopefully?) with a drop of orange bitters. If you change the basic ingredient, it is no longer something that should be called a "Martini."

Think about it this way: A Margarita is made with tequila, Cointreau and lime juice. If I mixed up a drink made of bourbon, Cointreau and lime juice, it wouldn't be a "Bourbon Margarita." To us, a drink made with vodka and dry vermouth is so different from one made with gin and dry vermouth that it doesn't make sense to call them by the same name, even if we modify "Martini" by saying "Vodka Martini." But I think it's more than that. When you start calling everything a "Something-tini" or a "Whatever Martini" it starts to take away some of the meaning and value from the word "Martini." It's also not very interesting, and we're missing out on some really interesting and more informative cocktail names. Isn't it much better to have a "Vesper" than a "Vodka and Gin Martini?"

I also think there are more interesting ways to indicate in a cocktail's name that it is inspired by another cocktail without just tacking something onto the name. As it so happens, this is something Alchemist and I have been discussing in this thread about swizzles. There is a famous swizzle called the Queens Park Swizzle that Alchemist has been riffing on. The QPS has a rum base. Alchemist came up with an interesting variation using gin instead of rum. Now, he could have called it a "Gin Queens Park Swizzle," but instead had the idea of naming it after a park in London to give a nod to the city of London Gin: the "Hyde Park Swizzle" or something like that.

←

Yes a martini is a specific drink with gin as the main ingredient. Anything else should be given a different name, I think the reason people picked up on the whole -tini craze is that they like drinking from a martini glass. So anything served in that glass automatically becomes a -tini.

Another pet peeve is when a recipe/person says "use the freshest ingredients you can find". Really, good thing they told me because I was going to use stale/spoiled/wilted ingredients.

[popover]

To clarify from my earlier post. In India and Pakistan there isn't anything called curry as a spice or mixture. It is called Garam Masla. Which is Cinnamon, Cardamon, black pepper, clove, sometimes bay leaf and a couple others depending on what part or India or Pakistan you are from.

It sounds funny anytime you hear the term Curry because it doesn't really exist there.

Tumeric is a separate spice and not used in Garam Masla. All dishes are separate and not all recipes use Tumeric or Garam Masla.

Best wishes, Melinda

[My Confusing Horoscope]

I've seen detailed recipes that end with "cook until done."

Since I naturally prefer to overdo or underdo things, that's good advice! Now, at what temperature and for how long?

[M.X.Hassett]

Yes a martini is a specific drink with gin as the main ingredient. Anything else should be given a different name, I think the reason people picked up on the whole -tini craze is that they like drinking from a martini glass. So anything served in that glass automatically becomes a -tini.

←

I think you hit the nail on the head, I have heard storys of people asking for coke to be served in a martini glass(I think in the FS&Cocktail forum). Another great reason to go to Pegu no \/ glasses.

Edit: &

Edited October 12, 2005 by M.X.Hassett (log)

[Pontormo]

Does anyone out there know why rucola is called "arugula" in North America?

Probably for the same reason Puglia is known as "Apulia."

The UK's "rocket" most likely comes from the French roquette.

←

Ahhhhh, hadn't thought of that one. "Puglia" to "Apulia" is not the same as "Toscana" to "Tuscany,"* you're right.

(Regarding rocket--yours is the accepted etymology.)

But the thing is, as far as I know, "arugula" is a fairly new post-colonial word. I mean, the first time I noticed its appearance in the States was back in the mid- to late eighties, and then it was not terribly common.

In the midwest friends gave me a packet of arugula seeds as a birthday present ca. 1990 for this reason, thrilled that they discovered something that exotic. It was probably more accessible in California earlier, at least on farms patronized by Alice Waters. However, in her menu cookbook of 1982, arugula is called rocket.

Why, decades after we started calling Peking "Beijing" do we still persist in making up variations on foreign words?

*As for the use of "Tuscany" in the culinary world, I have noticed two things:

1) Tuscany salad. Why the noun for an adjective when the word "Tuscan" is readily available? It's true we have Caesar salad and Waldorf salad, but Tuscany salad sounds awkward to me.

2) Whole Foods sells a loaf called Tuscany Bread or maybe even Pana Toscana. However, it is not the real deal, quality aside, since it contains salt.

Then there's foccaccia bread, though, maybe someone has said that already.

[Pan]

ITA.  Some people say Curry as a dish and I say what is it?     

  Is it Egg Chicken, fish, meat?    They all have separate names.  Aloo Ghost etc.

←

From my standpoint as a former resident of Malaysia, I'd answer your second question "Yes." Gulai telur, gulai ayam, gulai ikan [insert name of fish], gulai daging [or, more common, gulai kambing = goat curry]. Also, gulai terung (eggplant), gulai udang (shrimp), etc.

