Dirty Water Dogs, Days Gone By

[scott123]

I have many fond food related memories, but, one of my fondest was eating hot dogs on the steps of the Museum of Natural History as a child.  I can't remember exactly how old I was.  If I had to guess, maybe 10, but... I distinctly remember having 3 hot dogs and still being hungry, so maybe I was a little older.

 

These dogs were long, very thin, darkly colored, pretty garlic-y, and bursting with flavor.  At the time, I didn't know what natural casing was, but I'm pretty sure they had the distinctive snap. It kind of felt like this hot dog was the NY archetype for this 1980ish era, although I probably didn't consume enough of them (maybe once every two months) to have my finger on the pulse. For years, I mistakenly assumed that the cart's Sabrett umbrella meant something, but now I know that the umbrella had no connection to the brand of dogs they were buying.

 

As I've grown older, for a long time I assumed that these were wholesale dogs that the public didn't have access to, so I didn't even look for them.   Eventually I figured out what natural casing was and tried every brand that I could.  Not only did nothing match up, but, anything that, at the time, might have been close, over 40 or so years, has evolved further and further away as intensively flavored garlic-y hot dogs have fallen out of fashion (case in point, Hebrew National).

 

It might sound like I'm looking for help, but, really, I'm just lamenting.  I don't think I'm ever going to repeat that experience.  And, just to be clear, this isn't about viewing the past through rose colored glasses.  I worship at the bagel altar just as fastidiously as the hot dog altar, and I'm confident that I can walk into one of my favorite bagel places tomorrow and experience the same bliss I might have experienced decades ago.  But not hot dogs.

Edited March 11, 2023 by scott123 (log)

[weinoo]

2 hours ago, scott123 said:

And, just to be clear, this isn't about viewing the past through rose colored glasses. 

 

It might be...just a little.

Back when you're talking about, most Jewish-style delis (and there were a number of Jewish delis in that area) had a griddle -always had franks and knishes on the griddle.

 

In any event, Katz's griddled dogs aren't bad, and for the real garlicky stuff you gotta get their knockwurst.  

 

At home, I've found these dogs to be pretty good...Brooklyn Hot Dog Co.

On occasion, I've been able to buy Nathan's hot dogs with natural casings.

 

Buy some Martin's potato buns, boil the franks, and it's almost like being at the museum.

 

Pro move - "pan boil" the franks in about an inch of water, let it evaporate and get a little color on the dogs.

[Katie Meadow]

Okay, this is going way out on a limb. Since it might be considered recent memory, which may have more in common with short-term memory, it's possible that I am completely mistaken. Maybe 8 or 10 years ago I was in NY for a visit and remember stopping for a hot dog at a cart on the block of the Museum of Natural History. It was the best hot dog ever, although I'm no expert. But I remember at the time noticing that it was not a dirty water dog, but rather grilled. Are there any carts that grill, now or in the past? Am I crazy?

 

Between the slices and the dogs I'm swamped in primordial ooze. I miss that museum, a lot just now.

[weinoo]

10 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

Am I crazy?

 

Who are we to judge?

[KennethT]

In my neighborhood, most of the hot dog carts are actually Middle Eastern carts that also do kebab, etc, so yes, those dogs are grilled. I haven't noticed a true dirty water dog carts in my neighborhood in a long time.

[Katie Meadow]

1 hour ago, KennethT said:

In my neighborhood, most of the hot dog carts are actually Middle Eastern carts that also do kebab, etc, so yes, those dogs are grilled. I haven't noticed a true dirty water dog carts in my neighborhood in a long time.

Yes!! Now I pretty much need a grilled hot dog tonight. Rain or no rain.

[Katie Meadow]

And so I did. Instead of a hot dog bun we made burritos, with rice, very mustardy slaw, pickled jalapeños, flour tortillas and, of course, dogs charred on the grill. Always good.  Too hard to find decent hot dog buns.

[Midlife]

29 minutes ago, Katie Meadow said:

And so I did. Instead of a hot dog bun we made burritos, with rice, very mustardy slaw, pickled jalapeños, flour tortillas and, of course, dogs charred on the grill. Always good.  Too hard to find decent hot dog buns.

Indeed!  Most supermarket hot dog buns are limp, useless things. I’ll often use a flour tortilla (TJ’s are almost like pitas) or a thin baguette cut up. 

