Sourdough flavour, for those who can't keep the culture alive?

[TdeV]

Just had a marvellous al fresco dinner of bread and cheese. No nearby bakery produces sourdough baguettes which would have tasted even better.

 

Occurs to me that I could learn how to make my own baguettes.

 

I have successfully made focaccia with an overnight biga. Also make pizza with low yeast and a 3-7 day rest in the fridge. The bread tastes much, much better with a bit of fermentation. But I've had zero success keeping a sourdough culture alive, even after several starts.

 

So I'd like help discovering information about short-term fermentations to add to bread, which don't require keeping the culture alive in the fridge; I don't even know what to search for.

 

[lemniscate]

There's this.  Not a ferment, but adds the flavor I guess.

[lemniscate]

Also, I hate the traditional sourdough maintenance.   A lot of the mythology about maintaining starters are from a pre-refrigeration time.  I follow Our Gabled Home's drier storage method and have relatively healthy starter to use when I need.    Haven't had a bad outcome yet and been doing it for 2-3 years.  

 

Youtube video of technique.

[weinoo]

14 hours ago, TdeV said:

So I'd like help discovering information about short-term fermentations to add to bread, which don't require keeping the culture alive in the fridge; I don't even know what to search for.

 

 

You've got the biga, and have you tried a poolish?

Edited May 1, 2023 by weinoo (log)

[kayb]

I’m wondering if you made a biga with kefir, how that’d do?

[TdeV]

Gonna have to find out what it all means first. 🙂

[Tropicalsenior]

I don't know if this is in the line of what you want, but I have been making a mock sourdough for years. It was the recipe that I had for my bread maker and since I no longer have a bread maker I hadn't made it in quite a while. I decided to dig out the recipe and make it the other day to see if it was as good as I really remembered and it was.

You don't get quite the rise that you get with just plain white bread but you do have a definite sour flavor. The advantage is that it can be made in the same time as plain white sandwich bread. If you would like to have the recipe to try let me know.

[Smithy]

2 hours ago, Tropicalsenior said:

If you would like to have the recipe to try let me know.

 

There are at least two of us who are interested! Any chance you can post it to RecipeGullet, or is it copyrihted?

[Tropicalsenior]

5 minutes ago, Smithy said:

or is it copyrihted?

I'm sure it's not copyrighted, it's been in my files for years but I don't remember where I got it. I'll post it just as soon as I get it reformatted.

[Maison Rustique]

17 hours ago, Smithy said:

 

There are at least two of us who are interested! Any chance you can post it to RecipeGullet, or is it copyrihted?

Make that three!

[Tropicalsenior]

I just posted the recipe for Mock Sourdough Bread. I included both versions, the bread machine version that I used to make and the recipe that I adapted to my KitchenAid mixer. I added vital wheat gluten to my flour because I cannot get a good bread flour here. If you make it, let me know how it comes out and if you like it.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Tropicalsenior (log)

[TdeV]

Ooh, bread machine. Excellent @Tropicalsenior! Thanks.

 

Edited to add: Will update you on my progress. 😀

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by TdeV (log)

[paulraphael]

I find it takes close to no effort to keep a sourdough culture alive. It might vary from one culture to another, I don't know. I bought the Ischia Island starter from Sourdoughs International (popular with Neapolitan pizza people), and it's basically indestructible. I've neglected it for 6 months and it's bounced right back.

 

What I've discovered is that if you keep it in the fridge it goes dormant. To wake it up, bring it to room temp, feed it, and it's lively again in half a day. If you keep it dormant without feeding for more than a week or two, it goes extra dormant. More like comatose. It will still bounce back, but takes a couple of feedings over 24 hours.

 

Another approach people use for mock sourdough is to use the culture as a seasoning ingredient. It doesn't even have to be active. This is a good use for portions that you're planning to toss during the usual feeding cycle.

 

For this purpose, if you use 100% hydration like I do, you just treat the culture as a substitute for equal parts flour and liquid in your recipe. Maybe keep it to 20% of the recipe weight at first and see how it goes. When you do this, you'll need to some other form of leavening. Commercial yeast for bread.  

[jedovaty]

There was a recipe on TFL that provided a sourdough flavor by adding acetic and lacid acids.  I wish I kept the bookmark, it was a super easy, bread-machine compatible recipe.  I did find this one looking for it, though I'm not sure that was it, been a long time and the date of that recipe is 2021 (I remember reading in 2016 or 2017).  I'm also not sure how the vinegar would actually work, I have tried it in my pie dough and some dairy-free brownie recipies and never taste any acetic acid.  I'd also be worried about the flour becoming overly extensible.  That said, the dude on that forum has had success so might be worth a shot.  I've got lactic acid powder and plenty of vinegar at home so maybe I'll give this a go and report back.

 

You can also consider making sourdough bread using yeast-water from something like raisins.  It takes a little bit of prep work, and you'll get the more lactic-acid sourness (e.g. yogurt) and probably no acetic-acid flavors.