Gulai and kari are words for "curry" in Malay, and the words do have a meaning that can be roughly defined by the ingredients and methods used in making the dishes.

[beccaboo]

Does anyone out there know why rucola is called "arugula" in North America?

This has bugged me for a long time.  Why replace the Anglo "rocket" with what seems to be a made-up Italian word when the real one will do?

←

I've read that 'arugula' is 'rucola' in some Italian dialect, but haven't heard anything more specific than that. In Lombardy it's 'arigola.'

[Pontormo]

Thanks, BB!

I just googled Italian sites for "arigola" and found this: Italian variations on "rucola"

There's no mention of "arugula," but this makes sense. You're onto something. Schneider reports the theory that a regional name for "rucola" might be the source for "arugula," but no one could identify anything definitive.

Since we're supposed to be as accessible as possible and use only English, I do hope the link is okay. For the sake of transparency, let me mention that the name of the site refers to a type of grocery store that specializes in produce. The entry on this page discusses a type of arugula and offers different variations on the name of the plant; "rucola" stems from the Latin word "eruca" (masculine, though) whose ancient etymology is uncertain.

"Arigula" you'll notice is one of the variations listed. The cultivated variety is said to be quite different from the variety treated in this entry, surprisingly more flavorful, or rather, more intense, than the wild plant. [in some parts of Italy, in fact, you can see old women dressed completely in black, bending over on the side of the road picking arugula since it grows like a weed.] Before assuming its current role in salads and soup, arugula was prized as a medicinal herb. It helped if you had problems with indigestion or impotence!

P.S. It's too late to edit, but in my second post in this thread, I wrote "Pana" instead of "Pane." Not as bad as a typo that albiston corrected elsewhere, but...

Edited October 13, 2005 by Pontormo (log)

[divalasvegas]

If no one minds, I'd like to add my pet peeves along the lines of how this topic began, mostly about restaurant experiences, at least that's what the initial posts addressed.

Mostly I find mispronounciation of ingredients by waitstaff or the restaurant misprinting certain terms to be more amusing than annoying. Dirty bathrooms, being seated at unbussed tables, having to hunt down the server, are definite no-no's for me like many here. But over the years I must say it's really the shabby treatment of waitstaff/servers and other restaurant personnel by the general public or management that makes me cringe. BTW, I'm just a consumer not a restaurateur or server. Several examples of this:

- Leaving a lousy tip because the food wasn't good. Earth to you-know-who-you-are. The servers don't prepare the food they just bring it. One of the few times a server should be held accountable is if they have left the food to linger before bringing it to the table.

- Customers who never make eye contact with the server. In other words, they speak to the menu, then, again without acknowledging the server, hand the menu back to them sideways. Personally, I find that incredibly rude. In the same league with snapping one's fingers or hollering "hey you" to the server.

- Management attempting to blame the server when the blame primarily rests with management. One particularly egregious situation occured one Spring as the weather had warmed up enough for this particular establishment to open up its outdoor dining for the first time that season. Well, I was out with a group from the office and we noticed that it was taking an incredibly long time to get anything--orders taken, water/coffee refills, etc. However, thank goodness we all noticed why. When we finally got to speak with one of the managers, he began to profusely apologize for the waitress' poor performance. We let him know in no uncertain terms that she was working her butt off, was very nice and that the restaurant seemed to be poorly understaffed. It was only then that he admitted it was the first day of alfresco dining and that they had neglected to hire additional staff to compensate. Incredibly bad form on his part. We left the waitress a big tip BTW.

- People who expect waitstaff and other customers to put up with the poor/obnoxious/sometimes hazardous behavior of their unruly clan. I had a particularly lousy dining experience at an Italian restaurant downtown. I don't know who I felt sorrier for myself and the other diners, or the waitstaff. I actually settled on feeling the most pity for the waitstaff since I could always just throw up my hands and leave; they can't. It was two families (it seemed to be two sisters and their husbands and kids).

As I recall, it was four adults and about eight kids. Now with that many children I know I won't be dining next to absolutely drop dead quiet, but the behavior of the adults and several of the children was truly revolting. Since I had already been served when they arrived and there were no more tables for a single diner available, I decided to tough it out. I'm sure you all know what's coming: loud, obnoxious parents, telling servers what they needed instead of asking, allowing their children to shout commands at the waitstaff with their darling little mouths full, tossing tableware to the floor, pushing over full glasses of water and of course, not limiting their kids choices and trying to tailor/modify each of their offspring's dish to their specific liking. On that last one, I'm afraid that I'm a bit old school especially when you have an extensive menu. I think with that many kids of different ages (the oldest was maybe 10 or 11) to make everyone's life easier, limit what they can choose from giving them a few decent variety of choices; kids often eat the same stuff over and over again anyway.