[weinoo]

2 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

And so I did. Instead of a hot dog bun we made burritos, with rice, very mustardy slaw, pickled jalapeños, flour tortillas and, of course, dogs charred on the grill. Always good.  Too hard to find decent hot dog buns.

 

1 hour ago, Midlife said:

Indeed!  Most supermarket hot dog buns are limp, useless things. I’ll often use a flour tortilla (TJ’s are almost like pitas) or a thin baguette cut up. 

 

If you have to use a tortilla or are making burritos to have what you think is a proper hot dog, you're just not trying hard enough.

[Kim Shook]

For me a burrito dog is good, but doesn't scratch the same hot dog itch that a dog on a bun satisfies.  And I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to hot dog buns.  Like BBQ, I like a fairly light, fluffy bun that is simple and doesn't impart a lot of its own flavor to the experience.  I don't really want a pretzel bun or a sourdough bun or even a Chicago poppyseed bun.  A potato bun is as far as I'll generally go.  Keep in mind that I'm talking ONLY about hot dogs - a sausage on a bun is a whole other animal and all different buns are welcome.  

[Katie Meadow]

50 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

 

If you have to use a tortilla or are making burritos to have what you think is a proper hot dog, you're just not trying hard enough.

Just because I craved a proper cart-grilled NY  hot dog does not mean I can get one.  The buns suck, as noted above. No time to make sauerkraut, as if I ever would. And yo! Trying hard has never been my idea of grabbing a hot dog. In fact yesterday was the opposite of trying hard. Between sleeping in late as a result of DST and all the NYT puzzles and sections I was far too lazy. But, Mitch, you're so right. 

[weinoo]

5 minutes ago, Katie Meadow said:

Just because I craved a proper cart-grilled NY  hot dog does not mean I can get one.  The buns suck, as noted above. No time to make sauerkraut, as if I ever would. And yo! Trying hard has never been my idea of grabbing a hot dog. In fact yesterday was the opposite of trying hard. Between sleeping in late as a result of DST and all the NYT puzzles and sections I was far too lazy. But, Mitch, you're so right. 

 

Were you also looking at pictures of the Museum?

[Katie Meadow]

10 minutes ago, Kim Shook said:

For me a burrito dog is good, but doesn't scratch the same hot dog itch that a dog on a bun satisfies.  And I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to hot dog buns.  Like BBQ, I like a fairly light, fluffy bun that is simple and doesn't impart a lot of its own flavor to the experience.  I don't really want a pretzel bun or a sourdough bun or even a Chicago poppyseed bun.  A potato bun is as far as I'll generally go.  Keep in mind that I'm talking ONLY about hot dogs - a sausage on a bun is a whole other animal and all different buns are welcome.  

I totally agree with everything you are saying! But my mixed up burrito was really good!

[Katie Meadow]

1 minute ago, weinoo said:

 

Were you also looking at pictures of the Museum?

No, just missing the giant whale, the bird hall and what's left of childhood's end. 

[weinoo]

30 minutes ago, Katie Meadow said:

No, just missing the giant whale, the bird hall and what's left of childhood's end. 

 

Ain't we all...

 

 

 

https://www.amnh.org/

[scott123]

On 3/11/2023 at 7:01 PM, weinoo said:

In any event, Katz's griddled dogs aren't bad, and for the real garlicky stuff you gotta get their knockwurst.

Knockwurst would change the dog to bun ratio.  One of the things I loved most about this museum dog was the skinny dog buried in a mountain of bun.  Loved it, but, also was a bit miffed about the horrendous value.  Did I mention eating three and still being hungry?

 

It's kind of funny, my other all time peak food moment involved a questionable value as well.  Joe's Pizzeria, circa 1990.  Best pizza I've ever had, but SO stingy with the cheese.  It's no exaggeration... 70% coverage, at best. To this day, I've never seen less cheese on a slice.

So, both experiences were a mixture of "holy crap this is good!" and "man, these people are ripping me off!"

[weinoo]

14 minutes ago, scott123 said:

So, both experiences were a mixture of "holy crap this is good!" and "man, these people are ripping me off!"

 

"This is good" totally is better than "this sucks, and man these people are ripping me off!"

[scott123]

2 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

No, just missing the giant whale

 

As a child, that whale scared the crap out of me.  And there were other dark, gloomy areas that would give me the heebie jeebies as well.  Just about every time I went, it was a beeline to the gem room.