Edited May 11, 2023 by jedovaty (log)

[lindag]

On 4/30/2023 at 2:07 PM, TdeV said:

Just had a marvellous al fresco dinner of bread and cheese. No nearby bakery produces sourdough baguettes which would have tasted even better.

 

Occurs to me that I could learn how to make my own baguettes.

 

I have successfully made focaccia with an overnight biga. Also make pizza with low yeast and a 3-7 day rest in the fridge. The bread tastes much, much better with a bit of fermentation. But I've had zero success keeping a sourdough culture alive, even after several starts.

 

So I'd like help discovering information about short-term fermentations to add to bread, which don't require keeping the culture alive in the fridge; I don't even know what to search for.

 

I just started a  new sourdough starter that is utterly amazing.

here.

It is so vigorous that it was ready to use very quickly (I think it was within the 2nd day).  Directions are included.

It seems really easy to maintain as well.

I've tried many commercial starters as well as  creating my own but this one beats  them all.

 

[ElsieD]

I was in a bulk food store the other day and noticed a bin full of "Sourdough Bread Machine Flour Mix".   Just add water, this mix and a bit of yeast to your machine and that's it.

[lindag]

Also available here

and here

Edited May 11, 2023 by lindag (log)

[AlaMoi]

yeast is pretty dang sturdy stuff . . .

while back I did a 10(?) day buckwheat pancake starter ala' my/our grandmother (in the 60's) - worked splendidly....  cousins were into it for seconds....  apparently buckwheat pancakes with homegrown yeast starter be still a thing.... 

altho.... they all turned down the black strap molasses and went for real maple syrup instead . . . . wimps were them, mused I . . .

 

has anyone tried freezing 'starter' in ice cube tray size for later use?

 

seems would be pretty low maintenance method . . .

[TdeV]

@AlaMoi, I have heard of drying the starter which can later be re-started with water. But from where? I'll do some research and report back.

[paulraphael]

2 hours ago, TdeV said:

@AlaMoi, I have heard of drying the starter which can later be re-started with water. But from where? I'll do some research and report back.

 

This is definitely a thing. If you buy a culture from Sourdoughs International it comes dried. I also dried some of mine later to keep as emergency backup. I think I spread it thin on a Silpat, and then broke it off and sealed in a plastic bag. There are probably better instructions online.

[Maison Rustique]

You can get a free dried starter from the 1800s here. You just send a SASE to them. I haven't tried it, but keep saying I will.

[lemniscate]

Townsend's did a video on salt preserving "old dough" and waking it back up.  It's fascinating.

[Tropicalsenior]

Some time ago I came across this video from Baking with Jack that is one of the darndest methods of keeping sourdough starter that I have seen. I haven't tried it but it seems like a good idea because you don't have excess starter that you either have to throw away or try to find a way to use up. When you first listen to the guy, he seems kind of obnoxious but he really does know what he's talking about. I've watched quite a few of his videos and I've learned a lot. And as someone else said above, it is pretty hard to kill good starter. I once saw an Argentinian Baker on YouTube pull out the most disgusting jar of starter that he had deliberately let set for over 6 months and revive it. I hope it's true because I'm going to try to revive my disgusting little jar that's been in the refrigerator for about 6 weeks.

I'll let you know what happens.

[Tropicalsenior]

49 minutes ago, Tropicalsenior said:

Baking with Jack

Just found this video that explains his method a little bit better.

[AlaMoi]

. . . .this video . . .

well, that really nothing different than saving a chunk of starter from one week to the next - as bakers have been doing for literally centuries.

once you have a starter going, and using it regularly, there is no need for the 'add&discard' bashed in the video. 

you can make your own starter - it takes about ten days, and 'from scratch' does 'require' the add&discard routine to build up the yeast colony in the starter.

 

the issue whot occurs to me:  how many people are baking a sourdough loaf every week?

I see posts where people produce stunningly beautiful loaves - 3,4,5,,,, we can't eat that much bread in a week . . . it's a reality issue....

 

one can buy a sourdough starter packet/powder . . . well, thinking that will continue to produce 'genuine SF sourdough' is not exactly correct.  for many years the theory was 'wild yeasts' drifting through the atmosphere and into your kitchen were responsible for "flavor drift."  now that the DNA types have joined the fray, seems yeasts in/on the flour itself are responsible.

 

another batch of scientists recovered - and propagated - yeast from multi-thousand year old Egyptian tombs, then brewed "the real beer of the Pharaohs . . ." - and promptly pronounced it 'terrible beer'

 

so, , , , yeast is really sturdy stuff, which put me onto the idea of freezing a starter for multi-week/month later use. . . . like - make your starter, keep it in the freezer for (pre-planning req'd) - dang good sourdough 'as needed'

put some saved bits of the last loaves in the freezer for next 'as needed' . . .

Edited May 13, 2023 by AlaMoi (log)