Also, parents, I'm really not interested in hearing the name of your child repeated 50 or 60 times during the evening. I can still remember the name of the worst offender: Stuart or as I recall: Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart,

Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart,

Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart, Stuart.

I AM NOT LYING. I especially liked it when the dopey dad, trying in vain to get this little brat to behave, reminded him of what he had been taught in etiquette class. Word to dopey dad: with the way the adults behave in your family and the fact that this kid publicly and loudly showed absolutely no respect for you, there aren't enough etiquette classes in the world to correct years of your very bad example. While the waitstaff behaved admirably, I really think there have to be times when management steps in to remind idiots like this that others are around them trying to enjoy their meal as well and that certain behavior will not be tolerated. Needless to say, I asked for my food to be packed up and left with a horrendus headache.

End of Restaurant Rant, Part 1.

Edited December 12, 2005 by divalasvegas (log)

[Kouign Aman]

Oyster Rockefeller – Prince Edward Oysters with Herb Crema, Gruyere, Uni foam and American Caviar

Although this sounds delightful,

[Rant] its NOT Oysters Rockefeller. Its not even in the competition to fake the original apparently secret recipe.

Call it Oysters Carnegie, Oysters Perot, OilBaron's Oyster or whatever. But ferpetesake, dont steal a name already in hard use.

This isnt like "coffee and donuts" - a play on the concept. Its an entirely different dish. [/Rant]

[Tri2Cook]

Waking up an old topic to proclaim my dislike for "bake" as a descriptor. For some reason seeing "blah, blah and blah with bleh bake" as a recipe title drives me nuts. I tend to automatically write the recipe off without even reading it. Just needed to get that off my chest.

[weinoo]

Here are a few things that annoy me when I go out to eat:

At the bar:

People who sit sideways and take up multiple spaces at the bar.

People who think their handbag/coat/poodle/whatever deserve their own seat at the bar.

In the restaurant:

Server: "What will we be having for dinner tonight?" Me: "I didn't realize you'd be dining with us."

Server: " I love everything on the menu."

Items 86ed when they've only been open for an hour. What did you make, one of those?

Reaching across my face to fill a glass/clear a plate/etc.

Partial bussing of table before everyone has finished eating.

Surely - you have something.

[thirtyoneknots]

As a bartender, those items annoy me about bar patrons at least as much as they do you. Actually had a guy the other day sitting sideways in his chair complain to me about a light shining in his eyes and asked if I could turn it off (I couldn't--it is on the same circuit with too many other vital lights). Instead of just turning to sit straight in his chair he continued to whine (rather than move to another stool or whatever) and finally left.

As for the 86 issue...I once worked in a place with a veal chop on the menu. It was such a relatively rare order (that kind of town) they typically only had one on hand. So yeah, one person orders it and it went on the 86 board. Sometime after I moved on they wised up and just took it off the menu. I often wondered what kind of awkwardness ensued when two people at the same table ordered one.

The one that annoys me the most (though it really isnt a big deal) is when servers say things like "Can I get that out of your way?" when clearing plates, along with a laundry list of server cliches (I'll be helping you you tonight). Chalk it up to a perfectionist manager during a formative time in my hospitality career, but those stock phrases are like a rasp on my eardrums now.

[NancyH]

From our recent trip to Florida, where I ask every server the same question: which fish or seafood item is the most local and amazingly fresh. Wrong answer #1: "I like . . . ." Wrong answer #2: "We sell a lot of the . . . . ". I want to know what's fresh and local - not what you like to eat and not what you sell a lot of.

[gfweb]

All good ones.

I hate "Is this you first time here?". Who frigging cares what they have to say next. It won't matter.

[mkayahara]

My current pet peeve is "How is everything tasting?" I don't really know why, but I find that phrasing to be like nails on a chalkboard.

[Holly Moore]

No matter the wording, the perfunctory interruption, "How is everything?"

Being held captive at the conclusion of the meal, waiting to receive the check or the change/credit card slip.

Guest check printed on thermal paper.

Hard butter.

[lancastermike]

Mine is this. They say to me "Would you like a drink before dinner?" I order my cocktail and get it and right away they want me to order. I do and before you know it I get an app. yes, I like my drink BEFORE dinner. I love my manhatthan but don't really like it while I am eating. Before dinner, means before dinner. If they are in that big a hurry to turn the table don't aske me about a drink before dinner, ask me if I want it WITH dinner