Dark soya sauce?

[MaryIsobel]

Want to make this recipe for Yaki Udon with shrimp tonight. https://www.chilitochoc.com/yaki-udon-with-shrimps/

Neither grocery in town had "dark" soya sauce labelled as such. I struggle when making Japanese or Chinese food that is not too salty for our taste. I searched for this on Egullet and came up with this:  ran out of the dark soya sauce, so I used molasses instead..not much difference in the taste. When reading about dark soya I understand that it is saltier than light or regular soya sauce. The recipe has regular soy sauce and oyster sauce so I am already concerned about the saltiness but molasses just seems wrong. Any suggestions on what to sub for the dark soy sauce? (Liuzhou, I can hear you rolling your eyes!)

Edited September 28, 2023 by MaryIsobel (log)

[Deephaven]

Japanese dark soy sauce is normal, they mark the other "light".  Careful as well, not "lite" as that is usually low sodium.  Other Asian countries do it differently.

That being said in that recipe that is a substitution as well and imo you should have a bottle of mirin as the rice vinegar sub won't work.

[MaryIsobel]

7 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

Japanese dark soy sauce is normal, they mark the other "light".  Careful as well, not "lite" as that is usually low sodium.  Other Asian countries do it differently.

That being said in that recipe that is a substitution as well and imo you should have a bottle of mirin as the rice vinegar sub won't work.

I do have mirin, just not sure about the dark soya sauce.

[blue_dolphin]

I agree with @Deephaven that  regular Japanese soy sauce and mirin sound better than dark soy sauce and rice vinegar.  
Chinese dark soy sauce tends to be a little less salty and a bit sweeter than light soy sauce, used more for that dark color

Edited September 28, 2023 by blue_dolphin (log)

[heidih]

Yes the always on the shelf Kikkoman soy is the standard for my Japanese friends. The vinegar for mirin sub agreed not on point - just balance taste with touch of sugar. That molasses thing sounds more like a sub for kecap manis https://www.daringgourmet.com/homemade-kecap-manis-indonesian-sweet-soy-sauce/ Love Udon nodle texture.Have fun

[liuzhou]

3 hours ago, MaryIsobel said:

When reading about dark soya I understand that it is saltier than light or regular soya sauce.

 

🙄🙄🙄

 

It's the other way round. Dark is less salty and mainly used for colour.

 

Molasses sounds totally wrong to me, although some cheap (and nasty) brands do add molasses to their recipe. Too sweet. Can you find mushroom soy sauce? If not, Kikkoman is technically more akin to a dark soy sauce than to light.

 

I agree that rice vinegar is not a substitute for mirin, but I don't agree that the vinegar in the recipe is being used as a substitute. It is surely being used to give a hint of acid to balance the rest of the sauce, which you wouldn't get from mirin.

 

Now I'm going to put my eyes back in and have a long lie down.

Good luck with the recipe. It sounds fine.

Edited September 29, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

2 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Japanese dark soy sauce is normal, they mark the other "light".  Careful as well, not "lite" as that is usually low sodium.  Other Asian countries do it differently.

 

In China 'light soy sauce' is the norm, too. Low sodium sauce is clearly marked as such.

[FeChef]

I only buy Pearl River Bridge soy sauce. I will be honest, and i can't tell the difference between their light soy sauce and their dark soy sauce in terms of sodium. I think its mainly to add dark color and a "subtle sweetness" Its not noticable like Kecap manis aka ABC sweet soy sauce.

[heidih]

I think Lite & light get conflated in American minds. Barbara Tropp turned me onto Pearl River Mushroom soy which I used to stock as a different flavor.

[MaryIsobel]

All good tips - thank you. The Yaki Udon turned out okay, given that I have nothing to compare it too. My nephew proclaimed it excellent, my husband said it was good but a bit sweet. There were 2 tsp of brown sugar in the recipe. I have noticed though that my husband perceives the flavour of sesame oil as somewhat sweet.

[liuzhou]

On average, one tablespoon of dark soy sauce contains 879 milligrams of sodium. Whereas regular soy sauce contains 1000 mg.

[FeChef]

1 hour ago, heidih said:

I think Lite & light get conflated in American minds. Barbara Tropp turned me onto Pearl River Mushroom soy which I used to stock as a different flavor.

I stopped messing around with dark soy sauces, LKK Oyster sauce blows any dark soy sauce flavor out of the water. Make sure you get the "premium bottle" Any recipe that calls for dark soy sauce, i substitute 1:1 LKK Oyster sauce.

Edited September 29, 2023 by FeChef (log)

[MaryIsobel]

3 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

On average, one tablespoon of dark soy sauce contains 879 milligrams of sodium. Whereas regular soy sauce contains 1000 mg.

Interesting - pretty minor difference.

 

[FeChef]

3 minutes ago, MaryIsobel said:

Interesting - pretty minor difference.

 

Yep. Dark soy sauce is a waste of money and flavor. You can achieve so much more umami flavor with LKK premium Oyster sauce as a 1:1 ratio subsititute.

