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Dark soya sauce?

MaryIsobel

By MaryIsobel
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MaryIsobel

MaryIsobel

Posted
Posted (edited)

Want to make this recipe for Yaki Udon with shrimp tonight. https://www.chilitochoc.com/yaki-udon-with-shrimps/

Neither grocery in town had "dark" soya sauce labelled as such. I struggle when making Japanese or Chinese food that is not too salty for our taste. I searched for this on Egullet and came up with this:  ran out of the dark soya sauce, so I used molasses instead..not much difference in the taste. When reading about dark soya I understand that it is saltier than light or regular soya sauce. The recipe has regular soy sauce and oyster sauce so I am already concerned about the saltiness but molasses just seems wrong. Any suggestions on what to sub for the dark soy sauce? (Liuzhou, I can hear you rolling your eyes!)

Edited by MaryIsobel (log)
Deephaven

Deephaven

Posted
Posted

Japanese dark soy sauce is normal, they mark the other "light".  Careful as well, not "lite" as that is usually low sodium.  Other Asian countries do it differently.

That being said in that recipe that is a substitution as well and imo you should have a bottle of mirin as the rice vinegar sub won't work.

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MaryIsobel

MaryIsobel

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7 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

Japanese dark soy sauce is normal, they mark the other "light".  Careful as well, not "lite" as that is usually low sodium.  Other Asian countries do it differently.

That being said in that recipe that is a substitution as well and imo you should have a bottle of mirin as the rice vinegar sub won't work.

I do have mirin, just not sure about the dark soya sauce.

blue_dolphin

blue_dolphin

Posted
Posted (edited)

I agree with @Deephaven that  regular Japanese soy sauce and mirin sound better than dark soy sauce and rice vinegar.  
Chinese dark soy sauce tends to be a little less salty and a bit sweeter than light soy sauce, used more for that dark color

Edited by blue_dolphin (log)
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liuzhou

liuzhou

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MaryIsobel said:

When reading about dark soya I understand that it is saltier than light or regular soya sauce.

 

🙄🙄🙄

 

It's the other way round. Dark is less salty and mainly used for colour.

 

Molasses sounds totally wrong to me, although some cheap (and nasty) brands do add molasses to their recipe. Too sweet. Can you find mushroom soy sauce? If not, Kikkoman is technically more akin to a dark soy sauce than to light.

 

I agree that rice vinegar is not a substitute for mirin, but I don't agree that the vinegar in the recipe is being used as a substitute. It is surely being used to give a hint of acid to balance the rest of the sauce, which you wouldn't get from mirin.

 

Now I'm going to put my eyes back in and have a long lie down.

Good luck with the recipe. It sounds fine.

Edited by liuzhou (log)

...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

liuzhou

liuzhou

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Japanese dark soy sauce is normal, they mark the other "light".  Careful as well, not "lite" as that is usually low sodium.  Other Asian countries do it differently.

 

In China 'light soy sauce' is the norm, too. Low sodium sauce is clearly marked as such.

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...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

FeChef

FeChef

Posted
Posted

I only buy Pearl River Bridge soy sauce. I will be honest, and i can't tell the difference between their light soy sauce and their dark soy sauce in terms of sodium. I think its mainly to add dark color and a "subtle sweetness" Its not noticable like Kecap manis aka ABC sweet soy sauce.

heidih

heidih

Posted
Posted

I think Lite & light get conflated in American minds. Barbara Tropp turned me onto Pearl River Mushroom soy which I used to stock as a different flavor.

MaryIsobel

MaryIsobel

Posted
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Posted

All good tips - thank you. The Yaki Udon turned out okay, given that I have nothing to compare it too. My nephew proclaimed it excellent, my husband said it was good but a bit sweet. There were 2 tsp of brown sugar in the recipe. I have noticed though that my husband perceives the flavour of sesame oil as somewhat sweet.

liuzhou

liuzhou

Posted
Posted

On average, one tablespoon of dark soy sauce contains 879 milligrams of sodium. Whereas regular soy sauce contains 1000 mg.

...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

FeChef

FeChef

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, heidih said:

I think Lite & light get conflated in American minds. Barbara Tropp turned me onto Pearl River Mushroom soy which I used to stock as a different flavor.

I stopped messing around with dark soy sauces, LKK Oyster sauce blows any dark soy sauce flavor out of the water. Make sure you get the "premium bottle" Any recipe that calls for dark soy sauce, i substitute 1:1 LKK Oyster sauce.

Edited by FeChef (log)
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MaryIsobel

MaryIsobel

Posted
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Posted
3 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

On average, one tablespoon of dark soy sauce contains 879 milligrams of sodium. Whereas regular soy sauce contains 1000 mg.

Interesting - pretty minor difference.

 

FeChef

FeChef

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, MaryIsobel said:

Interesting - pretty minor difference.

 

Yep. Dark soy sauce is a waste of money and flavor. You can achieve so much more umami flavor with LKK premium Oyster sauce as a 1:1 ratio subsititute.