[scott123]

7 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

"This is good" totally is better than "this sucks, and man these people are ripping me off!"

 

True, I'm just speaking to the complexity of the experience.  Resentfully ecstatic on both occasions.

[Midlife]

On 3/13/2023 at 11:48 AM, weinoo said:

 

 

If you have to use a tortilla or are making burritos to have what you think is a proper hot dog, you're just not trying hard enough.

 I think you’ll need to explain further. The bread here is, for me, really just the vehicle to hold the dog, so it’s not that big a deal….. unless I find myself somewhere I can find a brioche or maybe a pretzel bun (NOT at most of my local markets). I just find supermarket hot dog buns to be like folding a piece of white bread around the dog. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Midlife (log)

[heidih]

1 hour ago, Midlife said:

 I think you’ll need to explain further. The bread here is, for me, really just the vehicle to hold the dog, so it’s not that big a deal….. unless I find myself somewhere I can find a brioche or maybe a pretzel bun (NOT at most of my local markets). I just find supermarket hot dog buns to be like folding a piece of white bread around the dog. 

I can not wrap - playing wth words - my mind around a tortilla and a dog as any level of nostalgic food. Supermarket buns I'll agree can be wimpy and ya try to toast them and the sugar content >>>burn. still I want the classic contrast of a soft bread just sturdy enough to hold the toppings and I prefer a dirty water or boiled steamed pup. My dad's company supplied Wienerschnitzel in the early days so that is my taste memory. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by heidih (log)

[Katie Meadow]

32 minutes ago, heidih said:

I can not wrap - playing wth words - my mind around a tortilla and a dog as any level of nostalgic food. Supermarket buns I'll agree can be wimpy and ya try to toast them and the sugar content >>>burn. still I want the classic contrast of a soft bread just sturdy enough to hold the toppings and I prefer a dirty water or boiled steamed pup. My dad's company supplied Wienerschnitzel in the early days so that is my taste memory. 

By no stretch do I think of a hot dog burrito with mustardy coleslaw as a nostalgia experience. I think of it as a fusion food that I invented! However, it does work for me without trying to be a proper dog and doesn't set me up for the disappointments of a second rate hot dog since it includes neither cart, papaya nor sauerkraut.  

[Anna N]

3 hours ago, Midlife said:

just find supermarket hot dog buns to be like folding a piece of white bread around the dog. 

I would be more than happy if the buns were as sturdy as a slice of white bread! The ones I currently have simply disintegrate.

[weinoo]

On 3/13/2023 at 2:48 PM, weinoo said:

If you have to use a tortilla or are making burritos to have what you think is a proper hot dog, you're just not trying hard enough.

 

11 hours ago, Midlife said:

 I think you’ll need to explain further. The bread here is, for me, really just the vehicle to hold the dog, so it’s not that big a deal….. unless I find myself somewhere I can find a brioche or maybe a pretzel bun (NOT at most of my local markets). I just find supermarket hot dog buns to be like folding a piece of white bread around the dog. 

 

That's like saying all the bread does in a sandwich is hold the filling, when a good sandwich is a melding of all the ingredients - as a matter of fact, there are places in this world where the bread is the most important part of a sandwich.

 

This topic is located in the New York Cooking forum, and is about "dirty water" dogs - a name I've never really applied, and which appears (in this topic) to include not only boiled hot dogs, but griddled and grilled hot dogs as well.

 

I imagine if you asked for your hot dog to be enclosed in a flour tortilla (like, let's say, at Katz's or Grays or Papaya King), they'd be laughing at you, cursing at you, or worse - someone would come out from behind the counter and make you leave.

 

If your hot dog buns are that horrible, disgusting, and bad - there are ways to order good ones on line.  Or simply have the hot dogs on a plate, with some mustard, and call it a day.

[Tropicalsenior]

6 minutes ago, weinoo said:

If your hot dog buns are that horrible, disgusting, and bad - there are ways to order good ones on line.  Or simply have the hot dogs on a plate, with some mustard, and call it a day.

Couldn't agree more. To have a hot dog with the average supermarket bun, you might just as well wrap it in just a piece of white bread. If I'm going to have it as part of a meal, I make my own buns so I can enjoy every part of it. If I'm having a hot dog as a snack, I pop it in the air fryer and eat it plain with just mustard.

You can't make a good sandwich with mediocre bread. Why even have mediocre bread in the house?