Edited September 29, 2023 by FeChef (log)

[liuzhou]

10 minutes ago, FeChef said:

Yep. Dark soy sauce is a waste of money and flavor. You can achieve so much more umami flavor with LKK premium Oyster sauce as a 1:1 ratio subsititute.

 

Nonsense. Dark soy sauce is widely used in Chinese cooking for colour, as I said. Colour is just as important as flavour in Chinese cuisine. It isn't used for flavour.

Maybe a waste in American cuisine.

LKK is the Heinz of China. Low grade. And oyster sauce is Cantonese, which accounts for about 4% of China.

 

 

[liuzhou]

25 minutes ago, MaryIsobel said:

Interesting - pretty minor difference.

 

 

Yeah. But it is used in much smaller doses than light.

[FeChef]

13 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

Nonsense. Dark soy sauce is widely used in Chinese cooking for colour, as I said. Colour is just as important as flavour in Chinese cuisine. It isn't used for flavour.

Maybe a waste in American cuisine.

LKK is the Heinz of China. Low grade. And oyster sauce is Cantonese, which accounts for about 4% of China.

 

 

LKK sells a cheap version, but their Premium is very good. Funny story, i am at the asian market and theres a "old chinese man " looking for oyster sauce, they were out of premium LKK oyster sauce, and thats what he wanted. I was digging around and found two bottles. I gave him one, and took the other. So maybe you are spoiled living in china, but you failed to even mention a better brand, so im taking your post with a grain of salt.

[liuzhou]

1 minute ago, FeChef said:

LKK sells a cheap version, but their Premium is very good. Funny story, i am at the asian market and theres a "old chinese man " looking for oyster sauce, they were out of premium LKK oyster sauce, and thats what he wanted. I was digging around and found two bottles. I gave him one, and took the other. So maybe you are spoiled living in china, but you failed to even mention a better brand, so im taking your post with a grain of salt.

 

The brands I would recommend are probably not available where you are, although Pearl River is much more respected and is widely available in the US as you have said.

My point is that dark and light soy sauce are two different things of equal value, but different functions. Apples and oranges tofu.

[MaryIsobel]

1 hour ago, liuzhou said:

 

Yeah. But it is used in much smaller doses than light.

I appreciate you sharing your (trusted) knowledge. Thanks for taking the time.

[Deephaven]

11 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

In China 'light soy sauce' is the norm, too. Low sodium sauce is clearly marked as such.

As I stated above; however, to make sure we don't confuse the OP I will repeat it.  In Japanese recipes dark soy = normal, is no label of dark.  Light soy however is labelled.  Dark Japanese soy is more akin to light Chinese than dark.  It is different but that substitution is way better than subbing Chinese dark .

 

Personally I never sub Chinese for Japanese products nor Thai or others.  So many great soy sauces you should have them all.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Deephaven (log)

[weinoo]

9 hours ago, liuzhou said:

On average, one tablespoon of dark soy sauce contains 879 milligrams of sodium. Whereas regular soy sauce contains 1000 mg.

 

The dark mushroom soy I have currently contains a lot more sodium...

 

 

 

I use it "sparingly."  

 

Quote

Most people think that dark soy sauce has less salt than regular soy sauce. However, dark soy sauce actually has about 15% more sodium than regular/light soy sauce. Its mild sweetness offsets the saltiness, making it only seem less salty.

 

https://thewoksoflife.com/dark-soy-sauce/

[liuzhou]

Ah. The Woks of Strife! I wouldn't trust them to cook rice!

 

Mushroom flavoured soy sauce is a whole other thing.

 

https://www.nutritionix.com/food/dark-soy-sauce

[weinoo]

I realize that you don't believe anyone but yourself. However, there are other sources (and I only put woks of life in there to aggravate you - it seems to have worked!).

 

Quote

Dark soy sauce should look and pour like warmed molasses. It is very strong and very salty, so use this only in dishes like braises to add a touch of color and flavor.

 

https://www.eater.com/23053390/guide-to-buying-chinese-soy-sauce

 

https://themalamarket.com/products/zhongba-dark-soy-sauce-naturally-brewed

 

10 hours ago, liuzhou said:

LKK is the Heinz of China.

 

This makes zero sense, considering Heinz has always made what everyone else strives to achieve when making ketchup. And with other good-quality products.

[rotuts]

@weinoo 

 

Chinese food has a rep. to being healthy

 

but its packed w fat , the cheaper the better

 

and massive amour of sodium.

 

over time , quite lethal 

Edited September 29, 2023 by rotuts (log)

[dcarch]

42 minutes ago, rotuts said:

@weinoo 

 

Chinese food has a rep. to being healthy

 

but its packed w fat , the cheaper the better

 

and massive amour of fat.

 

over time , quite lethal 

 

It seems to me they do use a lot of vegetable oil for stir frying not fat. 

They don't use cheese, cream, etc in cooking.

May be that explains why Asians on the average, lives 7 year longer than other ethnic groups. 

Also, obesity is not a common problem in Asian societies.

 

dcarch

Edited September 29, 2023 by dcarch (log)