Edited by FeChef (log)
liuzhou

liuzhou

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, FeChef said:

Yep. Dark soy sauce is a waste of money and flavor. You can achieve so much more umami flavor with LKK premium Oyster sauce as a 1:1 ratio subsititute.

 

Nonsense. Dark soy sauce is widely used in Chinese cooking for colour, as I said. Colour is just as important as flavour in Chinese cuisine. It isn't used for flavour.

Maybe a waste in American cuisine.

LKK is the Heinz of China. Low grade. And oyster sauce is Cantonese, which accounts for about 4% of China.

 

 

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...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

liuzhou

liuzhou

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, MaryIsobel said:

Interesting - pretty minor difference.

 

 

Yeah. But it is used in much smaller doses than light.

...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

FeChef

FeChef

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

Nonsense. Dark soy sauce is widely used in Chinese cooking for colour, as I said. Colour is just as important as flavour in Chinese cuisine. It isn't used for flavour.

Maybe a waste in American cuisine.

LKK is the Heinz of China. Low grade. And oyster sauce is Cantonese, which accounts for about 4% of China.

 

 

LKK sells a cheap version, but their Premium is very good. Funny story, i am at the asian market and theres a "old chinese man " looking for oyster sauce, they were out of premium LKK oyster sauce, and thats what he wanted. I was digging around and found two bottles. I gave him one, and took the other. So maybe you are spoiled living in china, but you failed to even mention a better brand, so im taking your post with a grain of salt.

liuzhou

liuzhou

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, FeChef said:

LKK sells a cheap version, but their Premium is very good. Funny story, i am at the asian market and theres a "old chinese man " looking for oyster sauce, they were out of premium LKK oyster sauce, and thats what he wanted. I was digging around and found two bottles. I gave him one, and took the other. So maybe you are spoiled living in china, but you failed to even mention a better brand, so im taking your post with a grain of salt.

 

The brands I would recommend are probably not available where you are, although Pearl River is much more respected and is widely available in the US as you have said.

My point is that dark and light soy sauce are two different things of equal value, but different functions. Apples and oranges tofu.

...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

MaryIsobel

MaryIsobel

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted
1 hour ago, liuzhou said:

 

Yeah. But it is used in much smaller doses than light.

I appreciate you sharing your (trusted) knowledge. Thanks for taking the time.

Deephaven

Deephaven

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

In China 'light soy sauce' is the norm, too. Low sodium sauce is clearly marked as such.

As I stated above; however, to make sure we don't confuse the OP I will repeat it.  In Japanese recipes dark soy = normal, is no label of dark.  Light soy however is labelled.  Dark Japanese soy is more akin to light Chinese than dark.  It is different but that substitution is way better than subbing Chinese dark .

 

Personally I never sub Chinese for Japanese products nor Thai or others.  So many great soy sauces you should have them all.

Edited by Deephaven (log)
weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, liuzhou said:

On average, one tablespoon of dark soy sauce contains 879 milligrams of sodium. Whereas regular soy sauce contains 1000 mg.

 

The dark mushroom soy I have currently contains a lot more sodium...

 

IMG_0425.jpeg.d6561637b78434a67ac6a08e8675dc78.jpeg

 

IMG_0426.jpeg.1111ec4b15d165f591db1c1b9c0990f3.jpeg

 

I use it "sparingly."  

 

Quote

Most people think that dark soy sauce has less salt than regular soy sauce. However, dark soy sauce actually has about 15% more sodium than regular/light soy sauce. Its mild sweetness offsets the saltiness, making it only seem less salty.

 

https://thewoksoflife.com/dark-soy-sauce/

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted

I realize that you don't believe anyone but yourself. However, there are other sources (and I only put woks of life in there to aggravate you - it seems to have worked!).

 

Quote

Dark soy sauce should look and pour like warmed molasses. It is very strong and very salty, so use this only in dishes like braises to add a touch of color and flavor.

 

https://www.eater.com/23053390/guide-to-buying-chinese-soy-sauce

 

https://themalamarket.com/products/zhongba-dark-soy-sauce-naturally-brewed

 

10 hours ago, liuzhou said:

LKK is the Heinz of China.

 

This makes zero sense, considering Heinz has always made what everyone else strives to achieve when making ketchup. And with other good-quality products.

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

rotuts

rotuts

Posted
Posted (edited)

@weinoo 

 

Chinese food has a rep. to being healthy

 

but its packed w fat , the cheaper the better

 

and massive amour of sodium.

 

over time , quite lethal 

Edited by rotuts (log)
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dcarch

dcarch

Posted
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, rotuts said:

@weinoo 

 

Chinese food has a rep. to being healthy

 

but its packed w fat , the cheaper the better

 

and massive amour of fat.

 

over time , quite lethal 

 

It seems to me they do use a lot of vegetable oil for stir frying not fat. 

They don't use cheese, cream, etc in cooking.

May be that explains why Asians on the average, lives 7 year longer than other ethnic groups. 

Also, obesity is not a common problem in Asian societies.

 

dcarch

Edited by dcarch (log)
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